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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:03 am 
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kroeran wrote:
Occupy a commercial kitchen! Love it

If it is possible, try to develop your product and find your market from your personal kitchen, before signing a lease.

Let sales drive overhead, don't commit to overhead before you find your market
I'm developing in my kitchen but any retail product I would rent the city's kitchen, or one of the lodge's around here. I'm using a toaster oven too since the regular oven gave up the thermostat awhile back; small batches. I'll let other businesses sell them (or Katie will if she wants to get into it) and ship from online orders. The products will be sturdy not requiring refrigeration dense healthy yummy meals. Like many health bars only using malted barley powder as added sweetener but it's also a flour too so I'm interested in how that will work out. The syrup and the powder/flour might come into play. I've got some interesting ingredients coming here:
Nutritional Yeast, 8 oz.

Nutritional Yeast, 8 oz.
In Stock
SKU: 231215

$4.25

Remove

Bee Pollen, 2 oz.

Bee Pollen, 2 oz.
In Stock
SKU: NF47104

$1.69

Remove

Cocoa Butter, 1 oz.

Cocoa Butter, 1 oz.
In Stock
SKU: CK76-3301

$2.25

Remove

Hyssop, 1 oz.

Hyssop, 1 oz.
In Stock
SKU: FNP988

$1.39

Remove

Lemon Peel Granules, 1 oz.

Lemon Peel Granules, 1 oz.
In Stock
SKU: FNP2536

$2.00

Remove

Lemon Grass, 1 oz.

Lemon Grass, 1 oz.
In Stock
SKU: FNP596

$1.29

Remove

Rooibos, 1 oz.

Rooibos, 1 oz.
In Stock
SKU: FNP953

$1.39

Remove

Graham Flour, 1 lb.

Graham Flour, 1 lb.
In Stock
SKU: N5724

$2.00

Remove

Keoke Coffee - Kahlua Flavoring, 1 dram

Keoke Coffee - Kahlua Flavoring, 1 dram
In Stock
SKU: CK42-2410

$1.47

Remove

Mung Beans, 1 lb.

Mung Beans, 1 lb.
In Stock
SKU: 060055

$3.19

Remove

Baking Yeast, 8 oz.

Baking Yeast, 8 oz.
In Stock
SKU: 230582

$2.50

Remove

Oats, Whole Groats, 1 lb.

Oats, Whole Groats, 1 lb.
In Stock
SKU: 080159

$2.50

Remove



Lime Oil Flavoring, 1 dram

Lime Oil Flavoring, 1 dram
In Stock
SKU: CK42-2110

$1.47

Remove

Amaranth Flour, 1 lb.

Amaranth Flour, 1 lb.
In Stock
SKU: N5023

$3.75

Remove

Garbanzo Bean Flour, 1 lb.

Garbanzo Bean Flour, 1 lb.
In Stock
SKU: N5716

$3.00

Remove

Casava Flour, 1 lb.

Casava Flour, 1 lb.
In Stock
SKU: IF20148

$3.00

Remove



Teff Flour, 1 lb.

Teff Flour, 1 lb.
In Stock
SKU: B1534

$4.00

Remove

Buttermilk Powder, 1lb.

Buttermilk Powder, 1lb.
In Stock
SKU: N4453

$6.00

Remove



Potato Flour, 1 lb.

Potato Flour, 1 lb.
In Stock
SKU: 030572

$2.50

Remove

Tomato Flakes, 2 oz.

Tomato Flakes, 2 oz.
In Stock
SKU: FNP2005

$1.79

Remove

Plantain Flour, 1 lb.

Plantain Flour, 1 lb.
In Stock
SKU: IF91875

$2.69

Remove

Himalayan Red Rice, 1 lb.

Himalayan Red Rice, 1 lb.
In Stock
SKU: IF91811

$2.59

Remove

Green Tea Liquid Concentrate, 12 oz.

