The practice of magical ritual is not something i can claim to be knowledgeable about although it is a topic which i am intreagued by. I have a friend who is into the practice of elementary magic and after reviewing some text on the attached link am interested to know whether it would be percieved by the folk on here as being intergratable with my big toe practise and concepts. From what I can gather it provides the means for harnessing the forces of pure elementary archetypes to gain clarity and personal growth, and aide with ones development and understanding.

As a suggestion of where to start on the path to spiritual growth Tom provides a technique for beginners meditation using a mantra or whatever suits as a means for expanding ones awareness. While I understand the difference between negative entropy reduction (control/acting) and the positive, becoming a genuine embodiment of love, I cant see that the use of these kind of ancient ritualistic practices would be detromental to ones growth, provided they were used in conjuction with the right inent.

It is something that interests me and I am considering finding out more about, before I do however am i missing something? Or is this path just as valid as any other if it achieves what it sets out to in a positive way?

If anyone with any knowledge in this area could review the link and offer some thoughts I would be most gratefull. :)

Sam

http://www.jwmt.org/v1n0/LBRParticle.htm

I know someone who is into magical rituals, not in detail as to how they practice, but to know that they do so and that they learned it from a psychotic and minor anti rat as Tom would call them, a real control freak. Psychotic however and not one with real control of himself, only others. Many things are methods for focusing Intent. This method for focusing intent however has a great deal of negative aspects in terms of demonic concepts and demon based rituals. The calling up of earth powers and such foolishness. This has no connection with My Big TOE. I see it as a way to become locked into a reliance on ritual, a method, over any real understanding. If all of the symbology of the ritual is negative and how else can I phrase it but 'hokey', how is the ritual ever likely to get you anywhere positive in terms of a true understanding? The whole metaphysical base of 'magic' and its purpose is false.

Ted

I would tend to agree with you Ted, and must admit in the past had labelled such activities as 'hokey' but doing so in personal ignorance. I dont think the fact that these methods hold some power can be called into question. The sheer popularity of magical ritual and the history of practice for thousands of years must serve as a testiment to its effectiveness. From what i understand there are those that choose to practice what is referred to as the dark or left-side of magic, a discipline mainly concerned with the manipulation of others voodoo and such like. Although for the majority, the ultimate purpose is to gain greater understanding of oneself in order to assist humanity. I think a number of parallels can be drawn between the concepts discussed in the text provided and those in My big toe, the method varies but ultimate purpose and intent seems the same. The invocation of elementary forces must be possible in My big toe terms as it is calling upon the archatypel data of which our universe is constructed, as one may call on a thought-form or a guide for insipiration?

I can understand how if ritual is relied upon it can ultimately be detromental, however I believe the idea is that it is used as a tool like any other while it is required with the emphasis on letting go when it is no longer neccesary. similar to other meditation rituals.

What specific parallels? What archetypes do you consider our reality to be based upon? I am not aware of any in My Big TOE unless you are choosing to redefine things like the Void and Indras Net/the RWW as archetypes. These do not however meet the usual definitions of archetypes in my opinion. These have always been real things that have been accessed by mystics over millennia and not archetypes.

Ted

From what I can gather the rituals are based upon energetic elementary archatypes that posses the potential to effect observing conciousness if that consciousness is able to succesfully harness its pure energy. As I say I am not hugely knowledgeable on the matter but for this reason i struggle to dismiss it without knowing more.

The parralells I'm referring to are to do with the ultimate value that is based upon self realisation and spiritual growth with the aim of making contact with spiritual guides as an interface to our big C conciousness. This is described as the ultimate aim of magical ritual, contact with the divine 'gaurdian angel'.

The person in question i hold in high regard in terms of intelligence and do not feel he would prescribe to a methodology that he did not find wholly useful. I see how a process such as magical ritual may be deemed unconventional but can it not be construed as a valid, albeit different approach to spiritual growth?

Making contact with a guardian angel might be a primary aim of magical rituals but it is far from being a primary aspect of learning and developing one's Quality of Consciousness from the point of view of MBT. Tom has pointed out that the idea of guides as specific entities eventually gives way to simply being in contact with the Larger Consciousness System. It is a secondary thing at best as an aid and never a primary goal.

There are no 'energetic elementary archetypes' and we do not 'harness pure energy'. These are just PMR little picture concepts. Actually, I think that magic might be considered to be very conventional in origin. We have been practicing it ever since our cave man ancestors drew pictures of their prey animals on the walls of caves with hunters attacking them and perhaps with spears stuck in their bodies. An attempt to 'call' game and assure the success of the hunt. A very primitive magic ritual. Look up sympathetic magic.

Ted

I advise against practising it, it is incredibly heavy in metaphor and people are often too much drawn into it as a belief system.

Why draw circles on the ground and and make funny body movements while saying incantations, when you can just meditate and be much less limited?

