Hi all,

This is my first time posting on this forum althought i have been a casual browser =]

Im well into Book One and i have read through pages 174 - 180 respectivly where Tom introduces the 3 ways he recommends to meditate. For those who cant recall it; it's basically your Audio, Visual and Kinesthetic approaches.

Now im not sure if later on these subjects are touched on in more detail, i made the decision yesterday to start meditating while reading the book, this is what this post is about.

I must say the whole process was a big FAIL. When i say fail i am not speaking of the expectations of having an NPMR experience, i am speaking of the simple process of Meditation which seems to occur.
First of all im a heavy thinker, i speak to myself in my mind 24/7 and its something i have grown up with. This posed a problem last night as i could not get my mind to be quiet =P

Also trying to close my eyes and visualise a soccer ball or anything for that matter didnt go to well as i could not make out any objects. at all and the harder i tried to visualise the less effective the process became.

I lend this failure to the abundance of noise in the backgroiund, my brothers stereo and my parents TV. However it is not such a simple task to ask them to turn it all down so i can meditate as they would stare at me for a few seconds then start laughing in my face. (I'd love for them to read My Big TOE)

So is there any helpful hints on how to start meditating using Tom's approaches? Is this a good time to start or should i leave it to the end of the book? Can i use ear plugs to reduce background noise or is that considered a tool and not beneficial to my meditation?

I did this all lying down btw. Hope some of you more experienced members can shed some light on these matters, and i would just like to thank everyone in advance for any input they may provide and at the same time apologise for the long post.

Regards,
Weltall

_________________
"To be stupid, selfish, and have good health are three requirements for happiness, though if stupidity is lacking, all is lost."
~Gustave Flaubert (1821 - 1880)

Weltall: So are there any helpful hints on how to start meditating using Tom's approaches? Is this a good time to start or should i leave it to the end of the book? Can i use ear plugs to reduce background noise or is that considered a tool and not beneficial to my meditation?

Tom: Now is a good time to start. Try to find a quiet place with few distractions in order to get your meditation started -- a library, outside in a park, after the rest of your family is asleep, or gone out to get a pizza. Eventually, quiet will not be as necessary, but in the beginning, it is very helpful to the process of letting go of physical awareness. Trying too hard or trying to force an outcome (like seeing a soccer ball) is usually counter productive. Most importantly -- have no expectations and DON"T GIVE UP -- persistence always wins. Without expectations, it is hard to be disappointed.

Tom C

Tom,

Thanks for the quick reply. I know this is a stupid question but will using ear plugs be a deal breaker when im trying to achieve silence?
And what of those supposed audio files that help you meditate, i read somewhere that it is better to do the meditating yourself than rely on some audio file?

Regards,
Weltall

_________________
"To be stupid, selfish, and have good health are three requirements for happiness, though if stupidity is lacking, all is lost."
~Gustave Flaubert (1821 - 1880)

Weltall,

Earplugs are fine. So are using binaural beat audio files. Beginners can make good use of all sorts of training aids -- the key is not to avoid aids or meditation tools, but to know when to let them go after you have become sufficiently proficient without them.

Tom C

Tom

Do you have any recommendations for these Meditating Audio files that maybe you have used yourself. Or should i just experiment with what i can. All in all thankyou for the help.

_________________
"To be stupid, selfish, and have good health are three requirements for happiness, though if stupidity is lacking, all is lost."
~Gustave Flaubert (1821 - 1880)

Weltall, search hemi-sync, binaural beat, gateway program, and frequency here. That should get you going with information.
Love to you and yours
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Bette, Ubik & Tom

Thanks for all your help, i have taken it all on board and will have another try tonight.

Regards,
Weltall

_________________
"To be stupid, selfish, and have good health are three requirements for happiness, though if stupidity is lacking, all is lost."
~Gustave Flaubert (1821 - 1880)

Weltall,

You don't have to visualize a soccer ball. It can be any object you like, or it can be an ocean beach, woods, a house. any image that you can hold in your mental vision. These mental pictures can become movie like, changing one another. Let yourself become familiar with it. From this picture choose an object, a very simple one, a rock, a piece of wood, a leaf or grass blade and move it close to your mental eyes that you can see more and more small details. You can pretend all these, if it does not come naturally to you, and after so many times of pretending it will start to appear by itself. Try don't force anything; this exercise should be done with no effort at all. I know it easy to say, than to do. Don't be upset either, this is learning process, and it is a most important part. Results are satisfying, but process is even more important than result. Good luck.

