"Well, we're all our own prisons.
We each are our own wardens.
And we do our own times.
We get stuck in our own little trips.
And we kinda judge ourselves the way we do.
I can't judge nobody else.
The best thing I can do is try to judge myself and live with that.
There's only one person you can be scared of and that's yourself." -- Charles Manson

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To talk about it is to walk right by it. Accept the mystery. He had learned this from the river. To wait. To have patience. And to listen. I said to my soul be still... and wait without hope. For hope would be hope for the wrong thing

I told you he could swag....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAzaPSGu ... re=related

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All Praise to Dez Bryant "Feed tha Beast"

I would agree that when taken a face value, his ramblings hint at some form of potential (yet confused) understanding. However, his actions do not support this. Therefor, it would seem wise (in my humble opinion) to let his words exist as what they most likely are: the confused murmurings of a struggling piece of consciousness who's actions no doubt spoke louder.

This story is perhaps fitting:

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-"You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you might find... you get what you need"

I post this here because of the famous and often repeated part in red. Note also and particularly the line which follows, precisely what Charles Manson is not. Charles Manson has had a hard life and he has been building his cell and prison for all of his life. If he were free, he would still be in that cage of his mind. Cut off from other than distorted communication with others. Remember that the primary principle of My Big TOE is that our purpose here and the whole purpose of the existence of PMR is for the proper interactions of IUOCs with the preservation and production of optimum free will for all. All indications are that Charles Manson has violated that principle on a continuing and extreme basis. His operating principle is more on the order of 'do unto others and then split' in that caricature of the Golden Rule.

Richard Lovelace, the author of this poem, was in fact in prison at the time that he wrote this although not for any thing such as murder nor for so many years but just 7 weeks because of his religious convictions. Another reason to post it however is to compare the mind set as a contrast to Charles Manson. Lovelace was a poet and courtier to the English king. He was a wealthy man with inherited wealth. Charles Manson has always been a person at gutter level, just as he claims and in fact brags of. People have been in prison before for life and used that time to achieve an effective law degree and win their freedom and help others, other prisoners, with their legal work as I remember reading about. Charles Manson would appear at times to have the intelligence to do something like that but not the interest. He has apparently however used his free time, free of anything but intellectual activity in solitary confinement, to bang his head against the same cage that he has been building for himself all of his life within the limitations of his own mind and viewpoint. He has not used that freedom left to him to explore in NPMR or otherwise meditate and learn from that experience.

He has instead maintained the same approach to his life of the mind as in his previous life in the gutter. He has polished and maintained his psychosis rather than working his way out of it. If there are those outside of that prison cage who share his mental cage while not his psychosis, they have my sympathy for not having chosen more wisely in their lives. Charles Manson is not a person to be idealized in his psychotic ideation or emulated in his life choices.

Richard Lovelace. 1618–1658

To Althea, from Prison

WHEN Love with unconfinèd wings
Hovers within my gates,
And my divine Althea brings
To whisper at the grates;
When I lie tangled in her hair
And fetter'd to her eye,
The birds that wanton in the air
Know no such liberty.

When flowing cups run swiftly round
With no allaying Thames,
Our careless heads with roses bound,
Our hearts with loyal flames;
When thirsty grief in wine we steep,
When healths and draughts go free—
Fishes that tipple in the deep
Know no such liberty.

When, like committed linnets, I
With shriller throat shall sing
The sweetness, mercy, majesty,
And glories of my King;
When I shall voice aloud how good
He is, how great should be,
Enlargèd winds, that curl the flood,
Know no such liberty.

Stone walls do not a prison make,
Nor iron bars a cage;
Minds innocent and quiet take
That for an hermitage;
If I have freedom in my love
And in my soul am free,
Angels alone, that soar above,
Enjoy such liberty.

It is NOT a cultural belief that the ACTIONS of manipulation of an others free will for his own profit at their expense emitted by Manson speak louder than his words.
Love
Bette

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All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Good poem, Ted.

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I eat ego's for breakfast!
Sincerely, Ego.

I think of how CM is as kind of like a kid trying to be nice to get ungrounded. Except, he will never be ungrounded from prison in this lifetime so he uses his words to try and free himself through what others think of him. I think these types of things are common for people with big ego's. We should always be skeptical of people, no matter what the majority think of them.

_________________
I eat ego's for breakfast!
Sincerely, Ego.

I am not recommending this and have not watched it so I know nothing about it. It is however a documentary on Charles Manson and his 'family'. http://www.hulu.com/watch/161233/six-de ... er-skelter

Ted

Question: Did Charles Manson really commit murder? Even once? .... Oh really? He did? And you KNOW this for sure? OK., HOW do you know this FOR SURE? Oh. The t.v. told you. Some book told you. But you weren't actually there were you. You didn't see him murder with your own eyes, so there should ALWAYS be SOME room for doubt, especially when the accused is claiming innocence.

