I'm reading the arts topic but this is one of the main things in my life that i feel really one way or the other about it, i guess in terms of stability within PMR. I personally have always listened to a lot of music growing up, i wasn't really able to play guitar until 14 and then around 15-16 [im 20 now] i started listening to Hip Hop after pretty much only listening to Rock and Metal up til that point, but i really didn't like the pop-rap stuff from the radio and started listening to more thought out rappers and the people who made the music.

For me personally, vocals are not a necessity for music as much as it is for some people [i do like vocals and singing, i'm not all or against singing but i do like instrumental music], where i notice for my friends, music is just as much as the focus on lyrics, sometimes less on music and more on lyrics but it could be my bias that it's not really my preference, but i do sometimes have to recognize quality on behalf of the overall thing.


I first found Tom by searching the word Metaphysics in youtube and was amazed by how much better his explanation was compared to most that i've heard. I finished the MBT trilogy about 8 months ago and i'm reading it again, but taking long breaks of time as a lot of the more complex digital stuff Tom talked hasn't processed at the being level for me, but also because i've been reading other books i held off on the first time i read it.

One of the points i never considered until reading Tom's books was that Einstein was doing work for technology that barely existed, at least compared to what it's become today.

What i wonder, is, have we gotten to the realization within our reality of our current point of evolution? And if so, will consciousness evolve into something beyond digital?

Are there consequences for creating with reality at the very fabric of itself? Does creating digital art do good or harm? But the question that i think about most is, is music really as great as i think it is?

I would say yes, but sometimes i question these unknown aspects, especially when i'm at work and have to listen to music that i honestly can't stand. I try to let it not bother me as much as possible and hearing Tom explain it pretty recently i've been trying to "be from a detached ego to the noise" place, but i find what i consider bad music that i hear often enough (same exact songs scattered across the week) gets stuck in my head. Sometimes even when listening to music or even if i've spent hours making music of my own. [and i should mention the kind of stuff i like people consider noise, Drum and Bass isn't really big in america]

I noticed sometimes [not always] "bad music" would get stuck in my head when i wasn't particularly excited about anything ["work" mode, i actually realized i like to do work, but i have a hard time finding work that i want to do compared to what i'm doing now, which is really the basis for my skepticism of music as it is something i like to do with my time. (i am trying to get to the digital aspects)]...

...and then if i would do something i was enjoying like meditating [which i don't do often or even as often as i think i should] either cool music someone else made [professionals], something i was making earlier, or a few times even stuff "i" was making, not me because it sounded far better than anything i could come up with, likely the larger consciousness system.



Aside from the bigger questions, that we have no clue on like the impacts of digital creating arts and if they are significant or not, I wonder what the significance of it is here in the little picture and big picture. Is it the next evolutionary step, or are we harnessing more energy than we can handle?


I think events are great. But i do not go to as many events as i like because usually i only want to go see people that i listen to, and even then i've missed a few i really wanted to see, but events themselves are massive and there are times i question if it's too excessive, especially since we are always in these "times of crisis" and worry.


Electronic music, i feel, is the anti worry. I like being able to listen to music with no story or meaning, not because it's meaningless or repetitive [which a lot of people are really put off by the blatant repetitiveness of Electronic music or "Techno" as it's generally considered, and wordless-ness doesn't help]

Many people, especially from the more recent generations, have been able to make music easier than it's ever been to even get the tools to make music, and because of that, the quality of music that is sold to people [and i'm talking about electronic music, piracy is still avid, but i think more people buy music who collect albums and singles] has gone up, or the level of quality has a standard before someone wants to release your material on their behalf.

and speaking of albums, i'd like to know what this board has to say about vinyl records. Vinyl is regarded as the ultimate format in electronic music even though it is vinyl. Many music developing companies have and are pushing the technical boundaries of the equipment being used to make things and to perform, yet there seems to be this attitude among the music community that older sounds better [i mean that in music production terms more so, but i collect vinyl for my favorite albums and tracks] .That's not my view exactly as i really like a lot of people at the current moment, where in rock music almost everyone i ever wanted to see was dead or no longer active or they hated each other, etc...


The stability issue i raised earlier on makes me wonder that as much as i love all this stuff, why can we do this while wars go on and famine and other bad things that happen on a large scale, not to mention we seem to barely be able to manage our energy and it's sources [free energy would be awesome, i sometimes think maybe that's why AUM studies itself]. Are we doing any good by having fun? I heard Tom say "just for fun doesn't imply useless" but because i don't make a living off doing what i like to, it is insignificant to anyone else...not that i ask them for it to be, that's just a summation of my subjective interpretation of what my family and friends think, and usually outside of that i don't tell people i make music. But my question has more to do with the stability of the planet and environment more than my own life


