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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 4:04 pm 
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Hi Ramon,

It is interesting, I look at my dreams 100% different now than I used to, also its almost like I don't dream any more, kinda hard to explain but I can have days go by that I don't remember anything after falling asleep, but when I do remember something I am lucid and functional in it, when I am in the different reality frames I have no memory of this PMR at all which I find a little weird, this has taken a little time for me to wrap my head around and when Tom says the transition from your meat suit 'I love that word, my wife cant stand it :)' to NPMR is like waking up from a dream, I am getting the feeling like that is literally what happens, you old VR frame fades rather quickly, friends, family, jobs, hobbies, pets, cares and worries just gone instantly, I don't know if the transition is like this but when I am in other places its like I don't have a memory of where I just came from, only where I am at presently. Now If I go somewhere that has my wife in it I know who she is but I still don't remember where I came from before, every thing seems to be in the present reality state only.

I am Jealous, I have been kicking myself in the butt for missing the one in Austin, I turned one of my employees on to Tom 'Danny' a couple months before the Lecture and Danny called me up wanting to know if I was going and I just had too much work to get done 'so I thought' and told him I don't think I can make I am just to busy, well a few jobs got postponed and my weekend was pretty much free then I get a call from him and hes telling me hes on a break and just listened to the first part of the lecture, I was so bummed.

Have a good weekend buddy.

Thynes


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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 4:58 pm 
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Thynes
During these dreams/tests i have been able to remember my pmr life. This usually occurs when the episodes extend beyond a certain interval of time. However, it's more like a remembering/merging effect of the frames. It's odd, not fully engaged intellectually but tom says this is done on purpose

Ok


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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 5:19 pm 
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Hi OM,

Yeah I don't know why I cant seem to remember, maybe its because I choose not to so I can soak up everything thats going on in that moment and I am the one actually putting the veil in place. I'm not sure though, other than being interesting I don't have a feeling about it at all good or bad.

Have a good weekend,

Thynes


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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 4:31 am 
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To All,

I don't know if this is pertinent to your experiences, but since I woke up remembering these experiences, I presume I am to report them and this seems to be the right thread. I have had 3 clearly premonitory experiences, some dream related. Once a feeling that I was going to be involved in a traffic accident that morning, possibly from a dream I did not clearly remember. This happened. Even though I believe I stopped in time in a multi car chain reaction, my perception was that the car just ahead bounced back into me from it's impact with the car ahead, fortunately with no injury to anyone. I'm not sure of this perception however. On the last night of a survey trip to look at problems on a boat, I dreamed that I would slip on the way to the boat before it was light to meet the schedule. In my dream, I seemed to slip on some railroad tracks that I had to cross on the way. Instead, as I carefully stepped over the tracks, I slipped on some clay and landed on my seat without injury other than the clay on my pants. Fortunately, it was the last day and I had my luggage with me to leave from the boat later so I could change. Another time, I had to climb down some steps and had a premonition of falling if I did so. I was delayed going out of the door for some reason for several minutes and forgot the premonition and that I had decided to take another way out. When I stepped backwards onto the top step, which was some way down, I did slip on the step, fell on my back landing across the step which broke and somewhat cushioned my fall. I was in pain for a few days, but not seriously injured.

Constant communication is available if we can 'hear' it. For years, I don't remember dreams at all unless they are significant, intended to be remembered, and they then tend to be lucid. Otherwise my consciousness is elsewhere and any experience, dream or otherwise and 'wherever' it may be, does not enter my PMR consciousness stream. Since I am aware now of the nature of reality as Consciousness Space, I do not need these inputs any more. As a virtual reality with your conscious awareness generated by the VRRE function of TBC, any and all of these kinds of things are possible. There are many reasons for the varied inputs, including just to let you know that this is possible in this virtual reality as part of Consciousness Space. To demonstrate the nature of this reality as a virtual reality. It is all consciousness space with only the simulation of physicality and objectivity as your individual perceptions are generated and fed into your mind for this purpose. It is a virtual reality, generated within your mind and based upon an individually prepared data stream to create your perceptions of out there and even your internal bodily perceptions. This includes your stream of conscious thoughts which I have also experienced as being changed over night and radically in the past. Why any of this specifically happens is an individual situation as determined by what is most helpful for you by your guides, which as Tom has said, may not be the specific being(s) that you are led to believe but the 'system'. And the person standing next to you can have significant differences within their perceptions from what you perceive, besides the slight change of perspective because of the physical separation.

As we all exist within Consciousness Space as IUOC, individuated beings, our perceptions arise within our minds based at all times upon an input data stream prepared specifically for this purpose. Our perceptions may be of a virtual reality such as PMR or NPMR, time shared perceptions of a VR within our mind that tend to be isolated from each other, or can be deliberate accesses to other VRs from our 'native' VR, where our primary consciousness is fixed at that moment, for some purpose based on our intent at that moment. And all of our perceptions are subjective and dependent upon our previous history and understanding for interpretation. This is the reason that so many things are hard to understand by discussion amongst us as our experiences and their purposes are so different from being to being. So much interpretation of meanings are necessarily individual and not necessarily pertinent to each others experience.