Green Tea Liquid Concentrate, 12 oz.
In Stock
SKU: P101

$3.39

Remove

Dry Fondant, 1 lb.

Dry Fondant, 1 lb.
In Stock
SKU: CK76-5501

$2.79

Remove

Almond Meal Flour, 1 lb.

Almond Meal Flour, 1 lb.
In Stock
SKU: B4999-1

$8.49

Remove

Barley Malt Powder, 1 lb.

Barley Malt Powder, 1 lb.
In Stock
SKU: 210512

$2.89

Remove

Sweet Potato Flour, 1 lb.

Sweet Potato Flour, 1 lb.
In Stock
SKU: IF20478

$3.00

Remove


Love
Bette

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:20 pm 
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Watch a very special show that will be televised nationally and streamed online live February 21, 9 p.m. Eastern / 6 p.m. Pacific time. Here is the link to sign up and apparently get a link to watch it on line at that time. http://act.rebuildthedream.com/sign/tea ... source=taf

It's a "National Teach-In to Take Back the American Dream," and I invite you to watch online!

The show will feature a remarkable panel of thinkers and leaders, and I'm honored to be a part of it. Former Secretary of Labor Robert Reich, Heather McGhee of Demos, businessman Leo Hindrey Jr., Campaign for America's Future co-director Robert Borosage, and I will share the real story about our economic crisis:

How corporations broke the law in their reckless pursuit of greed
What policies made it legal for banks to gamble with the stability of the global economy
Why so many millions were thrown out of their homes, or left to drown in underwater mortgages
Why our government won't act to create jobs, even though the economists who saw the crisis coming know exactly what we need to do

This program is brought to you by Rebuild the Dream in partnership with Free Speech TV, "The Big Picture with Thom Hartmann," and the Campaign for America's Future.

Join us to learn how to tell the true story of the economic mess to the American people and what we can do next.

Ted


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:13 am 
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bette wrote:
kroeran wrote:
Occupy a commercial kitchen! Love it

If it is possible, try to develop your product and find your market from your personal kitchen, before signing a lease.

Let sales drive overhead, don't commit to overhead before you find your market
I'm developing in my kitchen but any retail product I would rent the city's kitchen, or one of the lodge's around here. I'm using a toaster oven too since the regular oven gave up the thermostat awhile back; small batches. I'll let other businesses sell them (or Katie will if she wants to get into it) and ship from online orders. The products will be sturdy not requiring refrigeration dense healthy yummy meals. Like many health bars only using malted barley powder as added sweetener but it's also a flour too so I'm interested in how that will work out. The syrup and the powder/flour might come into play. I've got some interesting ingredients coming here:
Nutritional Yeast, 8 oz.

Nutritional Yeast, 8 oz.
In Stock
SKU: 231215

$4.25

Remove

Bee Pollen, 2 oz.

Bee Pollen, 2 oz.
In Stock
SKU: NF47104

$1.69

Remove

Cocoa Butter, 1 oz.

Cocoa Butter, 1 oz.
In Stock
SKU: CK76-3301

$2.25

Remove

Hyssop, 1 oz.

Hyssop, 1 oz.
In Stock
SKU: FNP988

$1.39

Remove

Lemon Peel Granules, 1 oz.

Lemon Peel Granules, 1 oz.
In Stock
SKU: FNP2536

$2.00

Remove

Lemon Grass, 1 oz.

Lemon Grass, 1 oz.
In Stock
SKU: FNP596

$1.29

Remove

Rooibos, 1 oz.

Rooibos, 1 oz.
In Stock
SKU: FNP953

$1.39

Remove

Graham Flour, 1 lb.

Graham Flour, 1 lb.
In Stock
SKU: N5724

$2.00

Remove

Keoke Coffee - Kahlua Flavoring, 1 dram

Keoke Coffee - Kahlua Flavoring, 1 dram
In Stock
SKU: CK42-2410

$1.47

Remove

Mung Beans, 1 lb.