For me it is mainly the concept of harnessing forces of nature and the solar system to assist with the balancing of ones personality, for the purpose gaining insight into the optimal growth path that i find fascinating. I understand the heaviness of the implied metaphor may detract from Scientific clarity of whats actually going on, although I remain intreauged as to the effects that are spoken of from people that engage in this type of ritualistic magic. It surprises me that one could attain such insightful results in using a ritualistic practice that is not benificial to be used.

I am searching for a place to begin my own spiritual development, and having come into contact with entities and such that are malevolent i.e non-physical anti-rats, it was advised by a friend that i adopt this lesser banishing ritual, whereby gaurdian spirits are energetically summoned to safegaurd you from any unwanted influences. This is where my probing first began. From my perspective I can see that these practices would not neccesarily compromise spiritual growth as long as they were carefully utilised along with clarity of intent and mindfulness. I can not be sure however that they do not constitute an attempt to somehow control ones experience which would be a less than adavantageous way to go.

If you have experienced contact with negative non physical entities, then why not simply reject them totally. Tom has described anti rats practicing 'black magic' and that belief in them makes the victims susceptible. People have been described as having 'black magic' practiced against them but being totally oblivious to this and therefore unaffected. Then being told about it and, because they believed in it, suddenly having the attacks becoming effective since they now know that they were occurring. So you plan to mess around on the fringe of magic, giving some credence to it, in order to ward off magic. Thereby as it appears to me, opening yourself up more to this influence as you half way begin to believe in it. Not a logical approach. You would close the door but leave it cracked open, peeking out fearfully, instead of fully closed and locked. A door ajar is an invitation to entry to the unwelcome and a clear advertisement of the fact that it is not locked. You as an IUOC are invulnerable to attack, if you choose to be, from another IUOC.

Ted

"Magic" is like many another belief system in that if you 'subscribe' to it, (sort of like an internet service), you can access established forms that are like complicated, charged tools. You can create your own tools, of course, and this is preferable. There are cases though where tools are available, already in existence, and of the efficacy one needs,.... so why not? Catholicism seems to have some especially powerful tools that are just out there already charged yup and ready to go. Some of the catholic healers seem to be able to crack just about anything (See "John of God"), or if you need to sell a property, burying that little statue with a prayer seems about as effective and powerful as you could ask (Just TOO looney, how effective I have seen that work).

It is much the same with lots of kinds of established magical rituals. BUT! You really have to be careful with these, apparently, and can get into all sorts of unexpected difficulty deploying them. It's not something that I have looked into much, but have gathered something in the way of impression perusing various literature. I would still be at a loss to systematically categorize the possible dangers. A couple that I can think of off hand: You can access beings that are more powerful than you, and so, you better keep them (they have wildly different customs of values than yours) happy while they are about. You can active a form of agency that is unreflective and simply discharges an energy flavor like a battery might ... burning like a fire till it goes out. You can try to fire up circuits that require much more "power" than you have at your command ... and this can cause a nearly fatal drain on your own personal reserves. You may attract the attention of entities that have agenda not consistent with your own. On and on and on.

The idea of the use of these (various belief systems) is not inconsistent with the ideas contained MBT theory: it is simple a special case of belief system deployment. (In general MBT recommends moving beyond belief system usage, of course. ... but MBT recognizes that belief systems exist ).

As a broad and general rule, if you simply stick to your own line of evolution, aim to achieve your next objective, that is the most preferable thing.
As a broad and general rule, it is far better in the long run to design your own NPMR sensing devices and tools.

Just to give a little concrete body to this last abstraction: The idea and use of 'statistics' is a good example of an NPMR sensing device. *I* didn't design it, but I have become aware of it: It is helpful and I understand the basics of its design. But someone that DID design it or has studied it more deeply than I have could use this thing against me and I might well not know it. Same with computers ( mostly sensing devices but also agencenic devices), microwave ovens, lots of other accroutrements of modern civilization. The entire language that you speak and think in is a 'sensing device' not of your design: it both enables you and entraps you. Or, to put it differently, it creates and magnifies options that didn't previously exist while making others which did now impossible .

So it is with all sensing devices and tools which come from the outside, or which we share in common with others.

*Just my current understanding*

Montana

Oh I see now, the reason for the efficacy of these particular tools and others is that they have been 'charged', by the intent individuals for centuries. Thus giving them attributed and experienceable power. It makes perfect sense to me.

I am just unsure of the best route to take in terms of actual practice, I feel almost as though I could benefit from a belief system or at least a devised and definite practice to focus on and begin to become familiar with in order to gain more insight into my own current shortcomings and areas for work. (I realise that I have just uttered the cardinal sin)! I have attempted meditation without a huge amount of success thus far, I do find it quite difficult. I think I will try using a binaural beats recording to see if this makes any difference. I am grateful to learn why it is that these particular rituals can yield powerful results for others, previously assuming that this must be a testament to some kind of cosmic correctness. Thanks for aiding my understanding Montana. :)

Ted: You as an IUOC are invulnerable to attack, if you choose to be, from another IUOC.

