I recently watched on cable tv a food show, Anthony Bourdane (spelling?) No Reservations. He went on a seal hunt with natives in Alaska. They took their seal into the kitchen of the home, put a tarp on the kitchen floor and the entire family kids and all sat around the floor cutting and eating this seals parts raw. It was a blood mess and they had blood all over their faces, kids and all. Seemed perfectly normal, everyday eating behavior. Some people...:0

Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

I am sorry if I sounded pretentious in any way. I know some people take vegans as pretentious people but I assure you my intentions are pure. And again, my use of language is limited here, my first language is French.

I only became vegan about two months ago. Before, I was eating a lot of meat. About two months ago I was exposed to a rich source of information that made me realize the unnecessary cruelty that was going on. In becoming vegan I lost my arrogance, I humbled in taking all the suffering I was exposed to, understanding my part in the problem. I still wake up in during the night in sweat and I feel sorry for every being that was tortured and killed for my pleasure. All I am trying to do now, is to be a voice for the victims who don't have one.

If you ask me to identify what we need in our diet, I would say all the nutrients (protein, carbohydrates, fibers ...). I would also say we need good tasting food, and food is usually flavored with herbs and spices and fruits. I can't deny that food is a very cultural thing, and that is why we invented the "veggy-dog" and "veggy-burger", because they are familiar foods that we go for, not for the meat, but for the familiarity. I think that there is a way to make our cultures to gravitate back to there origins, a plant based diet.
I dont want to get into a deep conversation on sexuality here but if you ask me the need in our sexual life, I think it goes way beyond what you enumerated. But I just don't see why this becomes such an important subject when it involves no cruel treatments of beings.

Also, I agree with you that one can get used to eating near corpses, but do we really want to live in a world that desensitized? I encourage anyone to get informed on the psychological damage of which slaughter house workers suffer. Would our desensitization to corpses render us more capable of murder?

I live in Japan and I was eating a lot of sushi at kaiten-sushi restaurants (where the plates turn around on a conveyor belt and you just take what you want to eat). Let me tell you that the cook in the center is well placed so that none of the client sees the fish carcass and only the nice red cube, almost resembling marshmallow.

And to bette,
Again, I think it makes no sense comparing us with cave men and intuits to justify our actions. Why should we take more from nature than needed? (intuits are another thing all together, I come from Canada and heard a lot about there problems, much of which we caused them, anyways not getting into that )

If the choice of a plant based diet are not motivated by the suffering of the animals, it can be supported by the non-feasibility of a meat industry and the huge impact on the environment. Or for our own personal health; a lot of diseases are originated by the ingestion of meat and dairy.

Sorry for the length,
Seb

_________________
I'm just curious

Shin said: 1. Sex is not needed for the survival of the individual.

Bette: That's truth for sure or I'd be dead ;).

I imagine or want to be recalling life as one of the first humans, Neanderthal included there, with finding an animal after a fire, cooked. The smell of cooked meat protein is definitely an appetite activator to those who eat meat protein.

Seb spoke of my example of cultural differences in eating behaviors as cavemen type actions, it was odd seeing this happening in a 21rst century dwelling rather than a cave. My mention was a cultural reference rather than justification, who am I to justify? That is not my intent.

As Tom says everything has a level or quality of consciousness; Itzhak Bentov also goes there with rocks having the ability to raise there level of consciousness as far as a little bit into the level of plants, but that's it for the rock. The plant then grows its consciousness a little bit into the level animals have, the levels overlap a bit at both edges of their respective level or quality of consciousness, animals and humans sharing some of the consciousness space as well. A plant could grow it's level of consciousness by being food just as Bentov's rock gain props for being useful, therefore since it is all the same just different levels of quality, an animal could raise its level by being food for humans or other animals besides humans because we are all in this together. Survival in order to grow the AUO quality of itself, pick your method of intake fuel, and be nice to it while it is getting ready to show off for you with its usefulness. The key is being nice to your food, I believe. I recall airatarians who survived on air, googling them now shows me people concerned with the carbon dioxide they expel, again it takes all kinds.