Do you see? THIS is where the cultural belief comes in. The ACTUAL brainwash. The actual brainwash is that OF COURSE Charles Manson is a "serial killer" "crazy mass murderer." End of story. No room for debate or other ideas.

Has the government EVER framed anyone? Has an innocent man EVER been locked up in the history of our country? Has there ever been a huge conspiracy?

This is the difference from you and me. I admit my position could be wrong in supporting Manson. You don't. You are SURE he is evil. This is the real mental illness.

Have open minded skepticism on everything, including someone you just seem to KNOW ALL ABOUT. Where you personally have ALL THE FACTS STRAIGHT.... Instead, why don't you say, you know Nathan, I will give it a one percent chance that maybe he didn't kill anyone, OR "make disciples" to kill for him. He actually got framed. He is a harmless, natural drug doing, save the environment musician beat nick who took the fall so as not to reveal what actually happened at the house the night of the murders. Which may have brought into light that some famous Hollywood names were involved.

This book is really the only one that Manson is ok with. It talks about a POSSIBLE cover up.

http://www.amazon.com/Charles-Manson-No ... 2923865065

_________________
To talk about it is to walk right by it. Accept the mystery. He had learned this from the river. To wait. To have patience. And to listen. I said to my soul be still... and wait without hope. For hope would be hope for the wrong thing

It is an excellent exercise to take up, experimentally, conceptual positions that are strongly counter to the norm.
It's what makes free minds freer .... with nice big biceps, so to speak.


The risk is that one gets in the habit of choosing extreme and emotionally charged examples, and/or then identifies with the examples instead of the stretch for freedom that is really the object of the exercise. When that happens, a solution is to operate the idea over a variety similarly objectionable characters: Can you conceive of Obama as human? How about Dick Cheney? Paris Hilton? Popeye the Sailor? Can you re-configure your conceptuality of them so that you can perceive them as conduits of some sort of 'divine goodness'...? If so, what does that say about your modeling function, or modeling functions in general?

The water runs deep here, and the undercurrents are not obvious.

Montana

Nathan,

Your recurring problem is that when someone does not agree with you, you assume that they could not have possibly considered the situation and what you see as compelling about it. This does not acknowledge that others have the right to make their own evaluation based upon their own observation and judgement. In my observation and judgement, Charles Manson clearly and repeatedly demonstrates himself to be a psychotic and only takes up the words that he does to exert a coercive and seductive effect upon his viewers and listeners or readers, those who are susceptible to this. It most certainly does not encourage me to join in any campaign to judge him to be any kind of guru or to negate the legal judgment placed upon him. His own statements, actions and demeanor make it clear to me that he is in the best place for him relative to society as life solitary confinement. He fully convinces me that he would probably commit major crimes again, if given the opportunity.

Ted

I've never been to Australia. I've heard about it from other people, seen it on TV, seen pictures of it... but I cannot be 100% certain that it exists. I can only use logic and statical data to form a probable truth about the matter. If you feel that Manson has some deep understanding that you will benefit from (that will help to grow toward love), then by all means do what you feel comfortable with. However, your drive to convince others of the importance of Manson hints at the fact that you might not be so sure about the matter yourself. Do what (to the best of you judgement) is best for you and let go the drive to convince others.

EDIT: Another thought to consider. Maybe don't attach yourself to the source of the data. If Manson has said something profound that does indeed instigate you to move in a positive direction, then that is excellent. However, it does not mean that Manson (or anybody for that matter) should be placed on a pedestal. It would be illogical to assume that because a source of data regurgitated a few bits of understanding that everything else from that source is truthful, accurate, and/or useful. This is how many religions are founded (Ellen G. White, Joseph Smith, et all). This is why MBT is not and should not become a religion or dogma. One of the primary principles within MBT is to find your own truth through your own direct experience and understanding. We can receive hints, clues, and points of guidance along the way (such as MBT, or in your case perhaps Manson), but in the end we must do all of the work, all of the learning, and all of the growing ourselves.

_________________
-"You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you might find... you get what you need"

Would be an interesting Experiment...
*Give a sample size the CM quotes and tell them he was an enlightened spiritual teacher from Guam.... Then record their reactions.
*Give a sample size the CM quotes tell them its from a serial killer Charles him self... Then record their reactions.

I think Yeahboy is Interested in this Phenomenon.


Strange next day after reading this post.
My dad, showed me this documentary about.

"The Redemption of General Buke Naked."

Is the craziest thing I ever watched. I still can't fathom it.
Had a OOBE that night, with his voice talking to me. (my skewed interpretation of probably completely different data)

I'm not sure what I'm suppose to learn from all this Morbid stuff. Personal I am not a fan.
Is this kind of stuff suppose to be avoided, or dealt with, Or try to learn something from it I don't know.

But the Movie. Follows around this General of of Liberia, Who by all accounts is the most evil man in the world.
I still can not fathom the stuff this foo did. The movie follows him around as he ask people for forgiveness. What is so strange about it and this relates to this post is the guy, Is likeable... his victims family huge him and forgive him.
I felt weird for like 2 days.

