Jane, i see your point it does make one wonder when we fell grief, that is the worst suffering that there is, simple facts some of us do not make it through it. i think we are here to create a better way of living, you can call this daycare if you like, i pefer to think of this PMR as a place to change, by changing ourselves. All of this pain is here because we have not found a way out of it collectively. By changing ourselves, by finding ways out of the horrors of pain, and passing it on to others is what i think MBT is all about. josh

Jane,
This world is full of pain and suffering, this is inevitable. And death comes to all, this is unavoidable in this temporal PMR. We are born, we develop attatchments to people, critters and things. As we grow old, we get to watch all the people (and things) that we have learn to love, grow old, get sick, decay, corrode, and die. Then we grow old get sick and die.
Loss, loss, loss...
It is in how we deal with the loss. And it is in how we deal with people during the time we have that matters.
The Buddhists have come to the conclusion that there is only one way to deal with all this suffering and loss. With LOVE and Compassion

They have a concept called The "Joyful participation in the sorrows of the world"

Joseph Campbell (my other favorite Mr. Campbell) talks about it, in his book:
Sukhavati (2002, reissued 2007)


In "The Power of Myth" Joseph Campbell has this to say...


And this...


As well as this...


But it is not our job to change the world....





And in "The Hero With A Thousand Faces", he likens it to the warriors path when he says...


Carl Jung says that...



But unfortunately it is not something that we can (easily) pass on to others. When we go through our trials and tribulations we learn through experience, and everyone must pass through their own personal trials. Its not something that we can necessarily teach. It is subjective and personal. it is experiencial and participatory.

Even when it comes to our children...



Every parent wants their children to grow up to be better people than than the parent was. But we can NEVER teach our children to be better than we are. We can only teach them WHO we are. So if we want our children to be better people, we must first BECOME better people ourselves.

Its the same with people in general. We teach by example, and not by words alone. We show each other who we are, and we get feedback. Our actions do, in fact, speak much louder than our words.
But the Quality of our consciousness is not measured by our actions alone, but by our intentions.

And I have come to the conclusion that the best we can do, even under the worst of circumstances, is to go through life with a reverance for all people and things, and treat everyone and everything with LOVE and Compassion.

_________________
LOVE is the answer

peace
patrick

pain and pleasure is merely feedback coming back to us from the various ruleset levels, primal, practical, poetic

the riddle is trying to figure out why we are feeling pain as we experience in real time

most pain in western life is due to the ego game of trying to act impressive, dominating others, seeking short term pleasure through stuffology - envy and being stressed out because we have not achieved the dream life that has been conjured up in our mind

when you take a more "here I am, warts and all" attitude, a lot of this ego and its pain fall away, so that you can deal with actual pain...like loneliness and physical aches and pains.

you become less neurotic and wasteful of emotional energy, you make more authentic personal connections, which leads to effectiveness, and you actually start to make some progress with superficial PMR goals

_________________
Does this PMR make my butt look big?

Thank you guys soooo much for replying to my questions. Your comments are really helpful.

I will be downloading the Neil Young song soon Bette!
Sounds a bit dopey, but I am so touched that so many of you responded.

I live in England so am not really up at the crack of dawn - it's 3pm here!

Will be writing on here again very soon
love Jane

One story I heard about Neil Young - he apparently has a son with physical challenges

anyways, the son's great joy in life is messing with his train set...however, the controls for the train are too delicate for a child with physical challenges to operate.

So Neil, through various methods asked and then begged the company to develop controls that someone like his son could operate.

They said no.

He bought the company and ordered them to do it.

_________________
Does this PMR make my butt look big?

Ted, Tom or anybody

I am a little confused about NPMR and the experience of this when one dies.

I guess my understanding was that what I would experience would be a product of my belief system / my attachments in PMR / the level of my understanding of MBT etc etc.

I have read some discussions on this forum re NPMR likening in to a "soup kitchen" / dull etc etc

Could somebody please tell me the difference between PMR (which is a virtual reality - albeit a consensus one) and NMPR VR. Are they both as seemingly "real" as each other? I understand the bit about datastreams and interpreting them within our PMR metaphors/ beleifs etc.
Thank you all.

Jane,

For a reference, look here on the Wiki. http://wiki.my-big-toe.com/index.php/Th ... _Link_Page

In simple terms, PMR is a Virtual Reality which simulates physicality in its rule set. You have a body and the usual senses and the rule set makes things that you drop fall to the ground, etc. All the usual stuff. Just look around you.

NPMR is a Virtual Reality that does not simulate a physical reality in its rule set. You do not have a body nor the usual senses. You do not have a hand to hold and then drop something and if you did, it would not fall to the non existent ground nor would there be a 'something' to exist to drop. You are just 'there' with the ability to communicate with other IUOCs. You interpret incoming data streams based upon your past experience. The rule set does not give you the fixed things of night and day, awake and asleep, or objects either solid, liquid or gaseous, etc. You do not eat or any of the other aspects of having a PMR body.

This is why Tom does not like to tell us about his experiences. You have heard the concept of subjective interpretation and how a dozen witnesses observing a traffic accident will report a dozen different things. Think what they will report if there is no up/down, right/left, street/sidewalk, cars or bodies riding in them. Everything can only be reported subjectively based upon your past history. So what is observed is based upon past history of PMR mostly, from us here in PMR as we visit. That still colors experience in NPMR even when we are natives there as not being here any more. We still have our past memories of PMR.

Ted

Thank you Ted

You wrote:

"You are just 'there' with the ability to communicate with other IUOCs".

