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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:16 pm 
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Hmmm. Time to start a new thread. What can I ramble about????

I have spent some time trying to reconcile some personal experiences in relation to what we have learned from MBT. Here is one that recently fell into place that seem at odds with some of Tom's views by the definition of an individuated unit of consciousness. Indigenous beliefs inhabit the world with spirits of nature that their shamans have interacted with since the beginning of time. What is the reality behind these beliefs? To dismiss them out of hand as only illusion is a bit silly given the topics we discuss.

Since I was a child these feelings of non-human presence have shown up from time to time and although I didn't speak about them I did observe. As a teenager the indigenous religions fascinated me because they were matter of fact about the existence of nature spirits and explained them from their experience and understanding. The whisper of the trees in the deep woods, the huge awarenesses I felt sometimes riding in thunderstorms or just passing by in the sky, and the presence sometimes felt in the land or water had meaning. After reading MBT which made so many things become clear, this one seemed to not reconcile. It is indicatedthat to be an actor on the PMR stage, physical or not, a presence must have a decision space and free will to act and evolve. Lowering entropy is the name of the game, at least in potential, for any individuated unit of consciousness. These things I have always respected and felt didn't seem at all like my guides or human in any way.

So what are they, astral flora and fauna? That didn't feel right, they are focused here. I reviewed past experience for patterns to give me clues. They seemed to be firmly an integral part of our system and had the feel of ages. They felt as if they had purpose in a way that is alien to our thinking. Usually interaction with them was an acknowledgement of my respect which was returned as they went about their business. When I tried to see into their business with any success, I was strongly pushed away unless my intent was pure and of limited focused. All that I could see was they were aware and they were an active part of PMR that was non-physical, and a bit more impossible to put in words.

My understanding now is that they are not free will entities as we understand the term. Think of an evolved maintenance program with lateral free will within the parameters of its rulesubset so it can do a very complex task. I believe these nature spirits are like subroutines that are created to do part of the work in rendering our virtual reality. They interact with the projected reality feed to help The Big Computer coordinate the next iteration of time for the subset they oversee and manage. Ageless and unchanging, only as their directives are modified. They too are made of consciousness and their very complexity makes them able to have interaction with us. It may seem limited to us or just alien because their purpose is beyond what our human experience can understand.

The earth spirits of indigenous beliefs are specific and dynamic information information modification systems in Ted Voller's model of the Virtual Reality Rendering Engine. Shamans learned to access that information filtered through their own version of Big Toe to have physical application. Because it was cloaked in ritual and mystery the psi uncertainty principle remained in force. Information just is, application is up to us.


What does this all mean? I'm seeking to find reason in things I've felt since a child and have known to be facts without explanation. Awareness doesn't necessarily have to be a free will entity with a drive to evolve. A forest isn't sentient, but have any of you sat in silence and opened up in an old growth forest? There is a presence, and I feel a wordless whisper from a collective awareness that is timeless. Or felt the windriders passing in the sky like great invisible sailing ships, on errands with purpose unknown. Perhaps you've been in a place far away from the works of man and felt the presence of the land, a feeling of ages and wonder. I always listen.



Thanks for reading my rambling, maybe it will fill in a question mark in you Big Toe. I might be way off base, but it is much more clear to me now and I can work with that as time flows by. As they tell me in the Midwest " You really aren't right are you". I just smile and agree with them. ;)

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:22 am 
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Hi John
Oh goodie, a new Stroker thread. Three things come to mind from reading your thread, at least. I think our natural way of being is indigenous, how us developed peoples live is unnatural. Shaman's and the Nazca Lines in Peru, do you know what the lines were for?

Subroutines or maintenance of PMR, have you ever seen the Twilight Zone, in color, that had blue man group looking beings setting up reality two minutes in advance of our experience? They would sometimes forget a prop, say our keys, and have to come back and put it in place. That would answer the looking for something, not finding it, then coming back to look again and finding it thing. The stage of non-dimensional whiteness they built up piece by piece. It reminds me of that episode. I have met one other person who has seen this episode, thank goodness.