I have had my chain of thought smothered (to adopt a fitting description discovered elsewhere on the board) by some entity while in deep thought over the nature of reality and those that seek to manipulate it. It was a scary experience as my vision became clouded and dark and my blood flow increased. I struggled to keep a thought in my head and must have been sending a lot of fear out. I have also had an occasion whilst attempting meditation where my thoughts were suddenly hijacked and I was bombarded with a stream of horrible images. I have also had dreams where I have been approached by beings who offer me a hand and pull me out of my body only to then turn around and attempt to frighten me by morphing into some demon. I almost see these as a fear test to gauge my progress in this area rather than an attack from another entity.

As you can imagine these episodes have not exactly helped me to conquer the fear I have now associated with the existential, I am so keen to begin effective and profitable work at addressing my shortcomings and improving my consciousness quality but I am just not so sure of the best way to go about it. If meditation and mindfulness is the advice in order to begin a natural process whereby I may eventually receive some guidance or intuative insight, then this is where I shall continue to endeavour. Is there any advice that you can offer to feel less vulnerable to the potentially dark unseen forces that I know so little about? My fear is not at zero, I wish it were but I am determined to begin on the path to reducing it.

If you could read and understand the MBT model for how we really exist as Individuated Units of Consciousness within Consciousness Space, it might reduce fear as you understand why I said you are invulnerable to attack by another IUOC. http://wiki.my-big-toe.com/index.php/Th ... _Link_Page As an IUOC you can think of yourself as that you are essentially surrounded by a moat with a draw bridge. You can simply refuse to receive information that would be harmful by raising that draw bridge and refusing access to what would harm you. Going out of body is just a matter of accepting the data stream that describes that experience. You are never in your body but rather receive the data stream that provides your PMR present experience. When you dream, you accept another data stream that represents the dream. When you visit NPMR, that is again a matter of seeking out the appropriate data stream. Read through the model, try to understand it, and see if that helps you with these concepts and in overcoming your fears.

Ted

Thanks Ted, I have read MBT. Im on my second read now and am finding the concepts are beginning to sink in a little deeper. That kind of visualisation technique could be helpful in alleviating some concerns of vulnerability. Thanks for the advice :)

dilate,

clairvoyance, clairaudience, reading cards, precognition and etc. are some side effects of one's personal development. Pursuing these skills by themselves would take you away from a main road of your self realization. Understanding who you are, becoming aware of your intent means change. This change brings those skills and others to you as a natural benefit of you personal development.

Edited. You still have to work with them, if you wish to bring those skills to a desired level.

Lena

_________________
'Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones ignorance.' Confucius.

For me I found there is only one stronger feeling than my fear - it's curiosity.

I have often had falling dreams, where I am being thrown in some dark underground room or in a narrow tunnel, and there are various nasty invisible things down there. I actually never see those things, I just feel they should be there because of the 'feeling'. The fact, that I do not see those things makes them even more scary. Like concentrated evil, it's so sinister that no visualization can represent its nature. When I am about to hit the ground, I usually wake up with a feeling of being scared to a degree where my heart is racing fast.

Some weeks ago I had a similar dream. I was in a "scary place" and at one moment I fell through the floor and then I was in a basement. Before I hit the ground, I started feeling how some nasty beings came to me and started to bite me. But this time I did not wake up. It was unpleasant, it was scary, but somehow I suddenly felt like: "Oh, man I have seen this many times, it's boring. So what's next?" At the moment when my curiosity and eager for stopping this stupid situation became stronger than my fear and desire to wake up, the dream scenario changed into something more pleasant. So, I guess, it just takes time, and at some moment you are so used to fear, that "being scared to death" starts to seem boring.

Now I think the fact that since childhood I rarely have seen something scary in my dreams, actually might be a good thing. It means I don't have many scary fantasies and ideas (although I have seen various horror movies, as any average person). In my dreams I mostly perceive fear like "pure information" coming at me, its like someone has an intent to scare me and make me myself interpret the fear into things which seem scary for me.

Regarding the original topic. One of my acquaintances asked - is it a bad thing that she likes to change rituals as often as almost every day? One day she feels a sudden urge to meditate at home. Another day she feels it would be great to visit a Catholic church. Day later she cannot stop herself from going to Orthodox church. And next day she even feels she could try some wicca.
She complained that other people consider her to be "unstable and immature individual", but she just cannot do anything about it. She likes experiencing any ritual based on what fits her current mood. And she just doesn't want to limit herself to only one certain ritual, she has to "have it all". I think, if those rituals make her feel better and do not make her to cling to any of them, then there is nothing wrong about such unusual behavior. The ritual itself is not bad (unless it involves hurting someone or doing something destructive).

Now I have a funny idea: if there would be some weird "contacting natural elemental/demonic forces" ritual which demands you to say "I love you" to ten people each day - would this ritual be bad or good? :D Saying "I love you" might bring a bit of consciousness evolution, but the purpose of "contacting demonic entities" might bring it down to more entropy.

_________________
In order to understand recursion, you must first understand recursion.