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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:02 am 
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RC,

As you said: "There is really nothing to do!" "What a load of[f] when you finally really get that! Maybe I am wrong though!"

That is the heart and beauty of the system and you are not wrong. It is designed to automatically get us all where we need to go as higher quality, loving, lower entropy individuated beings without having to do anything other than follow the dictates of the rules and protocols built into the system. The governing rule sets of our virtual reality experiences and the normal procedures of participating in them. And we also have the option, that you have been trying to make use of and that Tom has so greatly contributed to, of developing an understanding of how the system works in order to expedite the learning and development process. You do not have to take this path of learning, but it can expedite development if sincerely followed with the model of reality resulting understood at the deepest levels of your being instead of just entered into your superficial intellectual level. It then becomes part of your Intent and concomitantly part of your matching Self Concept. A true understanding of your true nature as an individuated being within the Union of The One/AUM and that we are all the same at base can guide you in your interactions with others and accelerate the development of love and lowering of entropy within your being.

Ted


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:31 am 
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"When I read what you have written - I feel you have read my mind, realised that my thoughts tried to approximate something and then decided to do a better approximation with your written dialogue. If that makes any sense."

Well RC, what's neat is that if you really introspect the hell out of yourself, you basically more or less know everyone else. We all go though the same problems dramas concerning self, others, and that strange disstatifcation that manages to get us out of the bed.

Also, I was raised by a Southerner and novelist so I have an unfair advantage in the field of word mismanagement.

------------------------------------------------------

Anyway I would hazard a guess that you may actually understand that in truth...

"There is really nothing to do!"

What a load of when you finally really get that! Maybe I am wrong though!

See Ted's post. There's nothing to do and then there is doing nothing. Two very different things. That's why i suggest taking it easy and enjoying yourself, doing so you'll actually be calm enough to notice when certain system actions directly intended to engage, upgrade, raise the quality of your consciousness arise within your conscious decision space. If you're too busy freaking out over something arising out of belief, ego, or fear--then you are just not going to notice anything. Action/decision space expands as soon as belief, ego, fear, identifying with the channel clicking of the mind, releasing one's self from worries over the tyranny of convention, breaking free of nostalgia, are "SEEN" as being tiny tiny little "things." You realize you were trying to engage a microscopic world when really you are a big kid. It's just that microscopic world is where all the great jealous, lustful, hateful, murderous, neurotic, drama comes from. SO in the human tunnel vision it's played up via high tech and saturation of the landscape to be much more important than it actually is. Much, much more. RC, it's kids stuff. One will be able to let go of it when one can let go of it. Meditation can help in the letting go on occasion, BUT I would suggest a form of meditation that relies only on the meditator being relaxed and not fighting anything that happens in the mind. Just letting it all be and observing it. It's kind of like watching the activities upon a horizon before trying to do anything about it.

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I wrote a book about Tom: http://amzn.to/2knSVJX


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:59 am 
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edge, rc, and All, I absolutely love you, and isn't this fun? :)
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Bette

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:58 am 
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You're right, B. It is really, massively fun. And its not that delusional kind of fun (well what fun isn't delusional)*? I feel Tom just had the insight to take the whole goddamn trauma of being and presented it in a certain mode that revealed not only being's major points, missed corners, etc but was somehow also able to compel the audience into checking this stuff out. Which has been rewarding. So in a sense he won. Major. The series is totally unique, it is the stuff of fantastic sci lit as well as being wonderfully unconventional in its presentation, and it motivates the interested reader into a state of regular introspection. That's far from ordinary. Of course as an early reader I spent a lot of time in the corner trying to gauge whether or not a thought/feeling/action was entropy reducing to a degree of near social paralysis BUT then I came across the realization that my all to common "freak-out mode" had just graphed the MBT construct onto preexisting neuroses. Once you, now this is gonna sound a little weird for this crowd, STOP CARING--In a sense BE OPEN--EXPLORE, its easier to recognize that which is entropy producing in your life. And once you are relaxed about the existence of such things and you're not so quick to think END OF THE WORLD based on the fact that well one still has a smoking habit to kick, or something like that, it's easier to deal with such issues present in your life.

- - -

A Lesson in apparent meaninglessness:

*If you hang with poets, and I have the great misfortune of not only hanging with them but "acting as one" as well, you tend to be goofy. One of the great pastimes of poets and Southerners is the use of the anti-comment. Which means making an interjection that is apparently meaningless. For example, a friend of yours doesn't understand your opinion and presses you about to point that the conversation requires the use of such an anti-comment: "Why? Cause the wind is pink, bubba. And you're far too busy playing polo on the ceiling to take heed."