I had huge salt ceder trees fall down in my yard on my garden decades ago and I went and sat inside of them that night for a while, they were sad. We communicated.

Speaking of Shaman's, did you check out the link that I put up awhile back for an answer to the Nazca Lines? Shaman totally knew this stuff, MBT was their Big TOE too, just in less technical terms.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:32 am 
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Hi Bette. I just listened to that interview and it makes sense to me. Shaman using the Nazca lines for an out of body test sounds reasonable.

I think that the nature spirits (for lack of a better term) are more a part of the scene than behind the scene movers. More like coordinators who see that the next scene of an improvisational play falls within the boundaries of the rules and intent. Each of them are doing data crunching for their part of the play and sending a possibility list to the Big Computer. A mechanical view would be like sensors gathering data for the Virtual Reality Rendering Engine.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:04 pm 
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I just came back from vacation. We were driving 11 hours one way from Pennsylvania to South Carolina. We had to cross 5 states, and all 11 hours we could not stop saying to each other - look, how beautiful it is on a left, oh, how wonderful it is on a right. Nature has displayed everything at its best; mountains and valleys were covered with gold, yellow, brown, burgundy, red and green colors. A sky was high and so intensely blue. It was an unusual harmony in air. I cannot recall anything even remotely close to what I was seeing. On a way back home skies were all covered with clouds. Mountains were dark and powerful. Trees already lost their leaves and were staying naked. A ground was orange-brown, and only pines were green. I would compare those trees with a naked and unpretentious truth, when you have no doubt or a second thought in your mind. All over sudden I felt so small, not insignificant, but small and humble. It was obvious to me that Mother Nature has mind of its own, she is powerful and gracious. She accepts us, but she would not let us destroy her land, sea, mountains, sky and everything else what we cannot and not able to see, hear or know. I'd like to believe that I was allowed to have a glance (this feeling did stay for couple minutes) into something that was not open to me before. It made me think that we are welcomed here, have permission to live and collect fruits of this world. But we cannot take it all for granted, and have to unlearn our arrogance and believe of our superiority as a species.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:03 pm 
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amen Lena

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:12 am 
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Stroker : A forest isn't sentient, but have any of you sat in silence and opened up in an old growth forest? There is a presence, and I feel a wordless whisper from a collective awareness that is timeless. Or felt the wind-riders passing in the sky like great invisible sailing ships, on errands with purpose unknown. Perhaps you've been in a place far away from the works of man and felt the presence of the land, a feeling of ages and wonder. I always listen. What does this all mean? I'm seeking to find reason in things I've felt since a child and have known to be facts without explanation. They felt as if they had purpose in a way that is alien to our thinking. Usually interaction with them was an acknowledgement of my respect which was returned as they went about their business. When I tried to see into their business with any success, I was strongly pushed away unless my intent was pure and of limited focused. All that I could see was they were aware and they were an active part of PMR that was non-physical, and a bit more impossible to put in words.

Tom: I do share your sense of some primal awareness connected with nature much as you describe it in the above paragraph. However I am not sure of the necessity of RWW web crawlers to feed data to the VRRE. And I wonder why old growth forest would be different than new growth forest as far as rendering goes - and how and why these web crawlers would develop so much emotional attachment and feeling content while performing their data collection services. These primal spirits you and I have encountered seem more personally connected, more like the soul of the forest than data collectors and processors generating information about the forest. But your post did get me thinking. I think you have an interesting hypothesis, but let me pass another one by you for your consideration.

No, trees are not sentient because we define sentience as an interactive being having decision space - and thus possessing free will. What we define as being conscious requires a free will. However I think there may well be continuum of awareness from people to pebbles. In MBT we focused on that part of the awareness continuum that starts with the sentient entity (being) that has the the smallest decision space and goes upward from there to the most highly evolved consciousnesses among us - i.e., those beings with free will - or equivalently: decision space ≥ 0.