Mung Beans, 1 lb.
In Stock
SKU: 060055

$3.19

Remove

Baking Yeast, 8 oz.

Baking Yeast, 8 oz.
In Stock
SKU: 230582

$2.50

Remove

Oats, Whole Groats, 1 lb.

Oats, Whole Groats, 1 lb.
In Stock
SKU: 080159

$2.50

Remove



Lime Oil Flavoring, 1 dram

Lime Oil Flavoring, 1 dram
In Stock
SKU: CK42-2110

$1.47

Remove

Amaranth Flour, 1 lb.

Amaranth Flour, 1 lb.
In Stock
SKU: N5023

$3.75

Remove

Garbanzo Bean Flour, 1 lb.

Garbanzo Bean Flour, 1 lb.
In Stock
SKU: N5716

$3.00

Remove

Casava Flour, 1 lb.

Casava Flour, 1 lb.
In Stock
SKU: IF20148

$3.00

Remove



Teff Flour, 1 lb.

Teff Flour, 1 lb.
In Stock
SKU: B1534

$4.00

Remove

Buttermilk Powder, 1lb.

Buttermilk Powder, 1lb.
In Stock
SKU: N4453

$6.00

Remove



Potato Flour, 1 lb.

Potato Flour, 1 lb.
In Stock
SKU: 030572

$2.50

Remove

Tomato Flakes, 2 oz.

Tomato Flakes, 2 oz.
In Stock
SKU: FNP2005

$1.79

Remove

Plantain Flour, 1 lb.

Plantain Flour, 1 lb.
In Stock
SKU: IF91875

$2.69

Remove

Himalayan Red Rice, 1 lb.

Himalayan Red Rice, 1 lb.
In Stock
SKU: IF91811

$2.59

Remove

Green Tea Liquid Concentrate, 12 oz.

Green Tea Liquid Concentrate, 12 oz.
In Stock
SKU: P101

$3.39

Remove

Dry Fondant, 1 lb.

Dry Fondant, 1 lb.
In Stock
SKU: CK76-5501

$2.79

Remove

Almond Meal Flour, 1 lb.

Almond Meal Flour, 1 lb.
In Stock
SKU: B4999-1

$8.49

Remove

Barley Malt Powder, 1 lb.

Barley Malt Powder, 1 lb.
In Stock
SKU: 210512

$2.89

Remove

Sweet Potato Flour, 1 lb.

Sweet Potato Flour, 1 lb.
In Stock
SKU: IF20478

$3.00

Remove


Love
Bette


be mindful that making product is easy - finding or creating a context where customers are willing to hand you money is the challenge...and the opportunity. If you can find a context....you are liberated.

corporations have virtually all of these channels locked up, so you have to be on the look-out for the small niches of the economy where consumers hand money over $ to the self employed

this is not to be negative...more to say...keep trying things, and keep it scaled so that you can keep trying things and failing, till you notice something that might work, as far as the marketing in particular

some successful entrepreneurs will even test out product marketing before the product exists, knowing it is the marketing that is the hardest part - like advertising a product...see if there is any uptake, but respond with "sold out" or "not yet available".

others will write contracts on services they know little about, if there is an opportunity....knowing that any contract to provide any service or product is "gold". Book the business...figure-it-out-later approach...which is counter intuitive but there is a message there.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:06 am 
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Quote:
others will write contracts on services they know little about, if there is an opportunity....knowing that any contract to provide any service or product is "gold". Book the business...figure-it-out-later approach...which is counter intuitive but there is a message there.
Unfortunately this is more in line with the big business approach. Advertising products that never meet the hype, even if you do eventually produce them.

Bette is figuring out a product that is real before she tries to sell it. And the kind of store that sells such products is a standard, the little bake shop where you get delicious breads and other things that corporate mass production bakers cannot make and have no interest in making. If you locate it in a decent place, locals will buy. If the product is good enough, the word will spread. Corporate bakers go in for heavy sugar, the very thing that Bette seems to want to stay away from. The very thing that has made obesity such a problem here in America and in other developed countries as well. By the list of ingredients considered and comments made, it is intended that the nutrition will produce the flavor, not some chemicals and lots of sugar. Sounds like a good idea to me.

