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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:13 am 
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Hi!
Today i was trying to get lucid dream,i was visualizating some scenario and after about 30 minutes i started to separate from body,i found my self in black void,it was all fuzzy so i think; "clarity now!",next thing i see was like in star trek,stars are passing by me,then i stop,i seen big field of stars,bright dots,i think i pass thru one,it was like cell,living organism.
does anyone know more about that field?I know all that Tom said,and it ain't much..


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:03 am 
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Damir,

I think that the reason that Tom does not say more about that 'field' is that there is not much to say about it. It is not a 'field' with things in it nor with specific attributes and thus to be specifically describable or delineated. It is more a potential and open to use and the purposes of the user. I think that even if you were not conscious of an idea or purpose in what you saw, there was probably an unconscious purpose available so you saw what you saw based upon that purpose. Think of it as a field for the expression of your imagination. See where that approach can take you. That does not describe a 'field' with much in the way of limitations. Like comparing the open rule set of NPMR to the rigid rule set of PMR.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:45 am 
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:50 am 
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Tom said in a recent interview that you experience the Void when you cut out the PMR data stream. The rest may be from your imagination.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:04 pm 
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It might be just an imagination,personal experience,or we all read somewhere that there is a star field in void and that's what we see,what we believe.
Tom said,that when we are in void,we don't have input data,from any virtual reality.
Maybe it's real..maybe every star that we see is one virtual reality..who knows..
:)


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:15 pm 
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Damir,

We seem to experience 'Void like' data streams, or lack of data streams, in more than one context.

We can perceive 'the Void' as this lack of data or lack of PMR noise/mental chatter, just as a matter of course as we develop our skills at meditation. I would say that this is the Void that you refer to when you repeat that Tom says this is without an input data stream.

Then there is another perception, which is part of an anciently observed sequence for mystically inclined metaphysicians. I have mentioned this sequence before as something which I have perceived/experienced.
  • * The Void: a view of the LCS before it starts to 'calculate' as data interacts with data in the Reality Cells that Tom postulates as the origin of the LCS.
    * The quickened Void: a view of the LCS at the instant that it starts to 'calculate' as Reality Cells and contained data begin to interact.
    * Indra's Net: a view of the IUOCs as they pass messages back and forth amongst themselves, referred to in this tradition as observing the jewels of consciousness reflecting each other infinitely between their 'facets'.
I have pointed out that these observations must be provided to us by the LCS or AUM itself, to 'show itself' to us, as there is no way that we as IUOCs could observe this as an 'actual experience' on our own. We are talking about observing the non physical LCS as it exists in itself and within which we exist as data and processing ability as IUOCs. There we have no 'eyes' and there is nothing to see or light to see by as the non material substrate of the basis of reality. The idea that I am attempting to explain is that there can be more than one concept and reality to the experience which we call the Void. In what ever situation perceived, to have reached the experience of the Void represents a level of achievement in the development of our ability to meditate, to be conscious and open to perception while intruding no 'noise' of our own into this perception.

Perceiving 'lights' or traversing a 'star field' must be either our imagination as something which we create ourselves or an image transmitted to us, an experience supplied to us. The actual PMR 'star field' thought of as 'out there', actually only exists within the data stream that provides our experience of PMR to us. Not a visualization of VRs.