Decision space requires an aware "intellect function," however tiny or dim, that makes the decisions that fall within its decision space. There is more to awareness than intellect. All awareness has a feeling component as well as an intellectual component. My thesis here is that the feeling component continues after the intellectual component drops out when the decision space goes to zero and the ability to make and execute free will choices disappears.

Thus trees, for example, though not sentient or conscious, would still have awareness at the feeling/spirit/presence level of existence as opposed to the intellectual/being/consciousness plus feeling/being/consciousness levels that beings with a finite decision space and free will enjoy.

At the feeling/spirit/presence level, evolution still works in the same way but is slower do to the more general and fuzzy nature of feelings as compared to very specific and detailed nature of thoughts. A lower data rate (experience only at the feeling level) feeds a less structured and defined content, which slows the Fundamental Evolutionary Process of assessing profitability criteria against experience and implementing change to satisfy the purpose of lowering system entropy. Nevertheless, the organization of feeling-content into more meaningful, less random, and more powerful configurations lowers the entropy content of the individuated feeling/spirit/presence just as it does within consciousness. Think of this change or growth as being initiated by a free choice of one of several potential emotive states rather than free will -- that way we will define the term "free will" to represent a free selection of potential states of being that contain a mixture of intellect and feeling called thought (even if the though is very dim).

Though each tree would have this individual feeling/spirit/presence awareness, groups of trees could combine their feeling awareness into a common group awareness that would be much stronger and pervasive than a single feeling unit. Consequently one should observe the older and more evolved presence associated with an ancient or primal forest as deeper, more profound, more structured, less random, more powerful, and more highly developed - thus more easily felt and able to communicate to a human consciousness. Consciousness connects to this evolved feeling/spirit/presence through its own feeling/being component. That is why you cannot pursue it intellectually - the information exchange must be exchanged only at the feeling level.

In Strokers words: "When I tried to see into their business with any success, I was strongly pushed away unless my intent was pure and of limited focused". There is no reason that all trees would have the identical awareness - there would no doubt be variations between species and within species just as there are among sentient beings.
No doubt communication at a feeling level takes place all the time among trees and other plants, between trees and animals, and between trees and people. City trees may have completely different "personalities" than forest trees of the same species. Saplings, would have a different level of awareness than more mature trees.

Trees and forests were just one example; the same would work for all living things.

Just as living but non-sentient things duplicate the fractal process of consciousness at their own level of awareness, could not inanimate things repeat that process yet one step lower to include the earth beneath an ancient trade route or battlefields of the civil war. Could these inanimate things retain some of what they experienced at their own level of awareness? So, what about buildings and cities, The stones that make up a particular house, A home and the people in it. The clothes and belongings of a particular person; a man and his favorite chair, place of work, car or motorcycle; a woman and her car, home, kitchen, garden, clothes, or jewelry. Could not inanimate objects duplicate the fractal process of rudimentary feeling awareness at a lower and dimmer level than living things - no so much feeling as we think of and experience feeling, but a rough, simplistic, limited, less detailed, lower data rate, more basic version of feeling awareness that communicates with other stuff and with living things. At this level of communication, evolution would be so slow as to be nearly nonexistent.

In this model, everything has awareness while only sentient beings have consciousness.

I have laid out just the bare minimum of this concept. There is much yet to be thought out - these ideas have just bubbled up in the last hour (a late hour at that) and will no doubt need refining and adjusting. But I thought I would share them with you even though they are just a work in progress. They do nicely answer Stroker's question and cover a good bit more of many peoples subjective experience. Thank you Stroker for pointing out a piece of reality not addressed by MBT.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:10 am 
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Thank you Tom for your reply. It helps me greatly further define and explore this idea and you can see why these feeling interactions have been a mystery to me. That they are on a non verbal feeling level is the key. The information of say trees is not definite enough to get useful (to us) information, but I've always strongly felt their presence. I realize my personal location has no meaning in NPMR, the idea of proximity = signal strength is easier for we beginners to work with on a subconscious level. I have found that with good focus I can reconnect to anyplace geographically I have connected before ( RWW address stored in my favorites). It is easier for me to clear out the noise of other people's thoughts when physically away from them. I fully agree with your thoughts on the nature and origin of our connection with plants and the VR earth. Since the VR has structure with duration over time, it too must participate in experience to be faithfully rendered by the big computer.


