Sounds like you are going through a lot. I am sure as you detoxify your body, you should start to gain more leeway in your control, and be able to working out the ability to maintain control over the stream. It is good that Tom gave you the advice he did, I am sure he only responds with information when he knows it will be good for someone. A lot of the times the questions I ask him go un-answered. So as I am sure you know his words are very worthy of taking seriously.

cjay,

Sounds like a lot of testing to me. ... "fear testing" ... I would say (although its just my impression)
The fact that a good portion of these experiences deal with fear is an important clue.

I needed to undergo a certain amount of "fear testing" at a very young age (dealing with fear)
Overcome your fear and you are ready for the next level
Later in life the lessons changed format. I really feel as though I was in school at some point (even receiving lectures on subjects such as " The Nature of Human Emotions"

Remember, you can never truly understand an organism OUTside of its environment. Only by observing an organism interacting in its environment can we get a sense of "who" or what it is.

Its the same with us. No matter what environment we happen to be in (PMR or NPMR) , we are inseparable from our environment. We are (in a sense) co-creators of our reality. Is this a friendly universe, or a hostile one? Were you expecting to see a particle or a wave? (lol)
Are you experiencing the entirety of the universe as something separate from you? Or do you experience the underlying unity of all things?

This is how we (and our guides) discover the true quality of our consciousness

There is no separation between the observer and what is observed. No matter what phenomena you encounter, you are not only participating in the phenomenon, you are also refining the "creation" of it.
Reality exists within consciousness. Data is received, filtered (by your knowledge, experience, beliefs, ego, fear, ect...) and interpreted subjectively.

You know the old saying... "Its not personal, its just business" ? well this is NOT business, its just personal ...LOL

Like Ted says, you could always start eating more sugar and dilute the "signal" (but there is no guarantee that will work either) :-D

Take the scientific aproach and collect data, make observations, and compare results, conduct experiments, and delay conclusions. become a point of consciousness and observe these experiences without judgment. And remember that all these obstacles and difficulties are what makes us stronger.

But most of all you need to learn to live gracefully with uncertainty. (as Tom says)

Good luck, and keep us informed of your progress.

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LOVE is the answer

peace
patrick

Yeah the fear stuff was the second set of lessons that came up, kind of mixed in there with the ego stuff too. The last to come up was belief, not sure whats next after that.

I am thankful for the time Tom spends messaging me, quite frankly he's the main source I go to with this stuff from the very get go.

I'm going to try and go on a longer detox, but trust me there's no diluting this signal, if anything it just keeps getting stronger and stronger. Its been made pretty apparent to me at least that I can smoke as much as I want eat as much trash as I want and if something wants to be said it well be said as clearly and as loudly as it wants or as quietly and subtle as it wants.

Honestly I'm a bad note taker I mainly keep things inside my mind and if anything when there is a connection or relation to something in the past that needs to be made the memory usually pops up like how Tom states in the book about his experience with his guides early on.

I would love to talk more about all this stuff and start detailing it more. I do have some notes scribbled in a notebook, but just tidbits here and there, but one thing that comes up sometimes and has from the jump seems to be the fact that maybe I shouldn't talk about this stuff as freely as I may want to at times. Not to mention I have some other PMR related things I need to focus on for the next few weeks anyway so I figure I may as well finish off this last bit of junk food and sugar in the next week or so (I doubt I'll be able to stay away from it too long though) and then go on another water/fruit fast and see how long that lasts while I just try to shut up and listen and see what other topics we begin to cover.

I'll be back to update the board in a couple of weeks or so.

Thanks for all the help people, see you soon, hopefully with more tales of wonder and amazement. I'm going to go wrestle my dogs. One last little note....

laid down last night to try and start meditating and got a flash of the funniest most random image ever, a young white guy with a hilarious moustache/beard, I couldn't help but burst out in laughter. These are the type of things that happen when I say it feels like it has control, because I had intended to try and do some actual meditation with chanting a mantra or visualizing energy/chakra colors but the second I tried it just interrupts me with the image that it knows I'm going to laugh my ass off at because its so random and silly. I love this thing, like anything you love it gets annoying and frustrating at times, but I love it, and vain as I may be at times in the past or even the present at times, I'm not so vain as to believe I feel this kind of love for something thats just a higher part of myself.

I know its someone or something else, just gotta figure out where/who.

You could try to jot anything that happens down, that way you can record more data, and review it to see some sort of long underlying theme or string of twisting events that out of context don't make sense, but in context make a cohesive story line. That along with increasing clarity/control over the small things you can, and working it up til you can exist as is, and only gain from it.