Ted


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:07 am 
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:30 pm 
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To float in the Void means to float in blackness with no other sensations - not movement, not color, not sound, not other sensations. If you are feeling wind you are still interpreting another data stream.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:56 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:54 pm 
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As I explained earlier in this thread, there is more than one experience of the Void. The perception of floating in the Void tends to come from the lack of any sensory input. Without gravity, like in space, there is no sense of 'this way is up'. You are floating. Perhaps read about lying in a sensory deprivation tank. As you get old and perhaps have neuropathy and balance problems, you might find yourself experiencing this to some degree most anywhere. That's why I use a 'walking stick' as it provides another point of reference, orientation and balance. When in the void, you have no point of reference and none of your usual perceptions. You must interpret whatever you are given or make it up out of past experience and insert it into the 'blank'. Yet somehow you do seem to get something that makes it clear to you that you are in a vast, boundless 'place' and somehow feel that there is potentially everything 'almost' there, nascent as the word is defined and also incipient. How this is done, I cannot either understand or explain, other than to note that not all of your thinking and communication is conscious. No one ever seems to really be able to put words together that adequately explain what is to be experienced there as logically there is no experience there. This is something that is simply provided to you.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:33 am 
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:50 am 
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I was giving you Tom's definition. Maybe push yourself to go a little further.

Tom:That is, be able to find and remain in that state where you have shut out all the ego and background noise and exist only as a single point of consciousness (awareness) floating in an empty silent void. At that point you are nothing but intent just waiting to be focused.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=473&p=1425&hilit=void#p1425

The idea is to shut out all stimuli and artifacts of PMR that distract you from existing as pure consciousness in the void.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2848&p=4629&hilit=void#p4629

It is not so much that one experiences blackness as it is that one experiences nothing (the void) except their own existence. With no awareness of ANY input to or from any of your senses, it is like the ultimate sensory deprivation chamber. Nothing but an awareness of existing and being aware -- i.e., the pure experience of being conscious with absolutely nothing else going on. A point (no sense of dimension) of consciousness existing within the void.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2848&p=4635&hilit=void#p4635


If you can get to and maintain an altered state where you are point consciousness in the void (no thoughts, no distractions or awareness of PMR) then you don't need any meditation process -- you just jumped to the endpoint without the process. Either enjoy a nice float in the void or harness your intent and do whatever.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3139&p=7284&hilit=void#p7284

One typically starts this journey to explore beyond PMR attachments with meditation. With enough practice one learns to let go of local operative thoughts and PMR sensory inputs and experience pure consciousness, pure awareness with no thoughts and no sensory input from PMR -- this is the void -- perfect sensory deprivation and a perfectly still mind aware of nothing but its own existence. The void is a good place to just float around and feel totally integrated and connected with All That Is at a visceral level -- to experience your own consciousness as a point of aware existence within The One. Because in this state you are aware of your existence but have no direct awareness of PMR, you are no longer body centered -- you are out of your body. Some take 20 years to get to this point because their beliefs and expectations put this experience outside of their reality. Some get there in a few weeks. At this point you can use your intent to focus or drive your consciousness to do what you want it to do -- heal someone, remote view, walk around on Mars, explore the available data bases, or communicate with some other consciousness in either PMR or NPMR. You can think rationally, make decisions and express your will coherently - your mind is clear, easily focused, and at your command rather than being submerged within your randomly chattering ego. Your intent is what you will. Your intent/will is normally obfuscated beneath a pile of self-referential high entropy jabber and ego junk but because you have learned to reduce that to zero -- now it is just you "the consciousness" and the void that is The One. You are now in control of, the captain of, your mind.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3139&p=7298&hilit=void#p7298


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:31 am 
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My experience is that the void state has two sides: a PMR side and an NPMR side. If we are more attached to PMR at the time, the void state might feel more like a state of mind - a stillness of thoughts, a darkness, a sense of nothing. If we are more attached to NPMR at the time, then the void state can feel like a state and an actual "place" of sorts. In the case of when we are more attached to NPMR, we can more openly interpret the experience of the void state - so we may actually have the real sense that we are a point of awareness floating in a void. With our awareness more in PMR, our interpretation is slightly more limited (based on the ruleset). It would seem that a blending of the two is possible as well.

From the more PMR slanted void state, intent doesn't seem have much leverage (mine doesn't anyway). However, in the NPMR slanted void state, thoughts create instant results.