Tom: I do share your sense of some primal awareness connected with nature much as you describe it in the above paragraph. However I am not sure of the necessity of RWW web crawlers to feed data to the VRRE. And I wonder why old growth forest would be different than new growth forest as far as rendering goes - and how and why these web crawlers would develop so much emotional attachment and feeling content while performing their data collection services. These primal spirits you and I have encountered seem more personally connected, more like the soul of the forest than data collectors and processors generating information about the forest.

John: I don't see them as web crawlers, more like programs actuating events. I was thinking to explain the non living awarenesses I've encountered over the years. They seem to be individuated with a purpose that is to me unknowable. Usually I just feel them, but in a few occasions when I sent a respectful greeting, it was returned. The reply was non verbal, just feeling and a bit of information which is how I experience telepathy on this level. The strangest one ever I will use as an example here to show how confusing it is.

A few years ago I was hooking up my double trailers as an evening thunderstorm was blowing in. The wind was kicking sharply and there was a strong feeling of something not right. I received a command imperative from somewhere, loud and clear "You need to get out of here." Thirty minutes out I drove through the edge of a tornado, a very dangerous thing for a tractor trailer. As I fought for control, I unwillingly bi located into an awareness high above the ground. No thought, no feelings there, just being. I/we were moving fast and a 360 degree viewpoint showed damage occurring at our base at ground level as we passed. There was no purpose or sense of intelligence there, or even the sense of duration of existence, as if conditions had spontaneously generated this awareness and it would disappear when conditions changed (back to NPMR as a program coded to generate the iteration of these type of events?) and manifest again at the next location where conditions were right. This happened in only a few seconds, then I completed my trip very confused. The next morning when I returned my truck terminal had been hit by a small tornado and the area where I had hooked up the trailers received the most damage. The wind threw 3000 lb converter dollies across the lot and overturned trailers. I knew it was the same storm awareness that I had experienced the previous night and driven through. Was I projecting my awareness into an organized energy pattern of sufficient complexity to fool me? It didn't feel like it. Very confusing stuff indeed.

I'm beginning to see more connections in these patterns of experience. I agree that plants evolve very slowly at the feeling/spirit/presence level, as living systems that makes sense. A little harder to rationalize is the earth as a dynamic, evolving VR system. As a complex interactive program with duration over time, it would evolve as its ruleset allowed. As Roland pointed out in his thread on Rocks Evolve Too, life itself has profound long term effects on the earth and this interaction would contribute to this kind of evolution. Not necessarily lowering entropy kind of evolution, but as a developed program/pattern template for future reference by TBC. Our operating system (OS) must have hierarchies of subroutines executing iterations and gathering execution data, consolidating it up through the ranks to reduce the computational load of the Big CPU. Say perhaps the tornado I connected with would be an example of a program with outlines of how to generate iterations of storms large and small. Its ruleset would interact with the other programs that set the initial conditions for its activation and have a limited decision space in which to act. This is what we all are at the VR level, including NPMR, codes of consciousness information. The difference would be the level of complexity and potential for growth and lowering entropy. The non sentient programs would evolve as their ability to perform their functions improved due to feedback from each run of the program and system evolution as a whole. The governing ruleset would be modified, therefore lowering entropy.


Perhaps these subroutines I have described are what I feel. Their existence and awareness aren't in question to me. I guess what I'm trying to say is what is the difference between fast track entropy reduction programs (life) and all the other consciousness code constructs of Our System? Only in how we contribute to the purpose, the prime directive of evolution. Organized consciousness is awareness and awareness is more universal than I previously understood. Complexity of organization doesn't mean sentience, but does give presence and information storage and processing capacity.