Lena

_________________
'Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones ignorance.' Confucius.

Me too :P

Some times I would get so mad at the "monkey chatter" wile try to meditate that I'd scream at them to shut up (inside the mind). It would work for a brief moment then they'd start right at it again. The problem appears to stem from a poor diet, one consisting of to much sugar. Some links to assist you.

Sugar and ADD: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3032

Vegetarianism: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2867

Diet: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2694&hilit=

Like you I usually think in words 24/7. It doesn't help that I am a software developer for my job, which usually leads to me thinking in words all day while at work, and it is very hard to "turn off" after work.

Even though I am ever so slowly making progress, I will let you know what works for me:

I use earplugs.

I usually sit up, sometimes recline in my recliner (though this might lead to sleep).

I focus on the feeling of my breath and the feeling of my stomach going up and down.

I use this timer (http://gymboss.com) to vibrate for 1 second ever 60 seconds for 20 times.
This gives me a friendly reminder every minute so that I can see if I was drifting off in thought or was staying on task. If you get something like this, you can set it to vibrate every 30 seconds and slowly work up to vibrating every 3-5 minutes, then you know you made progress.

I meditate at night before going to sleep and try to also meditate in the morning before work.

Get up earlier before school/work and meditate. I am not a morning person, so this is the hardest for me, but it may be your only shot to have peace and quiet in the beginning without your family being loud.

Mindset - think of it as exercise. If you are fat and want to get in shape, you don't do a marathon training session and then get mad that you only lost a pound. What you do is be consistent with a reasonable time (20 minutes 1-2 times a day is reasonable for starters) and don't look for miracles to happen in the first week, the same way you won't expect to drop 20 pounds the first week of exercise. Notice the small gains and be happy with them (the gymboss timer helps for this).

I don't do the visualizing, because it seems to lead me to stray thoughts faster, so I focus on the feeling of my breath. If you want to keep with the visualizing, remember to not force it. Imagine yourself eating some food you really like, like pizza or a hamburger or something. Notice how easy that way? Visualize the soccer ball in the same way - don't try to force yourself to see it, just see it as an idea that may or may not manifest 100% visually, the same way you imagined yourself eating pizza.

Hope that helps. If I am wrong on the visualization tips, someone correct me.

I don't think there are any right or wrong answers when it comes to this because everyone is different, and any new information can (has to) blend with what we each have (know) to create 'the' answer for us individually. Far be it from me to actually know what I am talking about with meditation since I am soooo far away from doing it, but I have intuitive feelings about it as I do most things MBT. I tend to just spew my thoughts out here, correcting myself as I go because I can see what I mean once it's out. Please take anything I say that is irritating or 'wrong' as a grain of sand that may influence the creation of a pearl in an other's consciousness if not your own. There, now that I've asked permission to 'talk out of my neck' as it were, I'll continue.

I too think a lot, sometimes I think I think too much ;). Have you ever stopped to think, and then forgot to start again? :) I never do that ;) because I never stop thinking. Therefore, just now, I have concluded that the old "OM" or some other sound technique might be best for those of us with constantly on inner voice.

If I personally looked at this as exercise it would slow me down, probably put me in reverse since I am not going forward on meditating at all, because I hate (a very BIG word) exercise and it hates me. We have a deal, no hurt feelings. ;) Really, I am lazy and fat. I hate being lazy and fat too though. I don't hate not being able to meditate right now even though it would be nice to already be there in my journey. I am keeping myself "pure" until I can start my project and get hold of hemi-sync technology so I can be my first experimental subject in order to better understand any effect my gang member participants might have from it on their naive (first hemi-sync experience) brains. Dang I'm good, at rationalizing my behaviors or lack of that is. Twisting and turning...
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Hi Bette. I love your train of thought. The railroad tracks are not straight and narrow, go where they choose, and are never boring :)

Don't change too much. Its like reading spontaneous creation, a free flow of ideas. Too many of us study each word before putting it up for perusal.

Love ya

_________________
always, John

All,

Interesting insights, i know different things work for different people, thats a given. But ill give everything i can a shot until i settle on a sure fire way that works for me.

The whole diet issue is also interesting and looking back, i can say with certainty that it does play a role with your inner mind. However its funny that until i had the proper information i would have never guessed it or even bothered to measure the mental changes dieting caused.

BTW if your all wondering i usually undertake a low carb diet which eliminates all sugar intake along with fat and carbs obviously, but you end up feeling like a zombie so you are constantly having to take essential vitamin ( A to Z) pills to replenish what you arent getting in!!

_________________
"To be stupid, selfish, and have good health are three requirements for happiness, though if stupidity is lacking, all is lost."
~Gustave Flaubert (1821 - 1880)

Thanks John, that's nice.
Love to you and yours
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.