Hey.
Like my topic describes. I Wondered about this question suddenly one day.
I realize iam really generalizing here, but there IS a "trend" that "nice guys" don' t get the desired attention from girls that maybe "bad boys" or more aggressive boys do. I am not saying you have to be "bad", but its hard to get girls attracted to you if you are TOO nice. If all you do is talking about caring and loving (like entropy reducing is about) you wont get anywhere with that often.

Probably getting flamed on this forum for stating such a claim. But this Is again a "trend" that is pretty usual in society.

I have read about the link between evolution and sex/dating. And it make sence that femals want to have sex with the "alphas" so they get an offspring with good genes.

SO my question is about the Bigger evolution,- the TOE. If the system is all about progress and evoloution.. Why don' t people with "low entropy" get faster sexually with the opposite sex, when people (often) with "high entropy" often do? I am comparing this reducing entropy process with sex/mating and Survival of the fittest. Where is the link?

Sorry If Iam being to vague, but I hope you get my question(s).

I think its a perfectly normal thing to wonder about. It goes both ways though just as many women are attracted to the bad boys many men are attracted to the bad girl qualities even in a mostly "good girl". I think it has to do with where your need for companionship is coming from. The desire for a purely sexual relationship is kind of fear driven in a way even if there is no actual sex, but to many of us a relationship that is all about higher love seems not so exciting as something that's down and dirty :) I think we can find a plausible balance and that when we do the partner we find ourselves with will be complimentary to that unique aspect of ourselves that we keep hidden until it feels right to be completely open. So many of us are afraid of missing out on something that we miss out on so much more simply because of the fear in the first place.

The girl is attracted to the thrill of the bad boy. The feelings that are stirred in her. When she realizes those feelings are her own and that no outside source is going to truly provide them she "comes to her senses" and looks for something that is more than skin deep.

Just my thoughts, Zeek.

_________________
"All the world's a Stage and all the men and women merely players, They have their exits and their entrances and ONE man in his time plays many parts, his acts beings Heaven ages"---Shakespeare

zeeker,

None of us here in PMR can truly know the level of our entropy. Are you perhaps ignoring the fact that a truly low entropy woman would be more attracted to a truly low entropy man? Perhaps your entropy level is not significantly pertinent to your behavior in the here and now and perhaps you do not truly know any low entropy women. How would you know one if you met one if you cannot truly know your own QoC? What one says, what one talks about is not necessarily relevant. Talk is cheap. Pay attention instead to walking the walk. One really only needs to know one woman, presuming that it is the right one. It isn't a matter of quantity but of quality and that cuts both ways.

Ted

The larger consciousness system is all about the evolution of consciousness - spiritual growth. In that case, evolution deals with growing toward love - toward a more productive and useful state that naturally expresses love. That is what keeps the system "alive".

PMR (as a virtual reality) evolves in a different way. The process of evolution itself is fractal-like, but the goals are a bit different. In the case of PMR, the biological drive is to survive and to procreate. That is what keeps PMR "alive".

The primary purpose of PMR (from a larger view) is not to grow itself toward a higher state of love (though that may happen as a natural result as we all grow). The primary purpose of PMR is to provide an environment in which we, as chunks of consciousness can gain direct experience in the name of growth (including both good and bad experiences). Procreation and survival are specif to PMR(s) and are not universal. They help to create the environment within which we can gain the direct experiences that help us grow in understanding and love.

Romantic love is a PMR process... and a very useful one in terms of direct experience. Being the "nice guy" might not always get you the girl that your PMR self tells you that you need or should have. You are, in a sense, part IUOC and part human. - a mixture of both. You are a unit of consciousness dealing with what it is to be in PMR as a human with unique traits and qualities. You are an expression of your "higher self" dealing with what it is to be zeeker (the human). Our "higher self" is likely not yearning to meet a girl. Consider some of the PMR examples of what might represent truly low entropy beings: Gandhi, Mother Teressa, Jesus, Buddha, et all. The PMR drive to find a partner or lover was not of primary concern (that I know of). This is not to say that we should pretend to be like them. We should be who we are and keep on working to make our next choice be just a little bit better. The goal is not to become perfect, but to experience, learn, and grow while we are exactly who we are.

