Hello All,

I'm wondering if anyone can help me understand an OBE/lucid dream i had recently.

I was in bed on the brink of sleep and became aware i was totally paralysed. The usual mix of excitement and terror rushed in and i shook myself awake. Disappointed in my lack of courage i quickly tried again and fortunately was able to get back to where i was.

I heard the usual rushing (wind) sound, like the background noise of nature being boosted by 100dB but thankfully, this time, i didn't hear any voices. Tom had mentioned that the menacing voices i sometimes hear could be a test to assess my level of fear. I attempted to tell the examiners that i felt this test was unnecessary as i had proven my courage countless times. This was a BLATANT lie and they knew it, but for whatever reason, this time i was spared the voices.

I attempted to silence my mind and did a reasonably good job at it. Before long i was out of my bed and moving towards my door. I thought for a moment i had actually physically gotten out of my bed but soon i was upside down and floating into the hallway.

My friend was staying over that night so i decided to go into his room and remember something i could go and check on when i was back in body. But i was surprised to find he was awake, laying on top of the bed covers and wearing different clothes to the ones he was in earlier. He had work in a couple hours and i assumed he should have been in bed (under the covers) and sleeping. He looked fidgety and frustrated and i tried to get his attention but failed. I began to think i was in a lucid dream and the rest of the experience from here on is muddled.

I remember being in my room, but it was daytime, and i had statues of religious figures, dragons and demons on my mantelpiece but all their heads were severed and laying on the floor by my feet. I was scared by this and thought it vital that i reattach them, to which i failed miserably.

Suddenly I'm in a really nice place where it was night and day at the same time. There was grass, water slides, a beach, a forest, dogs and cows. But no people. I flew about for a while with fluctuating lucidity and then woke up.... in Croydon.

The next day my friend called me and said he didn't sleep well and was awake for most of the night. Which got me thinking maybe it wasn't a lucid dream. I'm still having trouble differentiating between a lucid dream and an out of body experience. Sorry to keep going over this one.

I understand that dreams offer another environment/learning lab for us to implement our free will, make decisions and lower our entropy. I'm assuming that lucid dreams are exactly the same but in a lucid dream you retain awareness of your situation and can control the experience.

Is an out of body experience the same as a lucid dream but instead of being drawn from our imagination it's drawn from the database/the part of the database that records our PMR happenings? That would explain why i saw my friend laying awake in bed with different clothes on. I gained access to the database, saw that he was not asleep, then muddied up the data with my intellect and dressed him in some random clothes. Maybe the clothes were a symbol of him not being asleep, as you usually dont wear your clothes to bed?

One last (kind of related) question:

Tom, with your kind of experience in the bigger picture do you ever feel (whilst aware in PMR) as if you are in a kind of lucid "reality". In a normal dream I feel immersed in the experience and lost in the moment but in a lucid dream I feel disconnected from the experience and outside of it. Do you ever feel this way whilst awake/aware in PMR? You mentioned in a previous post that your not a slave to your conciousness and i assume if you ever do feel like this it is when you choose to feel this way.

I have felt this way before, for a brief period, but not on my own terms and the experience was disturbing. Not knowing how or when i was going to be able to get back 'in the moment' was pretty scary. I read on the internet that people call it derealisation and a definition they give is "like being a spectator at some strange and meaningless game". Obviously in context of MBT the words "strange and meaningless" are...... strange and meaningless :D

I can imagine that if you could get to this state wilfully, and knowing how to get back, it would be a very peaceful and empowering state to be in.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Dan

I laughed out loud and clapped my hands, my usual response when words are used well and funnily, thank you. Thank you for sharing this experience as well, I look forward to the replies this generates.

Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Dan, from my experience, I will kinda answer a few questions that may raise some more questions in your mind, :)

[quote="Dan Christie"]
I heard the usual rushing (wind) sound, like the background noise of nature being boosted by 100dB but thankfully, this time, i didn't hear any voices. Tom had mentioned that the menacing voices i sometimes hear could be a test to assess my level of fear. I attempted to tell the examiners that i felt this test was unnecessary as i had proven my courage countless times. This was a BLATANT lie and they knew it, but for whatever reason, this time i was spared the voices.

My friend was staying over that night so i decided to go into his room and remember something i could go and check on when i was back in body. But i was surprised to find he was awake, laying on top of the bed covers and wearing different clothes to the ones he was in earlier. He had work in a couple hours and i assumed he should have been in bed (under the covers) and sleeping. He looked fidgety and frustrated and i tried to get his attention but failed. I began to think i was in a lucid dream and the rest of the experience from here on is muddled.[/quote]

Sounds like a legit OOBE. Lucid Dreaming is different to me, because in a LD state I'm more of a passive observer in a not very focused state. I know I'm dreaming, but I'm not really aware of my body like I am in a OOBE state (which has rarely happened to me). Plus things just don't match up, like faces are warped, sounds are warped, I'm just not as focused as I am in a OOBE state. Plus in a OOBE state, I'm "there". It's real...there's no other way to describe it. In a LD state, I'm not all there, kinda like a drunk OOBE (if you know what I mean)

[quote]I remember being in my room, but it was daytime, and i had statues of religious figures, dragons and demons on my mantelpiece but all their heads were severed and laying on the floor by my feet. I was scared by this and thought it vital that i reattach them, to which i failed miserably.[/quote]

Sounds like a metaphor for your attachment (severed-heads) to your beliefs (the religious figures). Like youre trying really hard to make your beliefs work for you (by attaching the heads), but instead it just isn't working because they arent really important (they're just symbols, dead statues).

Just some ideas for you.

Dan,

I live in a continuous balance between being a spectator and being a participant -- I suspect that this is true of many people and has to do with how far the centroid of your personal reality is out from under the fat part of the normal probability curve. If the fundamentals of your reality fall 20 sigma beyond the norm you can't help but feel somewhat like a spectator. I can choose to shift my perspective to be 100% spectator or 100% participant, but a practical balance that can easily shift from one pole to the other as required is most functional. As a 100% spectator, you are no longer a participant in this reality frame (i.e., you are outside PMR) -- you can stick around and observe PMR or leave and go elsewhere.

Lucid dreams and OOBE approach leaving PMR from different awareness's and perspectives. Because of that difference people who have little operational control tend, by default, to remain tied to the spaces through which they enter the out-of-PMR experience --- i.e., lucid dreams (entered from a dream state) are more dreamlike and OOBE (entered fully conscious) is more awake like. However it is only habit and belief that ties someone to the spaces through which they enter the out-of-PMR experience. Once free of PMR, your focus and intent (and, of course, your ego, fears, expectations, needs, and beliefs -- if you happen to have any of those things :-)) are solely in charge of what happens next.

Tom C

I think i must be leaving PMR through the lucid dream state, as all except two of my OBE's have been very dream like and felt exactly how Toby described.

Thanks guys, I think I need to try exiting PMR from a more alert/conscious state from now on.

Dan