It sounds like you are processing two or more reality frames simultaneously. I can only echo the advice given thus far-- adopt a healthier diet, maybe do some grounding meditation.

Dr. Charles Tart found that cannabis intoxication can lead to spontaneous OBEs. It would explain why you were suddenly yanked out of your body. You might want to talk with a doctor about your cannabis use, it affects people in different ways and it might be something you want to avoid.

I have the opposite problem as you-- being perpetually trapped in C-1 consciousness. But I'm also busy taking care of two young children and don't have much time for altering my consciousness these days.

You can record voice notes on your computer after each event.

Lena

_________________
'Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones ignorance.' Confucius.

Perhaps a different approach would be useful.
You said that it happened gradually, and that it started with simple 'left leg/right leg/neutral' stuff. So, it makes sense that to control your situation, you will simply need to gradually change it.

I personally started imagining that a sort of pressure would guide my walking whenever it needed me to go places. And thus, from time to time, i start feeling a pressure as if a guidance system. I also, when choosing choices in my head, have also imagined a pressure guiding me. Its sort of like my focus hones in on the least pressure, and thus guides me to make choices. This started gradually, I don't quite remember when.

Now I will give a theoretical ideal on how gradual association can change ones life. Lets say I don't believe in the paranormal. I think its rubish. But I am still curious and want to give it a shot, but having a scientific background, I say rubish! How do we get from science to paranormal, but without any fear junk which will give us 'false paranormal?' We first start at what we can believe in, thats 'closest' to the paranormal. Lets say its 'lucid dreaming.' Next, we read up on what we dont believe in, but we still wanna give it a shot - lets say out of body experiences (oobs). Now, lets ask ourselves: "What is the relationship between lucid dreaming and oobs?" In other words, from your perspective, what would be a first reasonable step to take if one wanted to go from lucid dreaming to oobs. Lets say its meditation. Now, we say to ourselves 'Im going to meditate and this is going to allow me to more efficiently lucid dream, which is pretty dang cool. Now, if oobs happen to be real, i know that meditation will take me 'one step closer' to mastering oobs! I dont need to fear that i am going to a dead end because if it is a dead end for oobs, it definitely aint a dead end for increasing lucid dreaming prowess!.'
This is logic that works for me,and that i have used to sort of find the information that i want. My intention was to see if it is possible to relate science to paranormal, and it gradually occured via step like association.

This is exactly how Im guessing your thing worked out. Curiosity maybe, and step by step !:)

Its all about understanding perception, and thus feeling in control. The purpose of the conscious mind, according to 'seths peaks', is to decide what goes into the unconscious mind and thus determine what we perceive. Perception consists of four things - 'logic', 'symbols', 'possibilities', and 'interaction.'

The symbols were science and paranormal. What matters is the relationship between the symbols. For science, we have a certain way of thinking - this is the 'logic' of that perspective. For paranormal, we have a certain way of thinking ('disbelief') - that is the 'logic' of that perspective. We want to believe in the paranormal and have that belief mesh with the belief in science - thus we need to 'merge' the logics. If we believe in it and it does not correspond to our underlying logic, the belief will not help anything (unless its really strong and gradually changes the logic).

To do this, we discover symbols in our current perspective that, one by one, will link one logic to another. The first symbol was lucid dreaming. We next discovered a rule/logic for that symbol - 'meditate and test things out.' We then find a place where we can do the rule - this allows for possibilities. We then interact the symbol with our current perspective (the science perspective). This starts to form a bridge, and is one of the most important parts.

Now, we are immersed in PMR. We love physical stuff because it is extremely relevant to our perspective. Think about it: Perhaps you have heard that dreams symbolize something. Flip that around and ask yourself: what do the things in my life symbolize? Every physical object (in your perspective) will , theoretically, have a meaning/symbolize something even if you dont know it.

A first possible exercise: ask yourself what things in waking life symbolize, to you. Basically, allow your mind to free associate ....

Taking the above example to your situation, the first part would be to state your purpose. Then you would create a physical symbol - lets say a coin wrapped in cotton, something crazy that you 'think doesnt have a meaning for you' (but it does, your basically just bypassing your conscious mind and allowing your unconscious mind to discover it, because it knows more). Now, create a simple rule for it - it could be, in the morning, we smell the cotton - whatever feels write for you, because again you are 'discovering' the logic/rules (with your unconscious mind). Its best if it is not serious at all, it should be playful and quite non serious, otherwise you're assigning to much meaning with your conscious mind to the rules. Next, set aside some time to do the rules (maybe like 5 seconds in the morning), this is 'possibility.' Actually, if you wanted to stop the control, you might want to perform the rules when you think you're about to be controlled - basically the possibility steps allows you to interact with the perspective that you want to change, so you want it to be relevant. Again, do what feels right, your unconscious mind knows best, dont try to intellectualize it.