I have edited this to add something of an even longer range premonition. When I was in college, I had the thought that I might want to broaden my possibilities and took a course on oceanography/undersea geology and I vaguely remember dreaming before doing so that I might be involved with boats at some time, leading to taking this course. Thirty five years or so later, I did go to work for a naval architect designing mechanical systems on boats. The general information on oceanography did in fact come to be of use in a limited way.

Ted


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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 5:19 am 
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Thynes,

When you mentioned transitioning from your "meat suit" to NPMR is like waking from a dream it reminded me of this passage from Alan Watts' 'Philosophies of Asia'.

"There is a story about a great sage, Narada, who came to Vishnu. Vishnu is one of the aspects of the godhead, Brahma. Brahma is usually the word given to the creator aspect, Vishnu to the preserving aspect, and Shiva to the destructive aspect. When Narada came to Vishnu and said, "What is the secret of your maya?" Vishnu took him and threw him into a pool. The moment he fell under the water he was born as a princess in a very great family, and went through all the experiences of childhood as a little girl. She finally married a prince from another kingdom and went to live with him in his kingdom. They lived there in tremendous prosperity, with palaces and peacocks, but suddenly there was a war and their kingdom was attacked and utterly destroyed. The prince himself was killed in battle, and he was cremated. As a dutiful wife, the princess was about to throw herself weeping on to the funeral pyre and burn herself in an act of suttee or self-sacrifice. But suddenly Narada woke to find himself being pulled out of the pool by his hair by Vishnu, who said, "For whom were you weeping?" So, that is the idea of the whole world being a magical illusion, but done so skillfully - by whom? By you, basically. Not "you" the empirical ego, not "you" who is just a kind of focus of conscious attention with memories that are strung together into what you call "my everyday self." Rather, it is the "you" that is responsible for growing your hair, coloring your eyes, arranging the shape of your bones. The deeply responsible "you" is what is responsible for all this." http://pratyeka.org/philosophies-of-asia/

I'm sure most of us have had dreams that left us emotionally shaken upon waking but they fade as we resume our normal everyday duties. I guess it's the same way when we transition to NPMR.

Ramon


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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 8:17 am 
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Hi Ted,

That was a great read, what you wrote deepened my thinking and understanding about some of my current thoughts and experiences.

Thank you, have a good weekend.

Thynes


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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 11:19 am 
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Quote:
Constant communication is available if we can 'hear' it. For years, I don't remember dreams at all unless they are significant, intended to be remembered, and they then tend to be lucid. Otherwise my consciousness is elsewhere and any experience, dream or otherwise and 'wherever' it may be, does not enter my PMR consciousness stream. Since I am aware now of the nature of reality as Consciousness Space, I do not need these inputs any more. As a virtual reality with your conscious awareness generated by the VRRE function of TBC, any and all of these kinds of things are possible. There are many reasons for the varied inputs, including just to let you know that this is possible in this virtual reality as part of Consciousness Space. To demonstrate the nature of this reality as a virtual reality. It is all consciousness space with only the simulation of physicality and objectivity as your individual perceptions are generated and fed into your mind for this purpose. It is a virtual reality, generated within your mind and based upon an individually prepared data stream to create your perceptions of out there and even your internal bodily perceptions. This includes your stream of conscious thoughts which I have also experienced as being changed over night and radically in the past. Why any of this specifically happens is an individual situation as determined by what is most helpful for you by your guides, which as Tom has said, may not be the specific being(s) that you are led to believe but the 'system'. And the person standing next to you can have significant differences within their perceptions from what you perceive, besides the slight change of perspective because of the physical separation.
Ted, please could you explain to me in more details about this part. It seems to me I can understand it, but it feels like I have a thick veil or partition in front of me, which prevents to get it or to see clear enough. I even cannot explain what I feel. Thank you.

Lena

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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 12:38 pm 
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Lena,

I probably wrote of too many things and in too shorthand a manner. You will probably have to ask more specific questions, but for now, I will expand as follows.

By constant communication, I mean feedback from the system/guides/whatever that you have to look for and expect. Whatever you can understand as meaningful communications, including a voice in your 'head' or a visual input is possible. Reading omens and signs like the ancients or shamans can be real. Things that no one else would note as significant can be, if you and those helping you decide to make it so. You just have to learn to 'hear' or 'see' what is significant. Tom has written about instant feedback. This can be a negative result from an action or just a 'message'. All very individualized. I recommend against the ancient practice of reading the entrails of sacrificial animals however. Carlos Castaneda also attributed 'seeing' as a concept to Don Juan Matus who would apparently receive visual inputs to provide information to him when required. Carlos Castaneda has been criticized as a faker, but much of what he wrote is clearly possible to me and some even within my experience.