This has indeed been fun Tom. I'm learning!

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:48 am 
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Tom and John,

I have nothing of direct experience to contribute. Shamanic and Ecstatic States activities have been practices that never seemed to let me beyond cracking open the door. Apparently as something to divert me rather than teach me. But I see a pattern that I think is really there. Let me refer you again to the work of Felicitas Goodman who founded Cuyamungue Institute http://www.cuyamungueinstitute.com/ Felicitas Goodman also had research associates in Germany and there is another web site associated with her work. http://www.felicitas-goodman-institut.d ... nglish.php An internet search for Felicitas Goodman together with ecstatic trance will provide more links.

To describe too briefly the work of Felicitas Goodman, working with ecstatic trance and ritual postures, this fits well into the general shamanic pattern. Specifically she noted the appearance of small statuettes dating back to pre literate times from all around the world, multiple cultural in origin, that bore striking resemblances in groups. It was noted that these statuettes presented specific postures. Eventually, not clear in my memory of her books, these images were linked to ecstatic trance induced by drumming or rattling with the participants placing themselves in the postures presented in the images. It was found that the multiple participants in these ceremonies to induce ecstatic trances would have a similar class of experiences related to the specific posture. Or they might experience a sequence of experiences distributed among the group's members that could be put into order and recounted as an extended story or explanation of the purpose of the posture.

Basically, she described a group of widely distributed 'beliefs', with some approaching world wide, represented by the specific statuettes and the postures they specified. There was a resulting equivalence to the experiences of those entering trance states based upon maintaining the postures. This effect was so strong that after thousands of years, modern participants with no prior knowledge could pick up on an ancient practice. These postures were applicable for healing, for divination, for learning about rituals, for teaching and other shamanic purposes.

Now let me link this to something reported by Carlos Castaneda. He described the plant/man Mescalito who appeared to some participants in peyote culture in Mexico. Leaving aside the doubts of many regarding the reliability of Carlos Castaneda, Mescalito was described as appearing to those participating in much the same way. There was an apparent consistency from participant to participant. An agreement that Mescalito could, if he agreed, teach you 'the right way to live'. That Mescalito could be a guide to you in your life as a participant in peyote ritual. There are other consistencies reported, for instance by Michael Harner, among the reports of those experiencing other hallucinogenic drug states under shamanic dominated conditions.

I have long had the insight, rightly or wrongly, that this was an extension of or another aspect of guides for us here in PMR. Basically I have felt that there were individuated consciousnesses, or groups working together in NPMR, who took on the roles of appearing to their 'clients' as Mescalito, or grandfather bear (one of the ritual postures for healing) or any of the other known or unknown 'spirits' that are there to help our fellow PMR participants who participate in a tribal culture with a still active shamanic element. I think that if you read more fully into these reported cultural aspects, you would be more prepared to agree with my description. Not everyone's culture leads them into meditation and the kind of guidance that we might seek or the level of information that we seek.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 4:16 pm 
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Ted,

I certainly do agree -- guides will take whatever form that is required to do their job (help us grow higher quality consciousness).

John,

I have experiences that are much like your storm experience. Using your storm example, I thought that such experiences were generated by my personal connection to the reality and existence of the storm. A connection triggered by my entanglement with the probable future in a dramatic way if i don't make certain choices (like to get the hell out of there) and facilitated by my guides who are helping me serve my purpose and complete my mission (which did not include me being at the site of destruction this time). (I have been thus "saved" by my guides in ways both great and small many, many times)

More technically: I was receiving data from the probable future database and from the actualized past database (which begins just one delta-t after the present moment). Since the storm must be rendered according to the rule-set, its path and destructive potential are accurately predictable, thus such data is very precise and comprehensive. When I get the data stream depicting the storm, I interpret it (as I must) as centered within my own perspective. What this means is that, like you, I identify with the storm - I am the storm's awareness and see from the storm's perspective -- but also I am more than the storm, I feel but also understand - like watching a movie and being a character in it at the same time.