I could keep going on this but i've written a lot, this is basically my focus on life. I started making electronic music before i got into spirituality and knowing about a bigger picture, even though i've been heavily influenced by things that where and are about the bigger picture. When i make music now i really don't try to fit in a spiritual theme, i don't feel the need to tell people about it as much as i did when i first got into spiritual stuff and didn't know what i was really talking about. I'd like to know what others think


...sorry i wrote so much

and i've also heard what Tom said about the guy who plays Beethoven and Acid Rock and how one person's intent creates a different outcome, but i haven't heard much other insight on the subject, and don't know exactly how that applies to my situation other than that i love music that a lot of people really don't care for.

psynce,

Welcome to the board. Glad you like music. There is however a lot you are missing. Have you ever listened to Bach's Art of the Fugue or the symphonies of Beethoven or others? What about Gregorian Chant? What about a real pipe organ in a large cathedral heard first hand and playing a significant piece? They can take you to places that you will never get to with percussion and an electric guitar with a big amp. Just as Tom can take you to places, understandings, you will never reach through rap music by anyone. It's all available to some extent on the Internet.

Vinyl recordings as a mystique exists, just as there have been factions that say that tube type amplifiers provide better sound than transistorized amplifiers. The truth is that you can truly reproduce a sound without distortion or noise better with digital transcription as on a CD than any of the old technology can create. Where digital electronics falls behind is when approximations are made by using size reduction technology to create smaller files for cramming more music on a portable device.

Ted

There where some loose ends in my post, i can't say i've actively listened to much classical as it really doesn't appeal to me, there is one piece that i forget the title of at the moment i really liked because it was very atmospheric, but generally i'm not too interested in the people that most people consider fundamental to listening to music. I think if i ever get to it on my own i'll appreciate it more but at the moment i feel like there is so much music i don't listen to and music and artists i'm aware of. I respect Gregorian Chanting as i know how fun and good it feels to hum and chant, even though they are doing it on another level compared to me.

this i think can be relevant to any performance in an open environment. if everything is just information than i don't see how a warm church organ in a big cathedral is different than a DJ doing a mix [which a mix is not as "press play and enjoy" as most people make it seem, at least the people who really try to do something] playing tracks that people spend hours upon hours and hours and hours working on coming from a festival or club.


The reason i ask about vinyl is because i really don't want to see it's presence disappear as it seems to be a good idea to have analog and digital equipment instead of just one or the other. Playing something really loud at your house may not sound much different than at a reasonable volume, but as the amplitude increases at places like concerts and festivals, the more distinguishable it's quality is.



Very much so, but there are different bit depths for digital files. The standard a track should be played on a really good soundsystem should be no less than 320 kbps, at least. WAV's are something like 1,1500 kbps maybe.

Vinyl is a physical piece of information containing the information [song], and will have a higher quality bit depth than a digital mp3.


There is a sort of warmness to analog technology that digital doesn't have on it's own. I've used a few hardware digital synthesizers and had 1 and still have a sample based synth and have a lot of digital software synths, and it is much harder to create the warm "alive" tone that seems effortless to analog synths, and just as well for a DJ who plays a whole set using digital tracks and a DJ who does their set with vinyl. The eminence of the performer differs by their format even though it is somewhat trivial and makes little difference to the general music listeners.

I'm not saying i like one more than the other, but it seems like companies try to phase out technology that people seem to like [because they are not financially profitable]

The reference to a pipe organ in a cathedral as a special experience is on the basis that a proper organ with its large number of ranks of pipes and many voices, if they have a range of registers will have pipes up to 32 feet long with frequencies down to 16 Hz and there are a few with pipes up to 64 feet. You will more feel than hear these pedal ranks. You don't just have to have your hearing damaged to have a substantial experience.

But to each his own preferences. The mystique of vinyl or tube amplifiers need not be confused with the facts of acoustics and electronics.

Ted

Hi again psynce my soon to be son-in-law is into Electronic music creation and DJing and I hear it often from their area of the house sometimes wondering if a spaceship is landing in there. ;)

The vinyl is the medium that holds the information that requires the technology to extract the data for my bit of consciousness to interpret in my Reality. It's All data.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

That's sort of why i favor bass more than treble, mainly because treble is what damages your hearing, i mean music would be boring if it was all one or the other, and i see what you mean by the experience of the organ in the cathedral, i'm sort of just trying to draw comparisons because i heard Jimi Hendrix talking about a Rock and Roll Church, and in that interview he talked about how him and his band played to feel the music as opposed to hearing it, which he was also saying all these other bands where playing loud because Jimi was playing loud but they weren't realizing Jimi and his band where playing for it to go through to the soul. That's some other stuff i'd like to ask about but maybe for another topic.

