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 Post subject: Off and On
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:06 am 
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I was reading today and kind of writing at the same time and I came across this thought and I wondered if anyone had any thoughts of their own about it. It was inspired by MBT, but I'm not sure its in agreement with it.

Quote:
To interrupt, I just was reading Alan Watts’ book to his children (The Book on the Taboo of Knowing Who You Are). Within it he states that all is “on” and “off”. Without “off” there is no “on”. I have always said there is only “on” in the great scheme of things and that “off” is an illusion for there can only be ONE ultimately and that must be “on”. It cannot be otherwise for the cycle could not manifest from nothing. Off and On are digital, but digital is still a metaphor, an illusion. On could only exist if Off is illusion. Without On there is nothing to turn Off on, but On does not need Off to give the illusion of being Off.


What I think I'm really saying is that "Off", in my view, cannot be given the same primacy as "On".

I didn't think it appropriate to post in Physics as I am sadly lacking in that kind of knowledge for the most part, but I keep plugging away at it.

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 Post subject: Re: Off and On
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:18 am 
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Reminds me of Bentov's book Stalking the wild pendulum. http://www.amazon.com/Stalking-Wild-Pen ... 0892812028
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Bette

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 Post subject: Re: Off and On
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:40 am 
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I'll take a look bette. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Off and On
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:56 am 
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You're welcome Beau. :)
Love to you and yours,
Bette

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 Post subject: Re: Off and On
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:23 am 
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I also found this in the Alan Watts book too. It kind of gets back to the whole idea of being in the green room upon death, but he uses the metaphor more as an reason why a person passing on should be celebrated with great gusto. Also I have read on and realize that when Watts speaks of "Off and On" he is implying that they are two aspects of the same thing just as the head and tail of the cat are such. I guess I am trying to figure out how Off and On can be equal ideas since I can't seem to relate to an Off that then turns itself back on, just as my computer can't turn its self back on. I couldn't find the green room thread so I just added this quote here.


Quote:
And then comes the hitherto
unbelievable surprise: you don't die because you were never born. You
had just forgotten who you are.
All this comes much more easily with the collaboration of friends.
When we are children, our other selves, our families, friends, and
teachers, do everything possible to confirm us in the illusion of
separateness—to help us to be genuine fakes, which is precisely what is
meant by "being a real person." For the person, from the Latin persona,
was originally the megaphone-mouthed mask used by actors in the
open-air theaters of ancient Greece and Rome, the mask through (per)
which the sound (sonus) came. In death we doff the persona, as actors
take off their masks and costumes in the green room behind the scenes.
And just as their friends come behind the stage to congratulate them on
the performance, so one's own friends should gather at the deathbed to
help one out of one's mortal role, to applaud the show, and, even more,
to celebrate with champagne or sacraments (according to taste) the great
awakening of death.

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 Post subject: Re: Off and On
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:06 am 
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Might it occur to anyone that Alan Watts was feeling for the digital nature of reality but not reaching the level of understanding that Tom Campbell achieved with this on/off question. Also the cycle did arise from nothing. Everything arose from the nothingness of the Void of ancient (and modern) mysticism. All fully explained in Tom's model of how Consciousness arose, first for the One Consciousness and then gifted to all the IUOCs, making them into IUOCs rather than just the components which integrally, within their Union, are the One Consciousness/AUO/AUM.

This green room metaphor is just a way of viewing the transition from PMR consciousness as one returns to your NPMR consciousness which has been proceeding on all along. This is his never born/never dying understanding based upon Zen Buddhism but again lacking Tom's understanding and his model of VRs. You are not born into PMR as you already existed as your true self within NPMR. You just added a cycle of awareness of a PMR data stream with its PMR constraints and rule set running in parallel and separated from your NPMR data stream. At death, you do not die but rather that PMR data stream terminates, going through a transitional period amounting to whatever you need to get you through it, until you are ready to realize that 'oh, the learning session is over and I am myself in NPMR again'.

This transition can be very elaborate and long as in Robert Monroe's description of the belief system territories where you live until you gradually awaken to the fact that it is just a belief system and move on. This can be shorter as in Michael Newton's descriptions of people returning and meeting and recognizing their regular associates in NPMR within their class room and with their teacher/guide in attendance. It can be like Tom Campbell's metaphor of coming home from a long day at the office and sitting down in your easy chair to review the events of the 'day' for a much more advanced and developed IUOC, integrating the lessons into your full self.

Ted


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 Post subject: Re: Off and On
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:41 am 
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Nice quotes, Beau.

If we consider that this whole AUM "pulses"; nothingness to manifold to nothingeness, on and off endlessly. Is it still logically given that the nothingness is the basis of which everything arose? I see how this fits in Tom's model, that it shows how this thing evolves, but when the nothingness carries the potential of the manifold, the nothingness itself is an illusion, isn't it, a fake mask?

kristian


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 Post subject: Re: Off and On
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:46 am 
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It is only speculation that AUM repeatedly cycles from the Void state up to some high level of development just as it is only speculation as to whether as Tom facetiously put it, we are within a whole herd of 'Aumosauruses' or not. These are speculations that Tom did not choose to make as I remember Tom pointing out that we are in an equivalent position to a 'gut' bacteria speculating as to the nature of the greater reality.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg, is the equivalent question but we don't know that there is such a cycle as you mention other than that it might be a possibility.

Ted


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 Post subject: Re: Off and On
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:06 pm 
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In this particular Reality frame or PMVR (hm) I'd say the one celled egg came first. :)
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Bette

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 Post subject: Re: Off and On
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:27 pm 
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A funny incident.

I picked up Robert Waggoner's "Lucid Dreaming - Gateway to the inner self" again tonight, after having left it half read a while ago. (This book might fit into Jeff's (your) study (see chapter 8)). After a few minutes I read this:


third part is the sentral. rest is context.
Attachment:
waggoner1.png
waggoner1.png [ 103.98 KiB | Viewed 298 times ]


Attachment:
waggoner2.png
waggoner2.png [ 63.01 KiB | Viewed 298 times ]


Attachment:
waggoner3.png
waggoner3.png [ 134.34 KiB | Viewed 298 times ]

http://geekboy.57o9.org/Lucid%20Dreamin ... ggoner.pdf

it's proof!!


kristian


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