Anyway on the level of delusional fun. I was wondering over the subject of derangement. It seems at times it is impossible for part of us not to undergo at some level a derangement of self. For example if you walk onto a playground at night your sense/feel of things becomes deranged (not totally but there is a kind of "shift" ). Take it to family thanksgiving dinner, tell me that is not a deranging experience. Or traffics jams. Etcetera etcetra. Your whole sense of what must be done what is and so forth alters. This brings to mind the idea of the Greek gods and how they represented "feels like" more than anything. YET it seems the less involved you are with the feel/sense of a place WHILE ALSO maintaining a knowledge of the presence/sense of a place you are able to function in a "more open" kind of way.

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I wrote a book about Tom: http://amzn.to/2knSVJX


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:47 pm 
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RC,

I would agree, there is nothing we must do -- yet, there is much to become.

Unfortunately it is the nature of our reality's rule-set that we believe we must do to become -- because our PMR is designed to be a reality of doing and interacting. We do whatever comes to us at the moment -- what we do matters little -- the intent behind the doing is an expression of our being that matters much. The feedback from the doing informs the quality of the being to modify its intent -- this is the bootstrap by which we pull ourselves up.

Tom C


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:30 pm 
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Ted's intent chapter.
http://www.active-mysticism.com/Intent-2_5-1_0.pdf
This chapter is based on the concept of intent as discussed in MBT.

INTENT appears to be a key in cultivating the quality of your consciousness. If you are talking about the Bigger Picture to sound smarter with a group of people who have no idea or way to relate to what your talking about there will be in NO INCREASE in the quality of your consciousness and not to mention the obvious repercussion: you'll piss off your friends. IF your INTENT is to help others than, VIOLA! Are you sitting in the corner to discover who you are/what the system is, or are you appealing to your "spiritual" vanity? It all has to do with WHY you are doing what you are doing, not so much HOW you are trying to translate that intent into physical action within PMR. (Tom mentions this in a post somewhere on the forum). If "enlightenment" is what you desire because you realize you're running amok of things and you want to have an "enhanced perspective" to better evaluate what it is you're doing so you can put an end to such madness, than that would be a little "better" than seeking "enlightenment" to experience some kind of prolonged celestial orgasm...Well, in short, all answers point to no.

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I wrote a book about Tom: http://amzn.to/2knSVJX


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:25 am 
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Thanks Tom, Ted and Edge, and others

I have mused over such things for a long time and thought I had two peices that did not fit. But somehow you guys have sandpapered away an edge here and an edge there and handed the two pieces backed to me joined.

I feel a little like a kid who wonders after seeing a magician perform some magic whether he really has the magic or whether he is just performing a trick - either way its entertaining!

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I am of no caste and no creed.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:19 pm 
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Hey guys, in regard to this and past discussions- I wanted to post a video interview with Amit Goswami, a physicist who was featured in What the Bleep Do we Know?. Now, I understand that he doesn't have the same kind of "first hand" experience as Tom, but his perspective is interesting, and in some ways reflects what I was asking about before. He talks about the idea that what occurs "between incarnations" isn't actualized until we actually become conscious in our present lifetime. (you'll know what I'm talking about - if you see the video). He also brings up the Tibetan Book of the Dead, which I was hoping someone here could comment on. I ask this because the Tibetan Book of the dead describes a moment immediately after death where we have an opportunity to achieve instant "liberation" and go into the "Clear Light" of the void/consciousness, and that we are not actually "supposed" to "explore" other realms or by decieved by "heavens" and whatnot. This correlated with what Monroe talks about in terms of "belief system territories" but it also suggests that any "exploration" of any other reality systems is really a distraction from the true goal, which again- seems to be Non-Being. This Amit Goswami also seems to share this view, but I might be mistaken. Is anyone familiar with this idea of "instant liberation" or complete surrender of self at death where an individual bypasses any 'experiential realms'? Does that makes sense?

http://www.consciousmedianetwork.com/me ... oswami.htm


Cole

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:36 pm 
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Cole nice to see you here. I am a tourist myself. I have read your comments and related strongly to your position. Unfortunately I do not understand fully the answers people have given me to your questions when I have asked similar things. I have kinda given up ever thinking I will understand - however I still look but not with the same expectation. Just wanted to let you know I am in the same boat. I partcularly like your emphasis on the fact that most of the old traditions advise avoiding the astral. I often wonder if we can trust these traditional systems - due to low success rates with their followers - secrecy - money - power etc. Obviously it is best to experience directly.

Sorry I can't give you answer. Just wanted to let you know I am glad your journeying this forum temporarily. Wish you well with your dream, my friend!

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My father is wisdom and my mother is emptiness

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I am of no caste and no creed.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:00 am 
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Quote:
Obviously it is best to experience directly.
I hear it is the best way to get an actual taste of the pudding. It is interesting how old traditional belief systems are scared of letting people know for themselves and use fear to control them from doing so, what do they think will happen when we do? That must be scary, it's too bad really, that someone has to be scared no matter what. I guess it's time to change place, perhaps. That reminds me of a name of a band "Scary Kids Scaring Kids." Conscious adults scaring the scarers.
Love
Bette

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Consciousness.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:53 am 
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Cole nice to see you here. I am a tourist myself. I have read your comments and related strongly to your position. Unfortunately I do not understand fully the answers people have given me to your questions when I have asked similar things. I have kinda given up ever thinking I will understand - however I still look but not with the same expectation. Just wanted to let you know I am in the same boat. I partcularly like your emphasis on the fact that most of the old traditions advise avoiding the astral. I often wonder if we can trust these traditional systems - due to low success rates with their followers - secrecy - money - power etc. Obviously it is best to experience directly.