I was baffled until I found some info the DOC left out. Their Religion over their Involve human sacrifice. and cannibalism. WOW beilf systems are dangerous.
This is a very rational seems good person. Crazy

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All Praise to Dez Bryant "Feed tha Beast"

Amen to that. That was an old mythical characters name, btw, Amen.

Oh and while I am on this subject during ceremonies during times Sitchin writes about the grand poobah of the area went into the special building to get in touch with the god and where that place was was called the "Altar" and that was where the "Altar Ego" hooked up with the human representative. A much simpler explanation is this was where the person meditated and got some information from the LCS and then used it in the PMR, to me.

Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Charles Manson is a "channel", but a channel of a different kind than most think of. He's rarely fully himself--he's extremely influenced by some very lacking in Love, but actually low entropy consciousnesses. In olden terms, he's possessed, but in his case, he knows it and has worked to be such a channel.

In some ways, he reminds me a bit of some of my experiences with my bio Dad. About 6 years ago or so, i let my Dad who is alcoholic, come live with my wife and i at our place. I felt bad for him and wanted to help him out since he lost his job and had no place to go.

I'm quite intuitive and have been since i can remember. When i would see my Dad after he had been drinking a lot, i got the definite sense that he wasn't always himself and that some stuck and unloving consciousnesses were influencing him beyond the norm. It was not pretty. He would sometimes become very angry and argumentative, or would try to push buttons. One time, he got in my face in anger and i pushed him out of my space and he swung at me.

This was not fully my Dad. Alcohol had the effect on him of opening him up to consciousnesses not good for him or those around him. When he wasn't drinking, he was a kind, often considerate, sociable, gentle and spiritual kind of guy.

Well Charles Manson is like my Dad drunk, but about 10 times worse. He has attracted some very destructive and hindering influences and consciously let (or made) himself a channel of same. In some ways, it reminds me of what A.M.M. talked about his female friend on the "Rats and Anti-Rats" thread. If he is speakign the full truth about that, then his female friend is in that same process. Most people don't let themselves go that much.

Remember ever the Law that runs all VR both physical and nonphysical, Like attracts, begets, and RESONATES with Like. So many of our interactions, our perceptions, our beliefs, our relationships, etc. etc. related to that automatic and fundamental rule of the bigger rule set.

The "Reptilians" work through Manson, and they increase his psychic sensitivity and personal magnetism. He sometimes speaks very lucid and convincingly and it's usually them talking. They are master manipulators and they use partial truths laced with very limiting, destructive info, in order to accomplish that. "All war is fought through deception". All deception is best acheived through partial or half truths because partial or half truths are worse than whole lies for they can deceive even the "soul". Meaning, if there is enough truth injected into a sharing of data, those will resonate sufficiently enough with the more Love attuned aspects of self so that the intuitive warning radars do not go off. Full discrimination, full discernment is very rare in this world, because great Consciousness maturity aka more pure Love attunement is very rare in this world.

People who are unusually and very attuned to Love Consciousness are often so automatically repelled and so strongly by him, because of that Like attracts, begets, and resonates with Like Law. This is why so many people are fascinated by him, because their dark aspects connect energetically to his and they can get "hooked" this way if there isn't enough inner strength and attunement to Love consciousnesses or more expanded guidance levels.

Conversely, this is why people like Yeshua, enraged so many during his times when he was teaching and trying to uplift those around him. He was pure Light, pure Love, and the lacking in Love and dark aspects within others were scared of him and that extreme and potent Light. Contrary to the Church's dogma, he did not have thousands of followers when he was actually around and public. Most who listened to him and who didn't doubt him, were children and women, and less than a hundred men total. Not until after his resurrection did many more come to believe in him, his words, his teachings and started to follow him.

This is why he was murdered and put away, because he was 180 degrees away from Charles Manson. Very few could understand him, many called him various things like "insane, stupid, possessed of Belial, arrogant" People constantly argued with and nit picked him and his teachings in a very personal and belittling way. Some even viscerally and emotionally HATED him with a passion, and only saw red in relation to him. Many others just thought he was unbalanced and not worth listening to. Even now, many don't understand him and what he was about, and many still dislike him irrationally and without cause. Most who "like" him, don't actually like him as he was, but rather the Church's distorted image and idol version of him. The Churche's version of him is a much slower vibratory and limited version of him and his energy.

Humanity hasn't evolved that much since his times. And it's a sad comment for us, that there are many more who are closer to Charles Manson and his vibratory level who are in positions of authority, power, and influence in this world than there are those closer to Yeshua.

Again, Like attracts, begets, and likes Like. But another like Yeshua will come in the nearish future, and again will we kill a fellow human who just is trying to example and teach Love in it's purest and clearest form. This one is going through his practice runs now, so i've heard from expanded guidance. Good luck buddy, expanded Guidance and i are rooting for you.