So your experience with all of this girl business, is just that - an experience; and that is exactly why you are here.

The idea that the nice guy finishes last is quite true as viewed from a PMR perspective, but not from a larger perspective.

By the way, my experience with girls in my early and mid 20's was the same. Be patient and focus on your growth... things tend to start falling from the sky at just the right time when we do that :)

...That is my limited perspective anyway.

_________________
-"You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you might find... you get what you need"

My grandmother used to say "water seeks its own level" that seems pertinent here even if I always thought it was judgmental.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Hi zeeker.

I think I can help you a little bit. My story of enlightenment actually started with knowing how the human mind works - this is just a nice way of saying what do girls really like :). Believe it or not there were times when I wanted to scream at the universe asking "what is wrong with me? " - "am I not good ,or nice or what? ; why do I always get slapped in the face ; does no girl really like me? " :))

And then I was actually nudged towards the dating scene and coming across David deAngelo. One day I received an email on my inbox asking me if I really wanted to know how to double my dating. I was highly suspicious of it but since I didn't have a clue what to do next I said - what the hell; I've reached rock bottom. There's nowhere to go but up now :) or stay at the same level. I had nothing to lose. I subscribed to David deAngelo and low and behold every 1-3 days he was sending one email in which he told main points in interacting with girls and examples of how to do it.

I started to understand what I was doing wrong, what lacked in my approach. A whole new world was opening to me. I felt highly excited. And then I found out that there were a lot more than David deAngelo. There are all kinds of teachers that can help you with your problem. The ones for me who were the real deal were the ones who emphasized inner game. Inner game in my view is just another way of saying lowering your entropy.

I will give you an example to understand inner game. Before knowing these "underground" ideas "nice" was for me the same idea as acting how the girl really wants you to. I mean if I do all of the things that she wants she will like me. But you see this is insecurity and not being your true self. You are acting so that the girls would be with you which means that you're faking it. Every girl has an intuitive radar that can detect every move you make that is not sincere :).

Another example would be going to the first date with flowers. You can go with flowers because you think this is a nice way that you should behave and have a slightly higher chance of her hooking up with you. Again this is the same thing as before. I'm not saying that you shouldn't go with flowers. I'm saying that the intention behind the action is important. If what really defines you is you being romantic and going with flowers then she'll "detect" that you are sincere , but on the other hand if you are doing just to get her approval she will also know it.

Nice guys in general think they are perfect and don't have any flaws but when doing introspection with the right tools you will find a lot of "bugs" in you system so to speak. All of the tools that David deAngelo taught me was how to be more of my real true self. By becoming whole you will encounter whole persons. If you think you lack something (whatever that is - even love, a girl, some thing you think you will get from somewhere else besides you) you will find dysfunctional people.

I am now in a good relationship and feeling great. But the main idea was that before being in a relationship I found out how to feel good no matter what the circumstances are. I mean in the end if you are not loving yourself then nobody can - so love yourself :).

Have a good day,

Ozzy

Hey Zeeker,

it might seem that way, but a lot of nice guys are full of entropy. Sometimes, moreso than the typical bad boy. Both stereotypes, in my opinion, are expressions of high entropy. Relax, they're just stereotypes. Still, I believe that a low entropy man, being fearless and beyond the stereotypes, would out-alpha both:

Look, women are evolutionarily wired to be attracted to many alpha qualities. FEAR is definately NOT one of them. Fear isn't even alpha. When the bad boy gets the girl, he's STILL an expression of high entropy, but relative to the nice guy stereotype, the bad boy is more fearless. The nice guy is almost always a full blown coward "acting" nice to avoid confrontation or to be liked.

So many times the niceness is just a mask. It isn't real. It isn't confident, it's an expression of fear. Lots of "nice guys" are really just "acting" that way just to get something. Niceness comes across as WEAK (full of fear) when it is a ploy just to avoid confrontation or convince a girl to like you.

To conclude: it is more confident and alpha to BE yourself than it is to ACT in a way to get her to like you. That's where the nice guy stereotype fails., among many other reasons.