Ted


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:44 am 
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yes, one can definitely get carried away with effectiveness, neglecting good intent - I am just trying to add effectiveness thinking to this excellent intent

the key take-away is that very few people try to start a business, which is to be commended, in particular if one is unemployed with few options, and of those few, only a small sub-set puts the engine in front of the caboose, which is ensuring you have access to the customer, and that you can provide a context the customer will accept - a good or great product is only one aspect - and there are a hundred things you need to execute almost perfectly to sell and extract a profit when all is said and done. This is much much harder than it looks.

in the above model, the customer is actually the local shop, who has created the customer channel and owns it. A great product that customers will buy is only part of the equation. Bette also has to "control the deal"

part of controlling the deal is asking...why does the shop need me? will they steal my idea? what value do I provide to the channel owner? is the shop owner ethical? (low entropy) Is my intent aligned with the intent of the shop owner? will the owner understand the product?

The local bakeshop will tend to make their own stuff, and the supermarket will only work with corporate multiproduct suppliers. This is not to be negative...rather...to say...a great deal of thought and maybe trial and error will have to go into finding a pathway to customers...and this could take months or years. My initial instinct would be a table at a flee market as a starting point to get direct customer interaction. You might also wish to market to TOE-heads here. This could also be the beginning of an entire line of TOEism's version of "kosher" foods. Be open to where the yellow brick road leads.

This suggests developing one simple product rapidly, and using that sample, in final packaged form, to find a marketing niche. The path is hard, but the rewards are large for those who persevere.

the most effective attitude is "I will work hard and try this, I will at the very least learn some things, maybe see other opportunities, and I will keep trying"

I am proceeding on the assumption that this is a serious initiative. I think this must be framed as "I will find a way to be self employed", rather than limiting it to "I will sell this particular product". I would reframe it as the beginning of a process.

and more generally...rather than ask "what product do I wish to provide", a better question is "what product or service do people find hard to get in my area"

capitalism is not kindergarten - it is very dog eat dog, and openly so, and salary/wage people are always shocked at the change in ruleset when they try to sell directly to the market.

while capitalism is very hard...socialism is a nightmare

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Last edited by kroeran on Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:23 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:19 am 
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Ted Vollers wrote:
Quote:
others will write contracts on services they know little about, if there is an opportunity....knowing that any contract to provide any service or product is "gold". Book the business...figure-it-out-later approach...which is counter intuitive but there is a message there.
Unfortunately this is more in line with the big business approach. Advertising products that never meet the hype, even if you do eventually produce them.

Bette is figuring out a product that is real before she tries to sell it. And the kind of store that sells such products is a standard, the little bake shop where you get delicious breads and other things that corporate mass production bakers cannot make and have no interest in making. If you locate it in a decent place, locals will buy. If the product is good enough, the word will spread. Corporate bakers go in for heavy sugar, the very thing that Bette seems to want to stay away from. The very thing that has made obesity such a problem here in America and in other developed countries as well. By the list of ingredients considered and comments made, it is intended that the nutrition will produce the flavor, not some chemicals and lots of sugar. Sounds like a good idea to me.

Ted
Bette, It sounds like a good idea to me too. The no sugar really got my interest, I tried cutting mt sugar intake out completely, Long before I came across Toms crusade against sugar, I had good results but his mindset of zero tolerance is one that seems to really work. You do feel better, And your weight is much more manageable. I think that alone (no sugar) is a great selling point, not to mention the other natural products which also have very good a-peel. Seems like a great idea for chocolate lovers everywhere. Go for it! Fred searching for truth


