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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:18 am 
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I guess we are stuck in a huge positive feedback loop of destructive entropy and that we are not making much progress at all. (Some of us were always ahead of the game ... even 5000 years ago but other than that not much has changed fundamentally?)
I'm not sure why you think this is true. Look at different points in history and see what the laws and social customs were. Things may move more slowly than you would like. And there are definitely repressive governments that spring up from time to time. But all in all the system is slowly evolving. It is an open system with new low level consciousnesses coming in and few high level consciousnesses evolving out. That keeps the entropy level of the system pretty low and the evolution slow.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:30 pm 
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Camel,

Tom has written about this before. Particularly pertinent is that this is an entry level PMR with many 'new' and as yet undeveloped IUOCs experiencing incarnation here. And as there are always more new ones coming in, the level does not rise with development of those newcomers over time. The balance of development remains about the same. If you look into past history, there have been great improvements. Slavery and serfdom and indentured servants are much less evident, but still existing. Medieval rights of individual local lords to administer arbitrary 'justice' to those who he controlled are no more. Kings became responsible to their subjects with constitutional monarchies and the nobles were controlled long ago. There is a continuing effort to maintain a Plutocracy, but there is a potential for sufficiently wide understanding of what is going on to counteract this. We do now have national systems of law and even international systems of law and international organizations like the United Nations. While nothing is 'right', there is still real potential for continued improvement if we keep working towards it. The Internet represents a major potential for change by making information internationally available, presuming that it isn't taken over by the big corporations and 'net neutrality' is maintained or any of the individual countries efforts at Internet censorship can eventually be halted.

Ted


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:04 pm 
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I'm not sure why you think this is true. Look at different points in history and see what the laws and social customs were. Things may move more slowly than you would like.
Has there really been a fundamental improvement during the past 5000 years? I don't think so. We got more slavery, violence, fear and destruction than ever before. The really sad thing is that we experience all of this totally unnecessarily in this era of total abundance. 85% of all employed people do irrelevant systemic stuff just because of systemic anxiety. That's slavery/coercion on an epic scale ... plus it's totally unnecessary at the same time. Slavery is always a horrible thing but today it's not even creating any value at all.

(David Graeber wrote another wonderful book about the development of our fear and competition based socioeconomic framework during the past 5000 years. You can also read it online for free via https://libcom.org/library/debt-first-5 ... id-graeber )

I understand that a training environment needs to provide certain evolutionary pressures in order to induce/facilitate (hopefully) positive development but I don't think that our particular reality will produce much spiritual growth in the not so distant future if we continue along our path? Clearly too much pressure and too many crises can quickly become counterproductive and systemic entropy unmanageably high?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 1:53 pm 
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camel,

It is not perfectly clear what you mean in this post as you are making your own definition of what is slavery and not being totally clear about it. There has clearly been advances in society when you consider that back less than 1000 years ago, people were serfs bound to the land and the local lordling could take your daughter or wife, if he thought they were pretty and desirable, and make them his body slaves and if you objected, slay you outright. Think how it would feel to be one of the slaves building the Egyptian pyramids? The world has at least progressed to where there is a democracy, even if manipulated by a plutocracy behind the scenes through their bought politicians.

Ted


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:03 am 
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The question in the title sprang to mind these days when watching a video of Tom's. He repeatedly makes the distinction between acting in a way and being that way, at an individual level. In other words, you can act nicely from your intellect, not from your being. That makes you appear more civilized, but it doesn't mean you lowered your entropy.

So what happens when we move from individual to societies? Tom makes the same point as Ted above, saying that look at how the world was 200 years ago...clearly there's a progress. But the big question, is it a progress at the being level or just civilization? I remember another example Tom gave that I believe is pertinent: let's say a bully and mugger when preparing his next incarnation says that he's been a bad boy because he was born poor. So now he gets incarnated in a rich family. If his IUOC's entropy is high, he'll become a boss who abuses his employees, or a white collar criminal. Same actions, only in different environments.

So we don't have slavery like 200 years ago, but are we actually better? Or are we just as bad within a more constrained environment?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:22 am 
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Progress on lowering entropy and raisin QOC is very slow. It takes a full incarnation cycle to create a small incremental gain. That is because our IUOCs as digital minds in the LCS require significant 'force' to create change in the code of which they are composed. PMR societies in contrast are relatively labile. They can make significant changes, either forwards as in the last two presidential elections or backwards as in this presidential election. And it may flip the other way next time. Within my own lifetime, the world has encompassed two peaks in the authoritarian cycle.

Ted


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:15 am 
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The question in the title sprang to mind these days when watching a video of Tom's. He repeatedly makes the distinction between acting in a way and being that way, at an individual level. In other words, you can act nicely from your intellect, not from your being. That makes you appear more civilized, but it doesn't mean you lowered your entropy.

So what happens when we move from individual to societies? Tom makes the same point as Ted above, saying that look at how the world was 200 years ago...clearly there's a progress. But the big question, is it a progress at the being level or just civilization? I remember another example Tom gave that I believe is pertinent: let's say a bully and mugger when preparing his next incarnation says that he's been a bad boy because he was born poor. So now he gets incarnated in a rich family. If his IUOC's entropy is high, he'll become a boss who abuses his employees, or a white collar criminal. Same actions, only in different environments.

So we don't have slavery like 200 years ago, but are we actually better? Or are we just as bad within a more constrained environment?
As the IUOCs lower there entropy and increase their QOC they become more empathetic, and therefore less able to harm others. They come to understand that when others do well they do well and vice versa. This happens only on an individual level, but when enough people figure it out through many incarnations the results manifest themselves in the society and culture. The society and culture can do nothing other than represent the average QOC of the individuals that comprise it. Individuality is never lost, there is only a greater capacity to express individuality within the society and culture.

Yes! We are better than we have ever been. Let's keep up the good work! :)


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:29 pm 
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It doesn't matter because time/space is an illusion. You as consciousness can become a male/female at any point in history, so what's the point if humanity is progressing or not...

The real question is about IF YOU are progressing?

Human addicts won't


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