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 Post subject: Drugs
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:49 am 
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Peter:I found this within a previous post and thought it would be easier to find by someone on a specific search for drugs.

Tom: "People suddenly thrust into a totally foreign reality frame feel fearful. That is just one of many reasons why the fast plunge that a drug provides is counterproductive - it tends to be fear inducing more often than fear reducing - sometimes such experiences, if they gain traction in NPMR, are terrifying. Sometimes, if they don't gain intellectual or emotional traction and just tend to float about aimlessly, they are pleasant. Sometimes they are profound, but the profundity (like a spectacular sunset) is non-specific and generally of little long term importance or value - there is just not much you can do with it. (You do not have the preparation, experience, knowledge, or understanding to do anything with it) Imagine yourself, a city boy, teleported to the deep interior of the Brazilian jungle - how long would it be before you became fearful - probably long before daylight faded. Now imagine you had been exploring the deep interior of the Brazilian Jungle over several decades (knew the people, the language, the plants & critters, and most importantly how to survive and return home) and suddenly found yourself teleported to the same place. Would there be a difference? Technology takes you into reality frames for which you are not prepared - fear is the most common result - now you are worse off than you were before - you have additional fear to deal with. NPMR is not a lalaland where little girls wearing big straw hats skip through sunny fields of flowers singing a happy song. You might just as well be dropped into the exercise yard of a Georgia maximum security prison wearing nothing but a pink bow around your neck."

Peter: From what I understand the same can be said if your only objective is to go OBE (without drugs) and to 'experience' that state without trying to 'grow' your consciousness. To read about OBE's ,get excited and make them the pièce de ré·sis·tance would be the recipe to stunt your growth in the short and long term. I find that taking short cuts is in conditioning (belief) that's becoming more apparent to myself everyday. No matter what task or situation I face the automatic conditioning kicks in and tries to work out a quicker, shorter, lazier way even though the better more productive option, which sometimes turns out to be the only option, is on a platter in front of me. I presume to acknowledge this is a step in the right direction.
"Good things come to people who wait' my Mother always says. "But take off the pink bow" I would add ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: Drugs
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:50 pm 
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Hi Peter
How interesting that you post about this since I just changed my thesis topic again to basically one of trying to induce an OOBE in willing gang members utilizing Hemi-Sync (The Monroe Institute) in order to snap them into reality and help the gang problem stop. It's all the violence that bothers me but especially the innocent bystanders being killed just about every day in LA California. I think if anything invoking this state of consciousness without them doing any work to earn it could still have a life changing effect on them. They could then help open other minds, and so on, and so forth. What do you think?

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 Post subject: Re: Drugs
PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 1:10 am 
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Bette:How interesting that you post about this since I just changed my thesis topic again to basically one of trying to induce an OOBE in willing gang members utilizing Hemi-Sync (The Monroe Institute) in order to snap them into reality and help the gang problem stop. It's all the violence that bothers me but especially the innocent bystanders being killed just about every day in LA California. I think if anything invoking this state of consciousness without them doing any work to earn it could still have a life changing effect on them. They could then help open other minds, and so on, and so forth. What do you think?

Peter: I can see what you are pointing towards Bette. I think it could very well have a life changing effect on someone open to the fact that they could have an OOBE but would it 'grow' that particular person or people by the experience alone ? Would OBE make the person change his/her perception on life, for life? Certainly in the right circumstance I'd say but does an experience like this need a solid foundation to make a real difference? From what I understand you don't even need an OOBE to grow. When I first read about OBE's I thought how amazing they even occurred but as I read MBT I am realizing there is so much more...
An OOBE with drugs Tom explains well in his post and without drugs and no foundation ,although a lot less 'violent', you could fall into the same trap I suspect. (fear and no idea if it's real)
After having said this Bette I am coming from an intellectual point of view not from the personal experience side so take what you will;-)

thanks,
Peter

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 Post subject: Re: Drugs
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:01 pm 
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Peter: From what I understand the same can be said if your only objective is to go OBE (without drugs) and to 'experience' that state without trying to 'grow' your consciousness. To read about OBE's, get excited and make them the piece de laresistance would be the recipe to stunt your growth in the short and long term.

Tom: You are absolutely correct. Without an intent to grow, a desire to pull your consciousness quality up by its bootstraps, the experience is useless -- often worse than useless.

Bette, if the experience of mediation driven by hemi-sync can get your gang members interested in developing themselves it will be a big help to them; however if they see the practice as offering a way to hurt others at a legally safe distance (e.g. voodoo -- using focused intent to hurt instead of heal), then it will have harmed them.

