There are people I simply don't like. I don't think they are good people. Does Tom think we should be loving and open towards people even if we don't like them?

You may not know enough about them - or anything at all, for that matter.
In effect you don't know why you don't like them - where then is the reason not to be open and loving?
This feeling is telling you much more about your condition than whether they are indeed not likable (if there where such a thing).

We tend to resonate with people we have things in common with. For me i do not like some people i know, and i get instant dislikes from other people i come in contact with, from time to time. Can not deny this, it does exist for whatever reasons, i do try to be respectful of all i come in contact with. Even the ones i dislike. Respect, i think is a more realistic response, most of the time than love, considering the constraints of our FWAU acting here. Entropy reduction, moving towards, and becoming love so to speak is the goal. This growing up is a very slow process, try to enjoy the place you are at, knowing you are working at better ones to come. Sabby

Tom, as I understand things, does not particularly say anything about liking people. It is closer in a way to what Sabby said, respect, being respectful. The principle is that the free will of all others be respected. That does not mean that you forfeit your own free will to that of others although you might choose to do so if you have an ongoing relationship with someone for the greater good of that relationship. It also means however that you protect the free will of those who require it because they are unable to protect their own. So you would step in in some way to protect a child from child abuse, even from their own parent. There is fortunately for most of us, the 911 call. This would also include not taking positions against societal means of protecting the indigent, the disabled and the elderly and does mean advocating for those who are being mistreated. As the parable in the Christian bible goes, being a 'good Samaritan'.

Ted

OK, frankly I struggle with this myself. Recently a new neighbor moved in next door. Initially the man introduced himself to me while I was mowing my lawn. He told me that he was married and the father of two children. That sounded good to me.

Unfortunately, it seems he is divorced or separated because soon another man moved in - apparently a roommate. They tied 3 pitbull puppies up to trees in the yard. The puppies cried and barked all day. Thankfully they did take them in at night. I called animal control and they did go out and talk to them. But the barking and crying continued. It was pitiful and killed me to listen to it.

So finally I decided to go over and talk to them. I called into the open back door of the house and an unkempt, dirty looking man in a torn undershirt with a beer in his hand came out (I am not making this up - you get the picture.) I tried to talk to him in a low key sort of way but he got very heated very quickly and started yelling at me about calling animal services on him and so on. I told him that there was a barking ordinance and I would file a complaint against him. I tried to stay calm but we were yelling at each other by the end.

When I came home I decided to ignore the neighbors themselves and just send very strong intent toward the best outcome for the puppies. I didn't feel any bad emotions or thoughts toward my neighbors - just a strong intent for a better future for the dogs. It took about a week but the puppies are gone. Now, I don't know what happened to them and I hope whatever it was it was a better future than what they seemed headed for. But this is an example of working through a situation in a little different way.

I think we have to see a difference between Love and PMR love. Love is a characteristic of a low entropy and high QoC being and it's impartial. One Loves others, but this is not a blind or blinding love. Love can see good as well as bad in a being or situation, but there is no fear, anger or hatred are involved, felt or expressed. love is PMR feeling, and it could be experienced by a low entropy and high entropy being. PMR love is based on many factors, but this is strictly PMR feeling. Often a human being can mistake our attachements for love. Love doesn't create or have any attachments, but sadness is a part of Love.

We can Love someone and at the same time dislike this person. Love means accepting another person's good and bad qualities, but you should exercise your free will, if you have to defend yourself, your loved ones and others, when their wellbeing might be jeopardized. Defense is done with the intent not to damage an agressor, but to protect a victim.

Lena

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'Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones ignorance.' Confucius.

Lena: If someone bad mouthed you and obviously didn't like you one bit, would you love that person?

Sainbury: That guy sounds like a total jerk. Do you think you would act any differently now that you have had time to reflect on it?

Tom: I think I agree with what you said here. I didn't know that the term Good Samaritan came out of the bible.

sabby: If you don't respect that person's opinion, can you still respect that person?

Jonathan: Yes, there are some situations where disliking someone may be a wrong quick judgement of that person.

seems you missed some subtleties ...
I'd extend your above summary of what I said to all situations where you don't know the reason.
My point was also: you don't need to like the person in order to be(stay) open and loving towards it.
The feeling might turn out right after all - but still you could act open and loving.

Tom didn't know the term Good Samaritan came from the bible?
Ted said something on the subject - but not what you quoted.

Community may have been confused since I made a reference to Tom first in my post. You misunderstand what he says also in that he is indicating to whom he is speaking in his post and not referencing what they said. He is giving his own comment. Community, you might put "To Tom", etc. in front of multiple post addresses like this to make them clear to readers that you are not quoting them but speaking to them as an address.

The parable of the Good Samaritan is indeed from the Christian Bible, New Testament, the Gospel of Luke (10:29-37). I looked it up. I am no bible scholar.

Ted

So it was me who missed the glaring obvious subtleties - uups, sorry!
Thanks Ted!
Taking different viewpoints into consideration is not so easy after all.