That's also very interesting that there are pipes that go up to 32 and 64 feet. Those are binary numbers, and i think it's really interesting how an instrument most people would consider real [digital instruments being fake...and i'm not accusing you of this Ted, i'm talking about my friends and people i know], uses a mechanical system [if that's the correct way to describe it, im not sure] like a binary sequence to determine specific notes by length [i'm assuming not every pipe is 1,2,4,8,16ft ... right?]


there's something i want to bring up about music itself relating to something else but i'll wait til i know more about what i am trying to talk about.

the one thing i forgot to bring up [because i wrote this all late night in haste] is how a synthesizer is basically like the human vocal chords, and how the vocal chords are like a stringed instrument. The advantage the vocal chords have over the string is the ability to for speech. The advantage the synth has over the vocal chords is it is more detailed and more control, but they all seem to operate in the same manner.

A keyboard plays as many notes as it has voices, and synthesizers are really specific and controllable keyboards. Also i noticed a filter envelope in the positive direction is like breathing out and an envelope going in is like breathing in. Just some observations


But i was wondering what you guys think of the state of arts in a field that seems to be financially dependent, as well as being a relatively new form of content, in times where money is such a focus and is supposed to be a main concern.

heh i could imagine :D

I try not to blast it around a bunch of people if i'm driving because i imagine not everyone wants to hear it, since reading Tom's books i feel i can listen to all the kinds of music i like from an outsiders perspective, almost like thinking "what's the big deal with it?"

Is there a specific role sound plays in our interpretation of data? [not specific like more important than any others, i mean like a specific way it can be explained or type of field]

Because music seems like it's going beyond taking information to be all serious about yourself [even though that's really common in modern pop music]

Music has been used against us to evoke emotion to attach to the Belief Systems being inserted in big awesome building since they started doing that just like psychology has been used against us by Marketing to control our behaviors.

It can also be used for Good like Hendricks practiced.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

I thought about this topic in general alot.

Music,Art ect. I see it as a series of patterns that gets refracted through one's Consciousness. And a result is a wide range of Feelings. Seems that it is matched and refracts with our qaulity of C or more about how we process and arrived at our quality.

Kinda like Comedy for example: as one gets older the patterns of cartoons no longer produces a result.
It is an very slow evolving process(taste for certain things) of interacting with the patterns and the feelings they produce.
Music looking at it very basic probably feels good all in all becuase temp/rythm/structure is organization and Organization feels good to Concsousness entities. Thus most Farmers likes Tobby Kieth, while san fran hipster might like Yann Terisen. (Im not implying organized on an intulectual level, but on a being level as far as a taste for good music)

Thats not that interesting, but what i do find interesting is;

It makes sense to me how some patterns can refract and inspire or make sad, happy ect.
But iv allways tried to figure out what getting Crunk is? basically Swag.
I listen to 90 percent of music only for a swag effect. I Do not listen to any thing on the radio. The other 10 percent maybe inspirational aspect.

Younger i would listen to something untill it could not produce any krunk swag. then i Would have to evolve to more extreem. Crunk ness feels really good, (thats why it is in the saying Sex/Drugs/RocknRoll.) But im not sure what that steams from as far as Positive or negative to entity.

As a side note:
-I think for me that iv learned more about being open minded from progressing through more and more abstract experimental music than any thing. If my friends (that i was in a band with) would not have cramed more and more of that music down my thraught that i had to adjust too, I don't see any way im reading MBT and not wearing Backwards Texas Ranger hat and oacklys.

-Also I realized the importance of not making life desicions such as to swag or not to swag by ussing intelect. Now i just minimize it to once a week and that feels natural for the point im at now.

_________________
All Praise to Dez Bryant "Feed tha Beast"

psynce

there is something with music and musicians. like they're tuned. easy to be around. i can be tough to be around, but I love music. listening to cocorosie now. and I think it's brilliant.


the great philosopher Nelson goodman on analog vs. digital:


krsistian

I am so happy I found this book again as I could not find it in my bookcases and I could not remember the exact name. The one I have or had was in a different cover but I am pretty sure this is the book this thread makes me think of every time I read it. I am bookmarking it this time.

http://www.amazon.com/Temperament-Becam ... 0375703306
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

http://www.health.harvard.edu/newslette ... -the-heart
 

_________________
'Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones ignorance.' Confucius.

i want to refer to what bette was saying that digital music is being used to control us. it is 100% true for me, i feel it with every rhythm. 10 minutes of metal music will bring bad outcome for me. when 10 minutes of Gregorian chaNT music will open my mind and give me better intent for better outcome(my experience). digital music is a way to control.. but we have the free will to take the choice

I don't think I said "digital" music though if I did that was too specific. The vibrational frequency of music in huge buildings as well as the combination of certain notes are used to bring forth feelings which are either innate or programmed in by association to represent something scary or some such manipulation possibly even an accidental association but more purposefully than anything in my opinion. I like to listen to a specific head banger CD when driving as I find it very exhilarating and so it keeps me awake and I like the words and sing out loud because really they are screaming anyways. :)

Putting certain music with emotional concepts associates them and then just the music brings the concept or emotion forth which can be used to control others or to control self I agree.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.