Now, its all about gradual stuff. You eventually might feel that the symbol has no use - when this happens, your perspective has shifted gradually closer to your goal/purpose. Now you need to 'discover' new symbols wth your mind and repeat. It should be fun and effortless once it starts working...

Now, the above process basically tells your unconscious mind what you want it to do (if you want, you can think of it as extremely effective 'hypnosis' - using physical symbols for hypnosis is actually already discovered and written in a book 'Self-Hypnosis Revolution: The Amazingly Simple Way to Use Self-Hypnosis to Change Your Life '! you see, now we can believe in this process better and start testing it out, bridges are quite useful arent they ;)) . Since physical items are dear to us and we believe that they are solid things, using a physical symbol immensely helps when compared to just thinking. Once you start the process, you might feel an urge (a sudden idea in your mind) to start eating sugar, or not eat sugar - you will feel an urge to change something in your lifestyle. This means that the symbols are working and that doing the thing you feel urged to do is probably useful! Don't worry about preconceived ideas (maybe someone tells you to do blank specifically and ittll help) - these ideas will also be changed with the physical symbol process!

hope this helps :)

Maybe the lesson is to learn how easy it is to sliiidddee.... Let me know if you find out im interested, i think i might be learning a similar lesson! who knows .... cant wait to hear your updates ....

Also .... you might find http://www.magickofthought.com interesting, if you want to explore various avenues besides my big toe... theres no vodoo fear stuff that you might expect from magick, or weird religious stuff , so atleast thats in the spirit of my big toe ... also it uses 'computer analogies' just like my big toe ....

Thanks for the input. I've always been science based but always had a good healthy love for paranormal and stories growing up from family/friends, I've pretty much always had a balance and my own theory that science and psi stuff are just diff. ends of a spectrum that have a meeting point yet to be confirmed by mainstream science.

Where I'm at now I kind of don't want to have other peoples experience influence my own journey/experience. I don't even want to read the MBT books for a second time until I've set aside a good amount of time to just do some more experimentation with it myself then do a second round of reading/exploring/forum reading etc.

One thing I've realized is that when you read the thoughts/experiences of others on these matters you start to try to apply any similarity to your experience and match it even though that may not actually be the case.

I just need to figure out the nature of this connection, if its just constant contact with my higher self then I need to find out/experiment more with what the higher self is, why it seems/feels like so much of a seperate individual with its own humor, plans, etc.

If its not that then I need to figure out if its a person here in PMR who has the ability to actively attach to me via NPMR, or if its an NPMR being/energy thats connected to me. It definitely feels like a ladder/ranking system attached to what I'm going through, but then again is it?

Thats what I mean by having the experiences of others clouding the development of my own theory. Its weird because you need to read about it to gain insight, but at this point I want to work more on developing my own theories then compare and contrast after the fact.

Because its constant and interesting I have to balance my interest in exploring it along with my responsibilites in PMR as well, I'm pretty sure its not going anywhere whatever it is, so just gotta figure it out.

Sounds good to me!

Diet has a powerful effect on our mind and thoughts and is the fuel for our mental processes. Ensuring a healthy balanced diet and limiting sugar intake can make the world of difference. Also from experience I have found that marijuana can cause anxiety. For me this lead to irrational conclusions and beliefs to assuage my fears. It can also be used as a tool for facilitating creative thinking, pain relief, and other beneficial purposes. It depends on the person and whether or not it has already fulfilled its purpose. Personally, I believe it has.

Best wishes,
Glen

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I am change. No part of me stagnates - this is an illusion.

Any updates for us?

Quick update.....................I've had it up to here with this thing.

I never thought learning all this "wild and crazy" stuff would be so boring. I'm tired of feeling like I'm being held prisoner by this thing and I'm tired of not getting and concrete answers from it, and mostly I'm tired of it not respecting my boundaries.

I was under the impression from reading the forum/MBT that there were at least some kind of rules to this stuff, but it just feels like something won't let me go and its annoying.

I'd contact Tom then cj, okay?
Love
Bette

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All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.