Community, yes i still respect people even if in my opinion, theirs have no value for the truth as i see it. I know i could be wrong, and even if they are, they have a right to say it. I would even go as far to respect a person if they got mad for a ego reason and wanted to hurt me. Respect for all sentient`s is in my opinion necessary for positive growth. Love is what we grow into. Sabby

community,

I am not a low entropy/high QoC being, but I have learned do not have anything in common with stupid, jealous and unstable people. I had several lessons in my life and it was good enough for me to gain my experience.

Also not to brag about myself, but for mane years I have a very helpful skill to see and understand people for who they are. I am almost at the point, when I don't judge people, but am aware of their qualities and character in general, understanding motives behind their actions. I have never named this skil of mine. Is it Love or a high brow approach?

I can feel sad, that they do behave in a stupid/jelous/unstable way, and i can get a flash of frastration, but I am not going to step on their toe. Unless they will be persistent in their attempt to destroy what is important to me. I would talked to this person once, and if there is no effect, depending on circumstances I would separate myself from this person or would take some actions to be sure, that he/she would not do damage to others.

We have to remember this is an imperfect world, our PMR, and it does not mean to be perfect, and it was not created to become perfect. Nothing could be learned in a perfect world, and we are here to learn by making mistakes, becoming aware of them and gaining experience and wisdom from our experience. As long as you intend to have interests of others as a priority and you are learning from you mistakes, you are on a right path.

Liking or disliking is PMR feelings. Love is not to let someone destroy you or others. Love is acceptance of them for who they are, awareness of who they are on different levels, feeling sad, that they are not able to be better. But you don't have to like this person or associate with him at all.

Lena

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'Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones ignorance.' Confucius.

comments from Community to those named, my response in italics


Lena: If someone bad mouthed you and obviously didn't like you one bit, would you love that person?

this is a common misunderstanding. The word love in the MBTOE context refers to agape love, or loving intent/action, which has little to do with the emotional state or liking anyone or being liked. Loving intent is most pure when you have a negative emotional attitude to the person and or you do not actually like them, or vice versa. Ponder these words of the Nazarene - do good to those that hate you and curse you. An example of this is stopping in the middle of fight with your wife and hugging her...doing something nice for her when things are in in a post quarrel chill. Buying a case of beer for the assholes across the street you are having a feud with.

Sainbury: That guy sounds like a total jerk. Do you think you would act any differently now that you have had time to reflect on it?

this is not a criticism...one should try to establish good relations with neighbours before raising challenging issues. Mistreatment of dogs is a common problem in Florida...hence the need for strong HOA rules if you don't want to live with these sorts of things right under your nose...one has to be mindful of the level of constraint one wants to live under

Tom: I think I agree with what you said here. I didn't know that the term Good Samaritan came out of the bible.

I think one of the saddest things is the reality that most of what is good and orderly on the planet comes out of the gospel record, (Mathew, Mark, Luke, John, [Thomas]) and very few are aware of this...especially the so called Christians

sabby: If you don't respect that person's opinion, can you still respect that person?

FWAUs represent a continuum from fresh IUOC stone all the way up to beautiful sculptures - our inner low entropy being is being carved out by the chisel of life experience - do not disrespect new stone

Jonathan: Yes, there are some situations where disliking someone may be a wrong quick judgement of that person.

again, we are free to like or dislike, have positive or negative emotions - what matters is intent->action->result->feedback

there is nothing wrong with keeping a friendly distance from FWAUs that are not profitable for you to interact with - PMRwise nor NPMR-wise, subject to relationships of duty or practical convenience, subject to your level of surplus emotional energy

at a certain point of efficiency, one might choose to interact with high entropy individuals in order to assist them find their feedback mechanism, as part of fishing for deep positive feedback.

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Does this PMR make my butt look big?

As for my neighbors - I think I did the best I could at that time given my current QoC and the situation. The biggest growth factor for me is that I didn't, and don't, harbor any ill feelings toward them. On the other hand I am sure I will not be socializing with them.

Okay, I realize the way I wrote my last message was probably too confusing. Thanks for all your responses.

So are any of the following considered high entropy behaviors? (the following examples are hypothetical situations)
-Let's say I just look at someone and think: "That person looks like a moron. I don't want to even talk to him."
-Let's say I am angered by the bad customer service of the cashier and yell at her, "You are absolutely terrible at your job. You should get fired for being so slow and chatting with your friends instead of serving customers."
-Let's say I go up to someone who I don't like at a church and say, "You are a hypocrite. You say you believe in God but you are a self-serving jerk" and then proceed to give him a middle finger.
-Let's say I don't get along with someone and think to myself, "What a bad person. I hope they fail in life and suffer bad consequences."
-Let's say a person walks around very arrogantly generally thinking that he is better than most people in the world.
-A person doesn't donate any money to charity.
-A thief tries to steal a person's wallet, but the victim overpowers him, punches the theif over and over again until he has to go to the hospital just to teach him a lesson.

Would you consider these high/neutral/low entropy behaviors?