Acting is "weak." Being is "authentic." Be yourself... and grow. They will come.
Women can smell confidence miles away. But it has to be real.

"Bad boy" behavior is based on Fear I'd say.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

I'd say any forced behavior is based on fear. Just be yourself... the real you. If you are putting on an act it ain't gonna ring true.

_________________
"All the world's a Stage and all the men and women merely players, They have their exits and their entrances and ONE man in his time plays many parts, his acts beings Heaven ages"---Shakespeare

This is a Fun Topic, Forgive me If i am Crude. Talking how i would talk to a friend in person, doesn't read so well. Especially cuse cant see my face.. its meant to be enteraning and a bit silly.


Girls are attracted to thier inaduquacies/Fears/ego. Its about what conditions they define for them having a meaning full existence.
Here are a list of possible EGO-CONNECTERS from wemon:
*I am only meaning full if all other wemon are jelous:
*I Fear i am not supiour enough I want to ge around guy who belittles people
*I Fear i am not pretty as other girls
*I feel inaduquate to other girls

In the system we are in every action a girl makes has to address these values. THis instills as VALUE-SYSTEM: This is how one gages the meaninfull ness of thier existence. Every habit/action/choice made programs this in to the SubAwarness: They are now in the Reaction phase
Like a fish attracted to a shinny hook. The SubA accesses Value, the women reacts with Zero controll over thier actions. (Unless has limited EGO)

EXAMPLE:
If I walked up to a table of 8 girls. and said.. "Ya i just broke up with my girl friend becuase she got to fat" at Least one will have sex with you.
*reason: at least one feels inaduquate about that happing to them. If they have sex with you they Subconsciously want to put out that buring the trama created (egos speciallty)

Each young wemon probably has 30-40 losers weekly trying to have sex with her. In there desprite hopes, they have long pretend conversation, Bring her stuff, opens doors, compliment her. There is zero value in her getting with any one of them. It does not UP what she values as Her having a Meaningfull existence. The guy who Flips her off and says shes ugly, "shell think hmm he must have group of girls chasing him-Now theres Value-Thats rare-Now she'l feel special.

This has nothing to do with looks, you could take brad pit make him a garbage man get a bunch of girls to trick another girl and disshim. That girl would not get w/ in 100 yards, Theres no value to her existence.
You could then take a homeless get group of girls to trick a nother girl that hes dreamy and a doctor. She would beat down his door.

D"Bag ism; this was created from dudes relizing this; and SubConscouly Useit
*If Guy infront of girls, critisize you. at same time, Implys they are the opposite and deminish all of your value.
*If Guy insluts the gilrs, There inaduquices Create the EGO-CONNECTION.
*This epidimic resulted in all the caps,cars,gewely,insults,fighting

_________________
All Praise to Dez Bryant "Feed tha Beast"

Ofcourse as More Wemon and Guys Have less and less EGO. THey will eventually get out of the Involitary reaction Phase.And are attracted to how a other helps them Grow, How loving they are.

THis is Rare, For the young people at least. The solution i See is Not to use D"bag ism to get wemon OBviously: But with a nother Apraoch.

The primese is Going after Spiritualy will lead to natual Sexuality.
Part ONE:
Talk to as many people as you can fealessly. Just as how you would talk to you friends or familly. Don't change apearance,Talk different,no shyness, No fear, No timid ness, Act just as joofy, just as load,
Use this Criteria> Be Direct/Gunuine/Straightforward/Dry
Goal is to walk in to room and every one feels like Family/Friends.
This will take A billion Reps and practice to get there, thats good puts enfisus on Spirituality lead to Sexuality.
PART 2:
Touch them/Hug them/Be playfull
Allways have a look like your about to give them a Hug.
Part 3:
*If They are not of Like quality, You can tell not have same things in comon. But are in party atmosphere and have connected. Say it would be fun to have sex with them see if they want to. If your intention are right this is not Imoral. You are being completely genuine. No pretend text/dates all cuse you want to decivcer her for sex
*If they are Like Quality, Get number hang out be more concerned about having a Deep Friend.

