I have just started reading the MBT trilogy and need some help with understanding how the following concept can be explained within the MBT model:

From what frame of reality (PMR or NPMR) is healing performed? If there is a “physical” explanation of why a procedure works on the physical body (e.g. proven medical treatments based on drugs, surgery, etc), is the person administering the procedure doing it from a PMR frame of reality (vs. another person applying alternative healing therapies where ‘subtle energies” seem to be involved - such as acupuncture - and no scientific explanation/general acceptance of the medical community of why a theraphy works exists)? Are these "subtle energies" considered part of the "non-physical reality" because they have not been validated/measured by science (as opposed to those energies that have been validated in the PMR - e.g. electric impulses in the nervous system)? If I am using a healing technique that is based on acupuncture meridians (e.g. traditional acupuncture, EFT, etc) or the chakra system, does that healing take place in the ‘non-physical” body of the person receiving the healing (NPMR frame) first and then it is somehow “projected” to his/her physical body (PMR frame) where its effects can be perceived and physically measured? Or is it done directly on his/her “physical body”? Also, if, in the future, the scientific community is able to measure and accept those “subtle energies” and, what once was seen as an alternative healing theraphy becomes a conventional theraphy (applied and accepted by the medical community), will this now be considered "physical phenomena" and only take place in the PMR frame of reality?

Thanks

001: Other answers will appear presently. For now, a simple answer is that PMR is a subset of NPMR and the parameters of PMRs are not absolutely fixed for all time, but modulate over time.

-Montana

001,

Both PMR and NPMR are Virtual Realities. That is, they exist as what you perceive as provided to you in a data stream representing that specific experience. Each VR has a rule set. In the PMR rule set, you have a body, the usual senses and experience things limited and controlled, in the normal stream of things, based upon that rule set. That does not mean that we know all of the rule set for PMR. That is what science in general is trying to figure out with much head scratching and a fair amount of trial and error. Whatever healing occurs here in PMR occurs here in PMR and the Psi Uncertainty Principle comes into play. That is, the data stream is modified to represent that healing effect. As a simplest statement, I would say that healing is according to the rule set of PMR with the addition of effects instigated by guidance and allowed by the Consciousness System via the PUP. If it is best for you and not bad for PMR and the system, it is allowed to happen whether it fits via the rule set or not. The healing does not occur in NPMR and affect you here. You have no body there in NPMR and thus nothing to heal to start with. Secondly, they are separate data streams and experiences. It does not necessarily have to be instigated there as you can heal yourself, granted the knowledge and Intent, and meeting the criteria already mentioned.

The 'you' is the Individuated Unit Of Consciousness that receives the data stream that is this VR experience. That is not all that it does nor does 'all' of it represent the present 'you' of PMR. The you that experiences PMR is a sub set that we have come to call the Free Will Awareness Unit here or FWAU. A sub set of your whole IUOC specifically designated, and perhaps limited in some way, to be the experiencer of PMR as you. Another sub set or FWAU, not limited as possibly for PMR experiences the VR of NPMR. The totality of your IUOC also simultaneously, that is as part of the time sharing of state changes (digital time change) in Consciousness Space. You are a sort of digital sub routine in the Cosmic Computer that is AUM that experiences these various things in a repeating cycle of being called with different data as needed. Called as part of AUM with data and effects that you will be unaware of, called much less frequently with the NPMR data stream and typically are not aware of here within PMR. Finally called still less frequently with the PMR data stream to experience this VR of PMR. Not really that difficult to understand if you have experience with programming.

Hopefully this answers your questions. It seemed more efficient to say this than answer individual questions as stated. If you can't fit this into answers for your questions, ask again and we will try again.

Ted

Montana and Ted - Thanks for your response!

I'm a little confused. Is acupuncture strictly a placebo effect? If so, I have several friends that have tried it and it worked for them. The problem is that they told me that they didn't think it would work before they went in for the procedure and it still worked. So, is it just the intent of the acupuncture practitioner?

Could you be a little more specific as to where you are coming up with this and give some more details? Where would you get that acupuncture is a placebo effect out of anything said here? Look into learning how to use the search function. Both acupuncture and placebo effect have been discussed before here on the board. Acupuncture has a long history of efficacy but not any deep understanding of how it works as it has no visible physiological structure associated with its 'meridians' and their stimulation and the flow of 'chi'. At least I have so far never heard that there was a developing understanding. But that does not prevent it from working.

Ted

Hi ahicks and welcome to Tom's MBT discussion forums. How familiar are you with Tom's work at this point, please?

Welcome again.
Love to you and yours,
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Ted,

Thanks for the information. Yes, "acupuncture" is exactly the search word that I used here on the forum looking for my answer before posting. I'm trying to understand how acupuncture works based on Tom's MBT. You stated that, "Acupuncture has a long history of efficacy but not any deep understanding of how it works." That's my point exactly. I'm looking for that "deep understanding" of how it works. I wondered if it was due to the placebo effect, or intent, or something else - based on Tom's theory.

Bette,

Thanks for the welcome. I'm pretty familiar with Tom's work. I've finished the first book in the Trilogy, and I'm currently working on the second now. I have seen almost all, if not all, of the lectures on Youtube, including the Canada and Spain lectures. Maybe Tom mentioned acupuncture before, but I can't remember. He does mention the placebo effect often so that's why I believed that acupuncture may work due to the belief of the patient (placebo effect) and the intent of the acupuncturist. I am new to the forum and if I am using it in an incorrect way, I apologize. Thanks again for your help.