My stream of consciousness or internal dialogue was greatly reduced some years ago and I have written about this and mentioned Suzanne Segal, who you can find on an Internet search, in posts before. What you are aware of, what is incoming on your input stream creating PMR as a VR within your mind can be instantly changed in this way. You can go from excessive thinking and rethinking to making all your decisions without conscious thought in an instant. In Suzanne Segal's case, she lost her sense of even being and was very frightened. You can go from OCD to constant surprise, until you become accustomed to it, that you continue to say and do the right thing to fit your role in PMR. In my case, I did not have signs of OCD since childhood when I spent too much time rethinking things said and done until I stopped it by repeated choices to do so until it finally stopped. I have experienced many things that go into my eventual understanding of how a VR works. I may be tested in dreams I do not remember as so many others mention, but this is apparently handled unconsciously now. I have learned to operate from information that I know when I need it for a purpose and not before. Your consciousness, in whatever VR it is functioning at a given instant, is one thing. Your memories/past history and choice making apparatus are another. How much comes into your conscious awareness can be varied as it is believed to be appropriate. You can have an input into this decision that will be honored if you are persistent and have a clear intent.

There are links to posts on virtual realities and how they work in the third section of the forums regarding a sort of reference section that needs help for completion. Look there for references if that is part of your question and ask again if you don't find what you are looking for. Then of course, MBT is the primary reference. You will have to ask more explicit questions for me to go any further. But you are welcome to ask. If I don't have an answer, Tom will.

Ted


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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 4:42 pm 
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Thank you, Ted, for a very good explanation. Sometimes my mind works like a colander. Unfortunately in a case like that a good stuff skips through the holes more often than not. May be I should learn the ancient practice of reading the entrails of sacrificial animal, and this way its smell will keep me alert all the time.

Lena

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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 9:44 am 
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OK here is one more thing I am confused by:

When I am getting images and messages in my head its almost like I am in a parallel processing mode where I am perceiving these things with a fraction of my awareness lets say 50% 'I don't know if that is a correct %' then I notice hey I want to focus and pay attention to what he/they are saying and what I am seeing, I get what they are saying but its something like a day dream, If I try and focus my attention to what I am experiencing I loose it, it just starts fading away and the harder I try to keep it the faster it goes.

Tom, is there something I can work on to focus in on this without it disappearing.

Thynes


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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 1:57 pm 
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Quote:
the harder I try to keep it the faster it goes.
Isn't this your answer thynes?
Love
Bette

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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 3:07 pm 
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Hi Bette,

I have to agree with you on that, this is something that I have noticed. But on the onset of noticing something interesting is going on in the other part of my awareness the switch over starts automatically, like a instant grabbing of my attention. Its hard to explain this feeling when this happens but then 'this is the best way I can describe it' the image turns into a detailed image made of smoke and there is a breeze that you don't see that is slowly blowing away the smoke. This happens as soon as my total awareness shifts to whats going on whether I try hard to keep it or not, when I have tried to keep it going it just goes all that faster.

Thanks for the reply.

Thynes


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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 5:19 pm 
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You are welcome Thynes.
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Bette

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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 9:51 pm 
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Thynes,

To your question: Was that you in the classroom? The answer is yes and no. Don't take what you experience too literally. The classroom is a metaphor that characterizes how our existence overlaps -- interaction within consciousness. The classroom is an interpretation, the shadow of something more fundamental projected on the screen of your awareness. Look to the relationship rather than to the set in which the interaction takes place.

You are correct. Changing reality frames is like changing dreams -- as one becomes clearer, the other fades. Parallel processing in two or more reality frames is like having several simultaneous dreams. To be aware in a dream, to own or command the dream (not just the action in the dream but the dream itself), you must operate from the being level, not from the intellect. As soon as you let your analyzing intellect step in front of your experience at the being level, you the multidimensional being who naturally experiences the larger reality from the perspective of wholeness, begins to focus through that intellect into an exclusive relationship with a specific VR. The multidimensional you operates (is animated, motivated, or makes choices) by expressing an intent that flows without being directed from its internal core. Such choices are a perfect, effortless reflection of that core (no ego, no fear). The unidimensional (single VR) you, operates (is animated, motivated, or makes choices) by thinking (mentally manipulating and calculating and comparing relative to the wants, needs and desires of self) and doing (as opposed to being), by analyzing, and applying his intellect (the servant of the ego) to whatever is the object of his desire.

When you permit your intellect to direct your being to serve wants, all but the VR that is the focus of the intellect turns to smoke as multidimensional awareness collapses to the focus of the intellect. Meditation is no more than a tool to help you control the intellect and thus enable you to find and integrate with the core of your being. Ego and fear calls the tune to which the intellect dances and thus must be eliminated to free the core of your being (your individuated unit of consciousness) from the prison generated by the narrow, limiting focus and preoccupation with self that defines an operative intellect.

Tom C


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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 11:49 pm 
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Tom, is PMR all ego? I consider meditation learning to ignore all this (waving hands around) which is where the question is from.
Love
Bette

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