This might be inappropriate but I'm going with it, a joke of sorts. It goes, "I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals, I am one because I hate vegetables!" (I really love veggies, but you knew that)

Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Shin said: 1. Sex is not needed for the survival of the individual.

Bette: That's truth for sure or I'd be dead ;).

I imagine or want to be recalling life as one of the first humans, Neanderthal included there, with finding an animal after a fire, cooked. The smell of cooked meat protein is definitely an appetite activator to those who eat meat protein.

Seb spoke of my example of cultural differences in eating behaviors as cavemen type actions, it was odd seeing this happening in a 21rst century dwelling rather than a cave. My mention was a cultural reference rather than justification, who am I to justify? That is not my intent.

As Tom says everything has a level or quality of consciousness; Itzhak Bentov also goes there with rocks having the ability to raise their level of consciousness as far as a little bit into the level of plants, but that's it for the rock. The plant then grows its consciousness a little bit into the level animals have, the levels overlap a bit at both edges of their respective level or quality of consciousness, animals and humans sharing some of the consciousness space as well. A plant could grow it's level of consciousness by being food just as Bentov's rock gain props for being useful, therefore since it is all the same just different levels of quality, an animal could raise its level by being food for humans or other animals besides humans because we are all in this together. Survival in order to grow the AUO quality of itself, pick your method of intake fuel, and be nice to it while it is getting ready to show off for you with its usefulness. The key is being nice to your food, I believe. I recall airatarians who survived on air, googling them now shows me people concerned with the carbon dioxide they expel, again it takes all kinds.

This might be inappropriate but I'm going with it, a joke of sorts. It goes, "I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals, I am one because I hate vegetables!" (I really love veggies, but you knew that)

Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

bette thanks I completely forgot about the Inuit. Saw another show that they were eating rotten fish, or wale... I think. Here's the show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d8EymQPiqk

sebastien: "I am sorry if I sounded pretentious in any way. I know some people take vegans as pretentious people but I assure you my intentions are pure. And again, my use of language is limited here, my first language is French."

No it's me, I can come off sounding like an ass do to my poor communications skills. Do my best to head that perception off before it gets started.

sebastien: "I dont want to get into a deep conversation on sexuality here but if you ask me the need in our sexual life, I think it goes way beyond what you enumerated. But I just don't see why this becomes such an important subject when it involves no cruel treatments of beings."

This is an example of my poor ability to communicate, sorry for that. It was a poor attempt to express my understanding of Global truth, that which is true for everyone, and local truth, that which is true for the individual (opinion, and preference). My uneasiness comes from trying to establish a dialog between Christians and Muslims long ago. Each of them were firmly entrenched in their beliefs, and would not compromise one bit to discuss inconsistencies. However they sure loved pointing out the inconsistencies of the others' faith. Because of this I imagined a person who is passionate about eating meat, and a vegan would never agree on anything, but end up endlessly arguing for the sake of their own preferences. I didn't want to say that before because it sounds as if your unable, or unwilling to except any truth beyond your current view. That is not my intent, but a failure to communicate. It also shows that I tend to expect and outcome before anything is ever achieved, and on top of that you may very well be one hundred percent right. So I'm going to stick my foot in my mouth, and quietly listen.

sebastien: "About two months ago I was exposed to a rich source of information that made me realize the unnecessary cruelty that was going on. In becoming vegan I lost my arrogance, I humbled in taking all the suffering I was exposed to, understanding my part in the problem. I still wake up in during the night in sweat and I feel sorry for every being that was tortured and killed for my pleasure. All I am trying to do now, is to be a voice for the victims who don't have one."

Would you be willing to tell us more. I'm really interested in the cruelty part. Also could you, if it's not to much trouble, tell us what you eat on a normal bases. Thank you,

Shin

BTW you guys post to fast, can't keep up >.>

All I know is that from my point of view I do not want to eat the poor animals , I am sorry but I like them and that is it, I am not a full vegan yet but I am on my way, slowly but surely.
As far as lacking some nutrients from this decision does concern me, but it also concerns me to eat animals that have been injected hormones.So either way I don't win, if I eat the animal I may be intaking chemicals that could do more damage than help, if I don't eat the animal I may lack some good nutrients. Sounds like a catch 22 to me.