Perhaps some of your experiences are you picking up data that is being given to you because the experience of it has a positive effect on your growth and understanding and/or provides you with information or an understanding you need to succeed at what you are supposed to do, to guide you toward the connections and interactions you are supposed to make during this experience packet.

Tom C


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:10 pm 
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Hi Ted. Those links are very interesting. Thanks. I just looked through them a bit and will give this much further thought. Your input is always welcome.

Hi Tom. I too have had my bacon saved by my guides more times than I can count or remember. Usually this precognition isn't so dramatic or disorienting :)
I agree with your summary and is probably the best I can understand it right now. That is the most likely scenario of the storm experience, there are still for me some vague threads of a pattern leading to a larger picture. Time and understanding will eventually resolve them. This will explain situations in which I am personally involved and an active participant. The times when I am not and have no intent in the experience are the ones leading me to wonder why. I always follow the anomalies in the patterns, often to a dead end, sometimes to a larger understanding.

I thought about my earlier post today and had a bit more insight. When we define consciousness, sentience and awareness as we must to rationally discuss them, we are limiting them to certain conditions and measurements. I understand that in the larger reality these limits don't exist and the differences between them are mostly in our need to define and measure. Its what we have to work with focused here in PMR and will have to do.

Tom, I'm seeing the hazards of trying to limit and define NPMR experience into PMR terms. It is indeed hard to faithfully exchange. AUM bless you my friend.

Oh, I see!
I/we/ they already have!

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:15 pm 
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John: I thought about my earlier post today and had a bit more insight. When we define consciousness, sentience and awareness as we must to rationally discuss them, we are limiting them to certain conditions and measurements. I understand that in the larger reality these limits don't exist and the differences between them are mostly in our need to define and measure. Its what we have to work with focused here in PMR and will have to do.

Tom: Yes. That is why I often repeat the phrase: Don't confuse the model of reality with reality. Or if you prefer: Don't confuse the map with the territory.

If we are to communicate within PMR, We have no choice but to use the language, terms, and concepts of PMR that our audience understands. A consequence: The less informed/experienced the audience to whom we try to explain the larger reality, the more we are forced to use imprecise and vague metaphors that are inadequate to support our communication. Thus learning is always iterative. Language, with its inherent implicit beliefs and assumptions, and the implicit and explicit beliefs of the listener, represent the fundamental limitation to sharing knowledge.

Tom C


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:35 am 
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Ted: To describe too briefly the work of Felicitas Goodman, working with ecstatic trance and ritual postures, this fits well into the general shamanic pattern. Specifically she noted the appearance of small statuettes dating back to pre literate times from all around the world, multiple cultural in origin, that bore striking resemblances in groups. It was noted that these statuettes presented specific postures. Eventually, not clear in my memory of her books, these images were linked to ecstatic trance induced by drumming or rattling with the participants placing themselves in the postures presented in the images. It was found that the multiple participants in these ceremonies to induce ecstatic trances would have a similar class of experiences related to the specific posture. Or they might experience a sequence of experiences distributed among the group's members that could be put into order and recounted as an extended story or explanation of the purpose of the posture.


John: This has been fascinating stuff Ted. I didn't know that ritual postures from around the world seem to have a pattern of similar results. The ceremonies must focus the intent of the participants on specific RWW addressess to do this. It could be a sentient being's address and perhaps some might be the aware programs I was trying to describe. I think you do see a pattern and I'll do my best to find more of it. There is a link there to some of my idea. For instance when rain dancers call in a storm, are they affecting the probabilities of atmospheric events or accessing a local program that executes the iteration of their weather. I understand that it could just be direct input into the VRRE, but that gives the picture of one thing rendering all PMR things. In a multiverse, I think the VRRE would be countless units of different size (complexity) working as a whole to iterate our reality. Any part of it would have an RWW address and a unique awareness and attributes of its size, complexity, and task orientation.




