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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 11:38 pm 
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Bette,

PMR is not all fear and ego. it is a place where those with lots of fear and ego come to learn how to get rid of some of it. There is also lots of love in PMR, though more would be better.

Tom C


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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 11:43 pm 
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Thank you Tom, as always.
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Bette

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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 10:08 am 
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Thank you Tom,

Its good to know I have been doing it bass akwards :) , there is no telling how long I would have been stuck trying and retrying to do it the same way. So what I am feeling now is I am on the first grain of sand on an endless beach of knowledge.

On a different subject I think I have noticed something and would like your reply when you can get to it, Does placing intent manifest itself as a physical feeling and if so where does the feeling originate from ' where on your body would you feel it?

Thanks again Tom and have a great day.

Thynes


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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 7:57 am 
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Quote:
On a different subject I think I have noticed something and would like your reply when you can get to it, Does placing intent manifest itself as a physical feeling and if so where does the feeling originate from ' where on your body would you feel it?

Thanks again Tom and have a great day.

Thynes
While not wanting to pre-empt a reply from Tom, thynes, my six penn'orth, for what it's worth, is that my intent, and any form of connection with the greater consciousness/NPMR, seems to manifest as a physical sensation of strong tingling in spine/neck and head, sometimes also the thighs. I may be completely incorrect in the assumption that this is any sort of indicator at all, but have read on here that some others also have similar experiences. It coincides so regularly with my practices that I've come to regard it as a feedback device, which, if true, is very helpful to me in making progress, by enabling me to devise "short-cut" mental techniques, and test them by how well the feedback sensation is achieved. It may be, of course, that I am deceiving myself in this by creating a self-satisfying loop, but I'm inclined to think that's not the case.

Arthur

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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 9:04 am 
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Hi Arthur,

That's good to hear the feelings you get while placing intent, thank you for the info, the feeling I get is on the top of my head but extending pass the top of the skull by maybe a few inches upwards. Maybe everyone experiences them a little differently.

Now I get a completely different feeling when my awareness starts switching to NPMR, I start to get a high pitch ringing sound in the left side of my head and some times through the whole head, If I am talking to someone or playing a video game, reading a book, I either don't have it or don't notice it but as soon as my mind quiets down it starts and has been with me for several months. I can go out side and just watch a insect crawling on the ground and it start to appear, as soon as I close my mind to meditate it appears almost instantly, as soon as I start working with parallel processing it starts.
There may be more or less to this but I know I have a greater connection to NPMR when the pitch starts.

Have a great day.

Thynes


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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 11:35 am 
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Quote:
Bette,

PMR is not all fear and ego. it is a place where those with lots of fear and ego come to learn how to get rid of some of it. There is also lots of love in PMR, though more would be better.

Tom C
Tom,

Just wanted to ask- I've noticed that there is a theme amongst 'awakened' individuals regarding "ego". At first, I thought- hmm, maybe it's mere poetry, but I thought I'd get your take on it. Many talk about how, when the 'ego' is seen for what it is, it proves to have "never existed at all." Or that if we try to "drop" to ego- then that very urge "to drop" becomes a subtle ego, that's even harder to recognize. Does that make sense? I googled ego, just so I could give you an example of what I'm talking about:
Quote:
And remember, there is no need to drop the ego.

You cannot drop it.

If you try to drop it, you will attain to a certain subtle ego again which says, "I have become humble."

Don't try to be humble. That's again ego in hiding - but it's not dead.

Don't try to be humble.

Nobody can try humility, and nobody can create humility through any effort of his own - no. When the ego is no more, a humbleness comes to you. It is not a creation. It is a shadow of the real center.

It is so subtle. Its ways are so subtle and cunning; you have to be very, very alert, only then will you see it. Don't try to be humble. Just try to see that all misery, all anguish comes through it.

Just watch! No need to drop it.

You cannot drop it. Who will drop it? Then the DROPPER will become the ego. It always comes back.

Whatsoever you do, stand out of it, and look and watch.

Whatsoever you do - humbleness, humility, simplicity - nothing will help. Only one thing is possible, and that is just to watch and see that it is the source of all misery. Don't say it. Don't repeat it - WATCH. Because if I say it is the source of all misery and you repeat it, then it is useless. YOU have to come to that understanding. Whenever you are miserable, just close the eyes and don't try to find some cause outside. Try to see from where this misery is coming.
Also, your post brought another point to mind. You implied that 'ego' is something we come in (to PMR) with; but isn't our ego largely a product of our early infancy/childhood and our need for security/attention etc.? I remember you saying in an email that "PMR sentimentality dies along with the body" - how is it that the ego is able to 'survive' this transition, if something like (presumably 'childish') sentimentality is vanquished?
Quote:
The first thing to be understood is what ego is. A child is born. A child is born without any knowledge, any consciousness of his own self. And when a child is born the first thing he becomes aware of is not himself; the first thing he becomes aware of is the other. It is natural, because the eyes open outwards, the hands touch others, the ears listen to others, the tongue tastes food and the nose smells the outside. All these senses open outwards.