No, I do not crave animals, I crave the sauces as Sebastien said although I do know that a good Ribeye medium rare is very good as far as taste but still I don't crave it.

What I want to know once and for all is not the answers from other people ( I love you all but all these I have heard before) what I want to know is the answers from the other side, my higher self or whoever has the "real" truth about what is the right thing to do.

As far as my higher self I think he/she/it is content with the idea of not eating animals and that is OK."If" I am doing a good job at reading my body that is.

Nelly said: "what I want to know is the answers from the other side, my higher self or whoever has the "real" truth about what is the right thing to do."

Hi Nelly,
After intaking the MBT trilogy you should have enough instruction so that with effort you can achieve your desired answer, as I understand it.

Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Thank you to anyone and everyone who shows interest and is willing to inform themselves.

For information about animal cruelty, I recommend the books "slaughterhouse" by Gail A. Eisnitz and "Diet for a New America" by John Robbins
Those website:
http://www.mercyforanimals.org/norco/
http://www.afa-online.org/literature.html
(and more on your favorite search engine)
You can also watch the movie "meet your meat" by PETA,
And if you like podcasts, you can listen to this one; just search "vegetarian food for thought" in itunes. The subject varies from animal cruelties and tips on how to live a healthy, happy vegan live.

There are tons of information out there it is just not advertised as much as beef and ice cream, I wonder why ...

_________________
I'm just curious

Oh, and about what I eat, I am happy you asked,
Lately I reconnected with the joy of cooking, and the Internet is just full of animal-free recopies, all you need to do is search for them.
For example tonight was black been chilly rice with avocado (I don't know if you find the combination weird but in Japan we eat rice almost every meals), and for desert a pumpkin sweet and spice bread. It was delicious!
Here's the chilly: http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/Super-Mois ... etail.aspx
and the desert: http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/Super-Mois ... etail.aspx

_________________
I'm just curious

Shin said: 1. Sex is not needed for the survival of the individual.

Bette: That's truth for sure or I'd be dead ;).

Cherie;
When would you have time anyway bette!....

Cherie;
When would you have time anyway bette!....

True Cherie, I'd be like, hold that thought I need to go check for new posts.

oh, new toys, this must be the bbcode thingie with the buttons up top and color charts off to the side, pretty.;)

Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Hi everyone,

Thanks for this thread ... got me thinking :-)

I can see myself moving my diet towards a vegetarian one - as it makes sense to me both health wise and ethically (which wasn't a reason I had considered prior to reading this thread).

However, I have found in the past that pulses and legumes create a huge bloated feeling within my body, and create lots of wind, shall we say :-) I have heard this is a very common problem with bean type foods, and I have tried all the solutions I can find - soaking the beans overnight, par-boiling them first, then draining that water off and finishing the cooking in a fresh batch of water. Neither of these solutions seems to help me.

Any tips would be much appreciated!!

LS

Hi LS

http://www.wisegeek.com/will-adding-bak ... ulence.htm ;)

Thynes

Hi Thynes,

Thanks for the link - nice name "wise geek" ;-)

You prompted me to do my own Google search too, and that was pretty helpful. It would also be good to hear of anybody's "home remedies" for beans, which they find useful...

Thanks
LS

LS:

Rather than add a chemical to the cooking process, whether it works or not, consider "Beano", a digestive enzyme supplement for the digestion of complex carbohydrates. It should help you get more out of these foods in the way of nutritional value with better digestion.
http://www.beanogas.com/

Never taken this as I seem to have adequate enzymes. Many adults have problems with lactose and can't eat milk products or only with pre digested lactose. Many adults loose the lactose digesting enzyme as they age but I do not have this problem. But somehow I cannot eat beef without major problems to the point of a systemic reaction at times. Beano is relatively cheap as I remember from seeing it in the grocery store aisle. And I have known people that take it with success.

Ted