Again, that is just my experience. I'm still sorting it out.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:42 am 
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Justin,

I think that you are 'onto something' as in developing a very useful way of stating this, the different aspects of the Void as it is interpreted. A PMR based approach and an NPMR based approach.

Try this as a perhaps expansion of this concept and explaining the differences. Would you agree that the PMR sided view you describe amounts to a closing off, a rejection of the PMR sense data and a cutting off of internal thought stream. Contrast this with the NPMR sided view of opening up to whatever offers, being open and receptive to new experience. Do these rephrasings agree with what you are saying?

There has been some discussion not long ago on the board with some disagreement as to Tom said this and Tom said that regarding the Void. I gave my explanation of the arising of these differences but did not think of as good a wording as I think you are heading towards here. It would be very difficult, for me, to find that thread again unless the person involved or someone who read it comes forward and points us to that discussion. I think these statements by you would be an addition to that discussion, expanding on and clarifying the nature of the Void.

Ted


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:40 pm 
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Quote:
Justin,

I think that you are 'onto something' as in developing a very useful way of stating this, the different aspects of the Void as it is interpreted. A PMR based approach and an NPMR based approach.

Try this as a perhaps expansion of this concept and explaining the differences. Would you agree that the PMR sided view you describe amounts to a closing off, a rejection of the PMR sense data and a cutting off of internal thought stream. Contrast this with the NPMR sided view of opening up to whatever offers, being open and receptive to new experience. Do these rephrasings agree with what you are saying?

There has been some discussion not long ago on the board with some disagreement as to Tom said this and Tom said that regarding the Void. I gave my explanation of the arising of these differences but did not think of as good a wording as I think you are heading towards here. It would be very difficult, for me, to find that thread again unless the person involved or someone who read it comes forward and points us to that discussion. I think these statements by you would be an addition to that discussion, expanding on and clarifying the nature of the Void.

Ted
That seems to be in agreement, yes. In either case, the void state involves a clear and focused mind. In the PMR centric version, that is about as far as you can take it - quiet stillness. However, if we are in a NPMR centric void state, that quiet stillness becomes a more tangible experience and can be interpreted based on the NPMR ruleset (less constraints). Again, we can be partly based in PMR and partly in NPMR. So we might be sitting in a good meditation state and start getting glimpses of the NPMR side - perhaps interpreted as floating, spinning, tumbling, sinking, 3D darkness, etc. The PMR side might contain more limited interpretations such as non-location and silent darkness. If we are fully based in NPMR in a void state, we might have the vivid experience of floating in a vast expanse of nothing. It is from the NPMR side that intent creates instant results. That is my limited experience anyway.

As far as I know, being in a void state does not mean that we are no longer bound by the rules of NPMR. So it seems logical that we are still based “in” (or “filed” under) the constraints of either NPMR or PMR - even if we are not receiving any of the data.

All of the same concepts hold true in my experience with transitioning between PMR & NPMR.

I think it was in the movie The Path: Beyond the Physical that Tom used an analogy of trying to watch two TVs - each showing something completely different. If you don't know that there are two separate TVs or if you don't know how to differentiate one from the other, things seem pretty garbled and messy. In the case of being partly based in PMR and NPMR in a void state, It would maybe be like two TVs showing different versions of the same movie. Mix that with subjective interpretations and we end up with multiple descriptions of what the void state is and what if feels like.

The key thing for me is that the NPMR version of the void state has a very clear and distinct feeling of not being “in Kansas anymore."

Edit: I tend to think visually. Maybe these are helpful for others. These just show visually that our awareness can be in one or more reality at a time. In the case of the void state, it might be more accurate to say that we can be "based" in more than one reality at a time.
Attachment:
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awarness_PMR.jpg [ 24.42 KiB | Viewed 1585 times ]
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awarness_NPMR.jpg [ 23.78 KiB | Viewed 1585 times ]
Attachment:
awarness_full_NPMR.jpg
awarness_full_NPMR.jpg [ 24 KiB | Viewed 1585 times ]

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