You dont mean tho' that all I will experience when I die will be the equivalent of being in a dark room with a telephone (metaphorically speaking, of course!). I presume that when I die and am no longer attached to PMR, as it were, that I will continue to experience things / environments, but they will be constructed purely from my IUOC's imagination (including not just the immediate past life, but all the others too)???

Sorry if I am being dim!!!
MAny thanks Ted

No, that was the situation only for the very long ago beginning with no experience. That is why I said "You interpret incoming data streams based upon your past experience." Everything that you have been in the past enters into what you have become and it is all available to you as you are there in NPMR as you have incorporated it into your true self over all of those past life times of experience. This is not just a scrambled pile and confused memories but an integrated self. You will reintegrate when you return from this experience packet in an elaborate transition for beginners as and if required to a matter of effectively sitting quietly and putting your 'thoughts' as your self in order or whatever is appropriate in between. Tom has described this before.

Sorry I did not unpack that more fully for you.

Ted

Bless you Ted. That has reassured me.

you may wish to review the North Carolina recording. I specifically probed Tom on this point.

I was kinda under the previous impression that in NPMR life would be easy, fun, like going to Disneyland on steriods, something to look forward to.

The answer I got back was that PMRs are for action of this kind, and that NPMR becomes boring, and you are soon ready for another adventure.

Absorbing this can have a significant impact....this idea that "That's what PMRs are for", to quote Tom.

This is where the action is at, this is where you want to be, this is as close to "Disneyland" as you are going to get.

It also begs the question...if you are not having a good time, what are you doing wrong.

_________________
Does this PMR make my butt look big?

Thank you Kroeran.

I presume though, that if your belief system is such that, after death you think that you will experience "disneyland on steriods" that that will be what you experience - for a while at least.

Ted said in his last post ..."So what is observed is based upon past history of PMR mostly, from us here in PMR as we visit. That still colors experience in NPMR even when we are natives there as not being here any more. We still have our past memories of PMR".

He also said ..."Everything that you have been in the past enters into what you have become and it is all available to you as you are there in NPMR as you have incorporated it into your true self over all of those past life times of experience".

Maybe we experience stuff to begin with to help us to process our recent past experience and then move on to either the planning bit (if we have low enough entropy) or straight into another life.

From this perspective I still cannot believe that anybody, with the remotest memory of their past experiences (ie how real life in PMR seems, how long a life lasts for and how bloody hard it is - even in the developed world) would 'choose' a horrible, difficult life - especially if you are going to live a long one.

Jane, maybe what we think as horrible here acting in PMR through the constraints of the virtual brain , does not seem that way in NPMR, when we are less constrained with a virtual brain. Maybe it is more like, hay just another (experience) perspective, just to have a wide range of experiences, as to organize all types of challenging (life packets) data. The lower we can take our entropy what seems horrible, even here may seem interesting to one highly evolved. I think there is always a creative way out of our pain and misery, within the rule-sets, if we choose to follow the feedback, that would lead us back to (love) joy. Sabby

Jane,

Here is a post by Tom back when we were corresponding a good bit, with him explaining and answering my questions. We had talked about how there was always a need for functional Free Will Awareness Units, FWAUs, in NPMR, IUOCs functioning in their NPMR life experience, who were responsible and capable enough to provide service as guides to those incarnated here in PMR. There is always a short supply as you can only 'guide' those who are at a level of development below your own, not to mention the requirement for being 'responsible' and not prone to going to sleep at the switch. This whole thread will be worth your while so I link to the beginning. viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2668&p=3377

This discusses the reality of NPMR and its boring aspects. The thing that really drives the willingness to reincarnate. When you are functioning as a guide, you are constantly aware that you are in a stagnant situation and not where the developmental action is that you require to go beyond your present level of quality and 'moving up the ladder'. So if you are not someone like Tom, who keeps his 'eyes' and 'ears' open (even when he has none) and pays attention to what is going on and takes advantage of 'networking', getting into the interesting action as sort of a 'galactic agent of the LCS', boredom is your enemy. You can only explore 'what ifs' and 'might have beens' for so long without wanting a 'wall' to start climbing out of frustration. You are ready to get back into that action, pleasant or not. It is a recurring theme of some who are not happy with their present PMR life circumstances and past history and bemoan that they ever let themselves be talked into coming back here. You have an entirely different perspective from there in NPMR than you do from here during an unpleasant life circumstance.

Have you ever read Michael Newton's books about his discovery and development of 'past life regression' and the elaborate picture he developed about 'life between lives' in NPMR from his regression patients. Tom has also discussed this and here is this discussion in part, again as a result of my interchanges with Tom from the past. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2710&p=3378 Here is another reference from a post by Tom among other worthwhile discussion. viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2722&p=3518 Finally, from further correspondence with Tom from the past, when he asked me to find our old discussions of Michael Newton's work, I dug this up previously with some difficulty. This is his report to me on Michael Newton's description of our lives in NPMR which Newton describes as very structured with added nototations of who is speaking and color coding to make clear what Tom is saying.In general, these are all longer discussions from the past on the board which are worthwhile for your attention, not just relative to Newton's work. I hope that this helps with your understanding as it did with mine in the past.

Ted

PMR is a subset of NPMR. Right now you are here, inside PMR and are trying to understand the bigger picture of NPMR. At this point you have lots of questions and not enough first-hand information and experience to make any meaningful conclusions. So may be it is better to let those questions hang out there for now instead of urgently forming some kind of belief to comfort the ego and sweep the fear of not knowing under the rug. That is what Tom calls "learning to live gracefully with uncertainty".