Sorry I can't give you answer. Just wanted to let you know I am glad your journeying this forum temporarily. Wish you well with your dream, my friend!
Yes, I noticed that we had similar questions... I also noticed that I'm banging my proverbial head against a wall by bringing this kind of thing up, as the answer I'm going to recieve has become pretty clear at this point. In all fairness, I still haven't recieved MBT, and I ordered the trilogy well over a month ago...( Amazon! :@ ... :) ) Oh well though. All will be well, and all will be well.

See my feeling... this nagging, gut wrenching feeling is that the traditional esoteric traditions emphasized "non-being" because it is the "Ultimate" in one sense. While 'Consciousness' seems fundamental, consciousness actually arises out of nothingness- therefore nothingness or non-being is actually fundamental, or shall we say- inevitable. So exploring other realities/the "larger" reality, I believe, (more so than a control device), is thought of as more of a distraction than anything- or delaying the "inevitable" - and thereby prolonging "frustration" and suffering. And in a darkly strange sort of way- my uncomfortability with this prospect leads me to believe that it just might be true. (Ego doesn't like it + Ego must be dropped = Just might be true.

Oh well. :)


Cole

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:39 pm 
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Cole

To reemphasize the "non-being" emphasized is primarily directed to against the "being" that is egoic "I - thing" dichotomy. The non-being expressed is an "emptiness" in the sense of liberating oneself from taking beliefs, expectations, assumptions, ideas, etc. as the pudding. The "Ultimate" referenced here is a slippery fish. What "Ultimate?" Ultimate in the sense of the most diminished filter of reality? Is there a perception of reality that is without any filter? Wouldn't the human sensory nervous system (both internal and external) be considered a kind of human-machine interpretation? Slippery, ain't it?

Cole: While 'Consciousness' seems fundamental, consciousness actually arises out of nothingness- therefore nothingness or non-being is actually fundamental, or shall we say- inevitable.

Here is where the semantic war begins. Often this idea of "nothingness" is associated with a state of being within the larger reality that appears as "nothingness." However it is not strictly a nothingness. No has little sense or no sense of all of a body or of as an abstracted identity as that which is created by the mind when we are not paying attention (letting thought motion) run the show of our Physical Matter Reality body, but there is something there. In MBT it's described as "Zero point consciousness," which is a much better description than sheer nothingness, or the unnameable, or the void, or the mystery, or the vastness beyond the veil, or whatever hell one chooses to call it. However there isn't really a nothingness. There is an oceanic space and YOU are there, thus consciousness IS aware of the "nothingness". And there are processes going on about you if you are able to hold your attention. Ted invokes "INDRA'S NET" which is a metaphor for what this "void"/"zero point consciousness" experience is--a kind of network. When people encounter this network and it's vastness "NOTHINGNESS" is assumed a fundamental e.g. no-, non-, etc. But What's going on here is when this network is encountered it is so drastically different from our physical and mental experience of self it becomes perceived as "no-self," "non-being," "nothing" when it is merely it is the internal mechanics of the performance "out here." Remember these spaces were first encountered by driven, artistic, poetic, individuals--even after they stopped paying attention to all their egoic parts when it came to non-physical experience they retained some assumptions non-physical, or at least the writers and preachers did.

Cole: So exploring other realities/the "larger" reality, I believe, (more so than a control device), is thought of as more of a distraction than anything- or delaying the "inevitable" - and thereby prolonging "frustration" and suffering.

Here we have "believe" which you way want to examine. Inevitability of what? Frustration and suffering very much arise from the ego's pack of buddies: expectation, belief, assumption, fear, concept, rationalization, intellect.

Ego doesn't really like anything that doesn't stroke it and that which doesn't stroke ego at all, let alone give it the time of day, is truth. Belief strokes the ego. Expectations stroke the ego. Assumptions stroke the ego. Fear, believe it or not, strokes the ego. Intellect DAMN SURE strokes the ego. None of the above is really to be trusted. BUT you really gotta ride this one out for yourself. Thinking about it won't do a damn thing except exhaust the hamster. If you aren't into non-physical experience outside of emotion, ecstasy, etc, than rock on. It's not a necessity. In fact THERE IS NO NECESSITY. Oh what mad fun in deed! There's nothing to worry about anyway. Just watch the show and watch the watcher and see what seems.

Think amore,

EE

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:34 pm 
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Wow, this is extremely interesting... I already shared a bit of this book on another thread, but you all should check this out.-

http://infinitysdoor.com/pages/DCWMHS34.html


Cole

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