Abraxas

I believe that Tom's MBT theory does explain all "paranormal" activity, including healings. My question is how does acupuncture work based on Tom's theories of PMR's and the larger consciousness system? I'm sure Tom could explain this very easily. I was hoping to get an explanation from one (or some) of the many brilliant minds in this forum.

Abraxas

Tom has never to my knowledge explained anything himself about acupuncture. I have personal experience with it as a patient but that does not provide an explanation in terms of MBT other than to say that it is another aspect of the virtual reality rule set. There is nothing that I am aware of that says that acupuncture is in any way paranormal nor is it any type of 'healing' as referred to here. Of course you might consider it as paranormal as it brings in the concept of 'chi' and the 'channels' within which chi flows. And as a VR, you could use your Intent to non physically manipulate the chi within its channels, making it into a non physical healing technique instead of the physical procedure that it normally amounts to. I do not see it as paranormal however, just unexplained to me. It seems to be perfectly 'normal' as clearly a part of the VR as the rule set describes physicality but without explanation as far as Western science and medicine can explain it. It does not match neurological or physiological structures as I understand them but rather seems to be somehow 'parallel' and outside of known neurology and physiology. If you did not find an answer here on the board with the search function, then I think that there is no answer to your question here. You could attempt to contact Tom and see if he can offer further information for you.

Ted

Thanks a lot, Ted. I was thinking about it myself after posting again. If I look at this reality as strictly information (with "nudges" from the LCS), then the healing could easily take place due to the acupuncturist intent. For example, two guys go to get acupuncture, neither "believes" it will work. One acupuncturists is day dreaming about an argument she had with her boyfriend the night before, while poking man A with needles. Man B gets an acupuncturist that has an intent (and a belief) in the process. Man A doesn't get any better - confirming that he knew it wouldn't work. Man B is extremely surprised, and pleased that it worked. And, now is a believer in acupuncture. With or without the belief (intent) in acupuncture process by the patient, it still works/doesn't work because of the intent (or lack there) of the acupuncturist? Reality is information only.
Whether we call it paranormal or not doesn't matter to me. Like you said, it doesn't make sense physiologically to western medicine or science, thus it could be called paranormal healing.

I haven't looked into this much but my personal suspicion is that acupuncture tricks the body into thinking it is wounded, triggering normal healing chemicals to be released. What may have been noticed lets say from a battle scenario, where a sword wound may have been discovered to stimulate the healing of an otherwise persistent unwanted condition, for a period, the Chinese may have practised poking themselves with swords or knives, and over time, found certain patterns seemed to work, and that smaller and smaller penetrations were required to get the effect, or trigger the placebo, if indeed there is a placebo element.

Some of this may be belief mixed with placebo as well as actual physical therapeutic effect. I am highly skeptical about the meridian aspect, but who knows. There must be tons of research already done on this. I would also say don't try this at home. These sorts of things evolve over thousands of years and you don't want to become part of a local beta test and maybe damage a nerve or get an infection or something. Rather, use a professional. Maybe the meridian thing is simply a guide that keeps the needles away from risk zones? I wonder if the same effect could be obtained from little lasers instead of needles?

_________________
Does this PMR make my butt look big?

Randy,

You haven't looked into this enough to be realistically speculating. The meridians are not in any way arbitrary. I have mentioned on the board, referring to my own experience, that when part of a meridian might be stimulated that the balance of the meridian can sometimes be felt. It would be like a string of Christmas tree lights, although some lights would be brighter than others. [Editing for some clarification and corrections to my memory.] I also had a device, which I mentioned, that was used to find the point accurately by sound feedback coming from electrical resistance of the local tissue which was lower at the actual point. It was then used for the stimulation of the points as well as the pressure of the probe tip, as I remember, being able to penetrate the skin sufficiently with the slight electrical flow which stimulated the point. I have not been able to locate a similar device on the Internet but there may be such. There is also a technique that I have mentioned here called acupressure that can safely be used for self stimulation. Apparently acupressure, as opposed to acupuncture, has now been traced back to the past in Tibet rather than just the recent books I had read and used. Search on the Internet and you will find references.

Acupressure is something useful to know for first aid purposes and would be worth while for anyone to learn something about, especially if you or someone in your family is prone to allergies. I have for instance been able to use techniques from acupressure to stop anaphylactic reactions from proceeding which otherwise might have sent me to the emergency room with a severe allergic reaction to food. Saved money as well as trouble and hours of severe illness. There are devices for instance which are promoted to put pressure on the appropriate acupressure point to stop motion sickness, although there is some disagreement as to their efficacy, largely due in my opinion to the untrained person not knowing where to actually place the band and the point at which it brings pressure. There are techniques to locate the acupressure points accurately and to be aware that you are effectively pressing on them, based upon the sensations resulting at that point. You might as well know the actual point and then you don't need a device, although with the device you don't need to do anything other than properly locate the device. Acupressure is something which an individual can self learn, given a good book as a resource to suggest appropriate points and their locations. You can actually find the points yourself through feedback from the sensations produced locally, given directions as to where to look.

Why argue with success.

Ted