PRINCIPLES:
*Part ONe: USE words trigger thier system in Spiritual way.
When you walk up to strangers, say your just talking cuse you enjoy talking to strangers, Say words/prase like you Enjoy Spontanous conversations. Call your self Adorable. Say you have been talking to others groups of girls and they all have same borring robotic responses (now its unlikey they shew you off lol). Tell them you walk up cuse you dont like how every body goes to a bar and every one to scared to interact and have fun, wouldn't it be great every where you went every one feels like a friend.

All these words are Associated In their SUBAWARNESS to how they have intteracted with thier friends/Family/loved ones. They will feel instatnly close Naturally.

*part two; Touch them/hug them/ Playfull cuse thats what the people who are close to them and they love do. Its 3 weeks of bonding in 1 minutes.

*part three; (metaphor) Say you nabor is a young nerdy kid(low quality wemon), but when you get a chance you hang out with him becuase you enjoy doing so with no conditional affection. There is nothing imoral to say. HEY want to play some video games dude (sex in this metaphor). He Says no you say cool lets go ride bikes.
If the whole reason you hang out is to pretend to like him (texting/dates/pretend converstation) to play vidoe games thats mest up.

_________________
All Praise to Dez Bryant "Feed tha Beast"

This is brilliant insight.

Most people form their opinions by proxy; things are valuable if others find them valuable. This includes fashion, music, people. Hence, all the magazines, blogs, google pagerank, etc.

Confidence is normally built from the esteem of other people, so women find it attractive.

Courtesy in guys is normally a defense for insecurity, so people are suspicious of it. I've been bitten by this.


It would seem that the incentives are for guys to behave badly, but there is also a pay-off in staying out. Being unaffected by insults raises your value.

It is also possible to be aggressively honest without giving insults, example; "is that outfit a facade for your insecurity, or are you really that glamourous/slutty?" Or whatever ...

_________________
Johan

Where is Ann Landers when we need her so badly?

Ted

Teridactal, I agree with a lot of what you say. There's so much to say about this topic.

A Sidenote: I want to stress that the "nice guy" and "bad boy" stereotypes are quite limiting. Individuals are each special causes with regards to entropy and relationships.

Many good answers here.
As a boy with hormones I must honestly admit that i want to be "good with women", to have that choice, where I can have easy access to girls.
As a spiritual being, I want to have spiritual experiences, a shinning good aura and good karma.
As a social person, i want to have the choice to adapt, to connect with people, to be accepted, to get attention, to give attention.

Sometimes I feel that some of these goals are conflicting with each others.

I have experimented a lot with those topics. for example, using the law of attraction, or focus intention to attract a girl that has the same intention as myself. So its a win- win situation for us both.

Also I want to be comfortable with being my "best self". or working on my "inner game" as it is named in the "seduction community".

I don' t want to insult people. I rather Like to show gratefulness. Witch is a good technique for getting girls attracted to you, rewarding "investment to you". If this is genuine, you combine both concept of gratefulness in spiritually and "investment" in flirting. I want to optimize things in every area, this is what growth is about.

Also Sexual desires and hormones, is a NATURAL thing within our body. So i don' t see any reason for stopping that, like religion for example teach people to do. I HOPE that people that "work on them self" or Reduce entropy really get rewarded, or else what is the point. It would be fun if you could work with your spiritual guides, to help you out to create a life with abundance, understanding, self love and transforming into an attractive person.

The tips about feeling love for yourself, sounds good. release all those conflicting feelings and limited beliefs. Also possible, as mention, there is a chance that when you have reached a certain level of self growth, a women on the same level will be ready for you. Like attracts like.

As i look at my self as a "good person" meaning being raised by my parents to threat others good, i will never be a "bad boy". But I do have a "player vibe" where the attitude is that you can flirt with many girls as the same time, witch for some reason is almost "always" attracting for girls. I am really not sure if Attraction IS a choice, like someone mention here. Or if it is just a instinctive process. where some type of vibes natural are reacted on as more attracted to, compared to others. If the concept of flirting with many girls at the same time is awakening up ethical question in the reader, then its possible, to say that the reader have some fear and ego issues, is it not. As a individual you want to be free, to have choices, to live in abundance. you don' t HAVE to, but its nice to have the choice.