That is what birth means. Birth means coming into this world, the world of the outside. So when a child is born, he is born into this world. He opens his eyes, sees others. 'Other' means the thou. He becomes aware of the mother first. Then, by and by, he becomes aware of his own body. That too is the other, that too belongs to the world. He is hungry and he feels the body; his need is satisfied, he forgets the body.

This is how a child grows. First he becomes aware of you, thou, other, and then by and by, in contrast to you, thou, he becomes aware of himself.

This awareness is a reflected awareness. He is not aware of who he is. He is simply aware of the mother and what she thinks about him. If she smiles, if she appreciates the child, if she says, "You are beautiful," if she hugs and kisses him, the child feels good about himself. Now an ego is born.
Cole

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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 12:37 pm 
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That's sweet Cole, but when a baby is born the experience is all falling and suddenly being in the open physical with all the sensory modalities activated. Science has "discovered" that baby's are born with two innate fears, that of falling and loud noises. Both are explained by the birth and the sudden full access to PMR sounds that is scary. Who are you quoting, bty?
Love
Bette

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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 1:11 pm 
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Quote:
That's sweet Cole, but when a baby is born the experience is all falling and suddenly being in the open physical with all the sensory modalities activated. Science has "discovered" that baby's are born with two innate fears, that of falling and loud noises. Both are explained by the birth and the sudden full access to PMR sounds that is scary. Who are you quoting, bty?
Love
Bette
I believe it was Osho - which incidently was pure coincidence (not looking for "OSHO" specificially), as I was just searching for a typical discussion on ego--> as it pertains to "dropping" or "observing" etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 2:10 pm 
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Yes, co-incidence. ;)
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Bette

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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 2:24 pm 
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Yes, co-incidence. ;)
Love
Bette

Haha... Indeed ;)


Cole

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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 10:43 pm 
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Thynes,

The physical sensations (if they are not physically based like ear damage that you only notice when your mind is still and quiet) created by altered states will come and go. They are not fundamental. They are interpretations of consciousness states in terms of physical perceptions, symbols or sign posts, that you erect as feedback. The 4 Hz pulsation or vibration state may be the exception to that rule -- that vibration can be measured physically. However, experiencing that vibration, though common, is not absolutely necessary to anything.

Cole: ".. when the 'ego' is seen for what it is, it proves to have "never existed at all."

Tom: That is nonsense. What your quotes are trying to get across is that rooting out your ego with your intellect is futile, not that the ego does not exist or cannot be gotten rid of. The intellect is the tool of the ego. You cannot make yourself egoless by doing or thinking anything -- it is entirely a matter of being differently. When he says "there is no need to drop ego" he means there is no need to try to drop ego -- to work at it -- to force it away with intellectual effort or doing. He is trying to be dramatic and get attention by being surprising and contrary (a device many speakers use) and you are taking it too literally.


"A child is born without any knowledge, any consciousness of his own self."
That is also nonsense. A child has a sense of self as a being before it is born -- so does a puppy. A child comes in with a consciousness that has potential based on what has gone before in past experience packets -- it just cannot express or process any of that physically but it can readily communicate and is self aware at the feeling/emotional level, very dimly aware at the intellectual level, while its higher self can communicate easily at the intellectual level. A child has much knowledge before it is born and when it is born. It learns much about its parents and their energy while in the womb - bonding with both, especially the mother, takes place during the last three or four months or so before birth. It is not difficult for the parents to communicate (primarily in a feeling and emotional nonverbal space) with their unborn child but there is some smaller nonverbal intellectual awareness component to it as well).

Jeeze, it is amazing how people become experts in areas in which they have no experience. Do you want to know exactly how to best raise children - ask someone who has never had one - they will tell you with no uncertainty exactly what you have to do to get a child to be a certain way. If you want to know about specific two way communication with babies who demonstrate individual and unique personalities before or after they are born, ask a loving mother who relates strongly to her baby (almost all mothers).

Tom C


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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 10:24 am 
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Tom,

When an IUOC comes into the world, it has no ego. It brings its essence (experience packets) with it. The Ego(personality) is built based on your surrounding culture, parents and other variables etc that interact with it(your building personality) as it grows. This also meshes with your experience packet(Essence) and creates what we got here now at this moment. How much of your esence coming forth depends on how thick the Personality/Ego Crust becomes.

So getting rid of Ego means kind of getting rid of personality or lessening personality since we do need it but not to allow it any power and thus resulting in getting rid of self importance/Ego.

DO I have a proper understanding of this?

OM


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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 11:11 am 
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When an IUOC comes into the world, it has no ego.
I do not believe that this premise is correct which would change everything after it if true. I could be wrong though.
Love
Bette

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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 12:58 pm 
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This is why we ask questions. I am trying to have a better understanding. : )


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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 1:34 pm 
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Exactly OM. I look forward to seeing what someone who knows will answer here.
Love
Bette

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All That Is
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Consciousness.


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