Tom C


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 Post subject: Re: Drugs
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:24 pm 
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Tom
Thank you. I will keep this in mind during the pre-treatment narrative data gathering phase before introducing hemi-sync. My intent is to open them to a higher quality consciousness for their own development with the desire to see them encourage others to develop themselves towards a nicer existence for society, peace, love, dove, all that warm fuzzy stuff. I guess I have to take the chance of it backfiring, right? And again, although I must design the experiment for this thesis paper, it is only on paper for now. At least the official psychology be nice to humans board, IRB I believe but could be wrong, won't have this belief to overcome to approve my design if it went to actuality, because they wouldn't even think of the participants being able to misuse it. Thank you again.

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 Post subject: Re: Drugs
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:47 am 
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I like to think the only constant is change. I've removed the Hemi-Sync, or any treatment, from my thesis and made it a research study proposal for theory development using only qualitative method rather than mixed (quantitative and qualitative). I can still introduce Tom's nonphysical digital information system as consciousness in the literature review, as well as in the research design chapter and discussion. Theory development lets me create something, a new theory of gang mentality mutation, and so will fill that need in me while hopefully pointing outward as well. I'm going to be getting volunteers who have been convicted of murder from different populations (different types of gangs) per my several hypothesis about current gang violence happening in America to study using various existing and created tools that psychological researchers use, the basic being grounded theory. This if fyi for anyone that is interested.

Drugs are bad, mmmkay? viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3102&start=30

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Bette

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 Post subject: Aldous Huxley
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:08 am 
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Hey everyone,

I thought this would be an appropriate thread in which to post this. I was sifting through YouTube for something of value, when I came across this short video series of an interview with Aldous Huxley- the writer of 'The Doors of Perception' (which inspired the name for the band: The Doors), and most famously, "A Brave New World." I'm sure you're all familiar with the latter. I actually hadn't done much research up to this point on the author behind "A Brave New World," but I am glad I found this. Here is a good example of someone who made positive use (so-far as one can) of the psycho-active properties of certain ingestible substances. I'm not in any way, shape, or form posting this with an attitude like, "See- told ya so! Drugs aren't bad!! etc." Tom made excellent points on the use of drugs and I do agree with his conclusions (with open minded skepticism) on the issue (at least as far as evolving the Quality of one's consciousness goes).

The reason I found this video relavent to My Big TOE- is that in the first video of the series, Huxley talks about the fact that we (humans on Earth) need to learn to live not only in [PMR] but also in [other reality frames].

Aldous Huxley wrote:
"I think it's very important to insist.. from the beginning, that we are living in many diverse, and even in some sense- incommunicable universes at the same time. And that our business in life is somehow to make the best of all the worlds we live in. Among the worlds we have to make the best of- first of all... this world of discursive thought, this scientific and philosophical and practical world... and at the same time, the world of non-verbal, immediate experience."

^-- From the interview.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4O5nVgY ... re=related

The whole interview is quite good, so this for anyone who's interested. (Bette, I know you will be! :) )


Cole

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 Post subject: Re: Drugs
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:56 am 
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Thank you Cole, I'll check it out. Funny, I have woken early today thinking hard about the whole "drugs are bad" thing. Thinking about how better choices could have been made, how it isn't the end of the world that choices were made as they were, but that I could have done better, much better, no matter what was "done to me". Then I was thinking about beliefs and how I struggle to not have automatic thinking based on beliefs, or at least to recognize it when it happens, and how very programmed by whatever society we are in we are. Take money, my daughter asked when she was around 12 what good money was. She said you can't eat it, it's just paper, you can't build a house with it. I had the same type thought when I was around her age about credit, that if I couldn't buy something outright I couldn't afford it. Then I'm reading about the GM company problems currently in the newsletters I get, can see in the TV news the term "The Feds" when talking about money, and what is happening to the people being laid off from autoworker plants that have inflated wages (like $60 an hour) having to take two jobs to earn half the money while also losing their property and investments. It all seem pretty familiar to me. Its like the "as if" game I played, acting as if I needed the credit card I was using to rent cars at first. As if my daughter had the required material things, indicating 'normal' family life, for school so her experience might be more pleasant than my school experience. Then it was as if we could just rent a car and take her, my son, and my daughters friends to concerts, then Disneyland (we love dizzy land as my son having autism allows us to enter rides through the exits, no or little waiting). It mushroomed out of control as the emergencies started, and then the long term medical treatments requiring monthly car renting and out of town dr trips, and medical bills. The emergencies, sick pets, broken cars, etc overtook what I could pay and the cards (0% transfers) started being used for household expenses too. What does this have to do with drugs, well, money is a drug too I think. Drugs are used to control people and money is a drug. I believed I would be able to pay the credit bills up to a certain point on my current income, then as it became obvious I couldn't I started looking for ways to earn more income. My belief that I could work outside the home fizzled as my son decided he didn't want to attend school anymore at 19, and then he had a seizure July 2008 making staying home with him the reality. Beliefs are beliefs, this particular one (that I could pull up out of this before it bit my assets) was bad. I'm getting a better grip on beliefs perhaps. The reason I belief Tom, that MBT is something I believe is because it is not something I know, therefore it is only a belief. It seems glaringly obvious now. Thank you for letting me share ;).
Love
Bette