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:50 am 
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I just found out last night that Hissop is naturally sweet from watching a news special on a group called "The Makers" pr just "Makers" that is very much like that "human potential incubator" thing I want(ed) to happen. I got it for medicinal quality. I would NEVER try getting orders to then say I didn't have any, EVER. How rude. :)
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:39 pm 
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just reporting what I have seen

you could modify the approach by inviting people to pre-order and see if you get any interest

the key message is that you need to focus on finding your market...most greenhorn "inventors" invest years of work and their life savings, before actually testing to see if customers want the product, or if they can find access to customers

the sooner you interact with customers, the better. Watching reruns of Trump's apprentice might actually be helpful to develop your entrepreneurial mind.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:43 pm 
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Gerald Celente speaking on OWS and NDAA, other things.

http://beforeitsnews.com/story/1776/988 ... _2012.html

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:02 pm 
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I mostly don't care for the 'list' articles you see everywhere these days ("Ten reasons that this...." "20 reasons that that"..., etc.)

This one, though, despite its additionally annoying plaintive tone refers to some surprising statistics though....

10 Signs That America Is Decomposing Right In Front Of Our Eyes
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/arch ... f-our-eyes

The decay of society is so much harder to quantify than economic decline is. The government keeps lots of statistics on things like unemployment and inflation, but it really does not keep track of how sick and twisted people are becoming. .......

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:11 pm 
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I've been saying for awhile that any society that allows much less mandates for profit health insurance is a devolving society and that is just one aspect I imagine.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:56 pm 
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About the republican candidates tax plan proposals, and lack of...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/ ... al_comboNP

I don't think Obama's are any better though. Ron Paul's seems to be the only one with real cuts.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:10 pm 
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Lumpy,

What you and most everyone seems to forget is that we had budget surpluses within the past 15 years and Congress blew them away. Not by spending drastically more money but by cutting tax rates. Now they fight against reinstating any of them. If they don't fix taxation, other than by doing away with it, we will have half the 99% below the poverty line and no 'middle class' and be euthanizing the elderly to cut back on SS and Medicare. I am exaggerating but not by that much. Obama's plan at least tried to broaden the tax base on corporations by eliminating loop holes.

Ted


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:25 pm 
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bette wrote:
I've been saying for awhile that any society that allows much less mandates for profit health insurance is a devolving society and that is just one aspect I imagine.
Love
Bette
You are right Bette our health care is going no where in healing, Just treating, That is a good way to keep a money making machine going. This lowest form of greed is what I think is going to be our down fall to devolution. I don't see our current system of democracy falling a bad thing in the long run, Just a necessary thing to get us on the right path. Fred searching for truth


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:11 pm 
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Ted Vollers wrote:
Lumpy,

What you and most everyone seems to forget is that we had budget surpluses within the past 15 years and Congress blew them away. Not by spending drastically more money but by cutting tax rates. Now they fight against reinstating any of them. If they don't fix taxation, other than by doing away with it, we will have half the 99% below the poverty line and no 'middle class' and be euthanizing the elderly to cut back on SS and Medicare. I am exaggerating but not by that much. Obama's plan at least tried to broaden the tax base on corporations by eliminating loop holes.

Ted


The economy wasn't as bad the last 15 years though so it is a lot different. I don't think a new tax plan will help much unless we cut spending at the same time, and by a lot more than most of the candidates are proposing. I have no problem with closing the favoritism gap between government and corporations though. We really need to tackle the debt, and soon, in my opinion too. It's not just the elderly we have to be compassionate about, but my generation as well, because if we keep it up people my age and younger might not be even a fraction as wealthy as we are now when they get older. I am worried about long term more than short term, or rather both together rather than just passing more debt and problems on to the the next in line like we have been. I just don't see how it can end up good without changing direction sooner rather than later when it could possibly come down on top of us without much notice at all.

Don't take this the wrong way but I wouldn't be so quick to defend Obama just because he has a (D) next to his name, is presidential looking, and talks a good game, because he is definitely not an angel. That being said, the other side of the spectrum hasn't been the best either.


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