Ted: I have long had the insight, rightly or wrongly, that this was an extension of or another aspect of guides for us here in PMR. Basically I have felt that there were individuated consciousnesses, or groups working together in NPMR, who took on the roles of appearing to their 'clients' as Mescalito, or grandfather bear (one of the ritual postures for healing) or any of the other known or unknown 'spirits' that are there to help our fellow PMR participants who participate in a tribal culture with a still active shamanic element. I think that if you read more fully into these reported cultural aspects, you would be more prepared to agree with my description. Not everyone's culture leads them into meditation and the kind of guidance that we might seek or the level of information that we seek.


John: I agree Ted and know guides can present any form to us if it is profitable. With the multiple roles all things play in evolution, the difference between a conscious source of information and one that is only complex interactive awareness would be the level of interaction with us.

Consider the Earth. It is a dynamic simulation with duration and stability. The simulation by the VRRE generates our perception of reality for the purpose of evolution. We too at another level are dynamic simulations with duration and stability with the addition of sentience and the potential to evolve.

Sorry, its late and I must be getting fuzzy my friend. I guess what I'm getting at is the line between programmer and program, consciousness and awareness, oversoul and VR experience is much less definite than we can presently imagine. I embrace your model of the VRRE for the work of art it is and look for new connections in my understanding and myself. Your ideas are always welcome and given much thought.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:15 am 
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Quote:
No, trees are not sentient because we define sentience as an interactive being having decision space - and thus possessing free will. What we define as being conscious requires a free will. However I think there may well be continuum of awareness from people to pebbles. In MBT we focused on that part of the awareness continuum that starts with the sentient entity (being) that has the the smallest decision space and goes upward from there to the most highly evolved consciousnesses among us - i.e., those beings with free will - or equivalently: decision space ≥ 0.

Quote:
In this model, everything has awareness while only sentient beings have consciousness.

I have laid out just the bare minimum of this concept. There is much yet to be thought out - these ideas have just bubbled up in the last hour (a late hour at that) and will no doubt need refining and adjusting. But I thought I would share them with you even though they are just a work in progress. They do nicely answer Stroker's question and cover a good bit more of many peoples subjective experience. Thank you Stroker for pointing out a piece of reality not addressed by MBT.
Dan:
Excepting PERHAPS only MBT itself this is the single most useful and FASCINATING thread (to me) I have run across here yet (tho I am only about halfway through the posts).

I will keep looking but if this has been expounded upon elsewhere, and the reference is handy, I would appreciate it. I will probably have some questions at some point. I replied to it now so as to bring it back to everyone's attention in case some hadn't seen it and might find it as fascinating as I do (and therefore might ask questions so I don't have to :-).

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"Whenever one's conceptualization of reality (or of anything real) rests upon the absolute, the infinite, or the perfect, one should question the underlying assumptions very closely and expect to find a fallacy." - Uncle Tom Campbell


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:52 pm 
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Quote:
Its what we have to work with focused here in PMR and will have to do.
Mayhaps it is 'time' for new tools, or alternate use of the tools we have.

Also in response to Dan's post I have the thought going through my head that if something can be either alive or dead it has some sentience. Tree's fit this in that way, but I don't feel the fit. I think it has to do with choice. What choices can a tree make, any? I think not, they can make no choice. If conditions are favorable they live, if not they die, it's not like they can move. Then I consider their root system, and how in their search for water can move right into my plumbing to mess up the works there. I've communicated with trees, of course I was on LSD, but I did, we did, it happened. It wasn't words it was feelings. wtf :-0 There is the tool I spoke of above, mayhaps? Feeling, nothing more than feelings?

Isn't this fun? ;)

Love
Bette

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what is?
Consciousness.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:00 am 
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https://www.monroeinstitute.org/sites/d ... _Tape6.mp3
from 32:40 (transcript on page 52-54, Far Journeys), plants evolve to animals, animals evolve to human.

I share evidence for people to build their Big TOE.


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