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 Post subject: Re: Drugs
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:17 am 
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bette wrote:
Thank you Cole, I'll check it out. Funny, I have woken early today thinking hard about the whole "drugs are bad" thing. Thinking about how better choices could have been made, how it isn't the end of the world that choices were made as they were, but that I could have done better, much better, no matter what was "done to me". Then I was thinking about beliefs and how I struggle to not have automatic thinking based on beliefs, or at least to recognize it when it happens, and how very programmed by whatever society we are in we are. Take money, my daughter asked when she was around 12 what good money was. She said you can't eat it, it's just paper, you can't build a house with it. I had the same type thought when I was around her age about credit, that if I couldn't buy something outright I couldn't afford it. Then I'm reading about the GM company problems currently in the newsletters I get, can see in the TV news the term "The Feds" when talking about money, and what is happening to the people being laid off from autoworker plants that have inflated wages (like $60 an hour) having to take two jobs to earn half the money while also losing their property and investments. It all seem pretty familiar to me. Its like the "as if" game I played, acting as if I needed the credit card I was using to rent cars at first. As if my daughter had the required material things, indicating 'normal' family life, for school so her experience might be more pleasant than my school experience. Then it was as if we could just rent a car and take her, my son, and my daughters friends to concerts, then Disneyland (we love dizzy land as my son having autism allows us to enter rides through the exits, no or little waiting). It mushroomed out of control as the emergencies started, and then the long term medical treatments requiring monthly car renting and out of town dr trips, and medical bills. The emergencies, sick pets, broken cars, etc overtook what I could pay and the cards (0% transfers) started being used for household expenses too. What does this have to do with drugs, well, money is a drug too I think. Drugs are used to control people and money is a drug. I believed I would be able to pay the credit bills up to a certain point on my current income, then as it became obvious I couldn't I started looking for ways to earn more income. My belief that I could work outside the home fizzled as my son decided he didn't want to attend school anymore at 19, and then he had a seizure July 2008 making staying home with him the reality. Beliefs are beliefs, this particular one (that I could pull up out of this before it bit my assets) was bad. I'm getting a better grip on beliefs perhaps. The reason I belief Tom, that MBT is something I believe is because it is not something I know, therefore it is only a belief. It seems glaringly obvious now. Thank you for letting me share ;).
Love
Bette


I hear ya bette... I hope that's enough (to know that others can emphathize with you)...

Money definitely can be a drug, in the sense that both drugs and money can be both addictive and abused. ...Which brings me back to the point: anything used, experienced, or enjoyed is fine if used/experienced/ or enjoyed in moderation and with a clear head, and with as little "collateral damage" (*doesn't harm others) as possible.. <--- I think we agree on that. I hope we can all remember, especially when 'things are bad' that "this too will pass." Live and Learn, I guess.

Yes, belief is tricky isn't it? My way of thinking about MBT is that certain key concepts had "occured" to me before coming across Tom Campbell and his work, and so I feel that I can logically trust that at least much of MBT is "true." That consciousness is fundamental, for example, had "occured" to me on one of the first times I'd tried marijuana. I realized (as I was staring at the perfectly clear, blue sky) the neutral "observer" behind everything that is Cole Randall ("behind" my body, personality, ego etc.). Suddenly I made the "consciousness connection" and realized "[My consciousness... is the same consciousness... as everyone else's consciousness... that's it!]".. or something along those lines. I'm sure I had read something on quantum physics, I know I was already into philosophy and writing my 'thoughts and insights' down, but somehow I had yet to "realize" the ineffability of consciousness. Of course my first intuitive reaction to the experience was that "consciousness is infinite"- but (obviously) Tom's theory logically disagrees with this, as in his view- a real system must be finite... and "infinite" is just a 'cap' (or a place holder word for the limit) on our conceptualizations. Again, who knows who's insights are more accurate... the Advaitist, or the Physicist? That consciousness is "apparently" infinite is the only thing I know for sure.

:)

Anyway- what did you think of the interview bette?

Cole

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 Post subject: Re: Drugs
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:43 am 
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Hi Cole
The interview, finally found your question again. I couldn't, can't understand what is being said clearly. I am not attending to it properly so will try again some other time. I do like these though.

I found, through a video NonPhiniox posted of comedian Bill Hicks, such an interesting video. I'll put it here and then try and find the other thread where drugs are discussed to post it all well. I imagine many may find this entertaining at least. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSH6ofHbeUw&NR=1
Love
Bette

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 Post subject: Re: Drugs
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:46 am 
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Guys,

Awesome video series on Drugs by Allan Watts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyTzLkQi ... re=related

(I promise, I don't go around trying to find all these things on "drugs"-- but they do seem to fall right into my lap... Enjoy :) )


Cole

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