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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:02 pm 
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Hey there Tom,

I wanted to ask you about something of Seth's that I came across today regarding ego and chemicals. I'm sure that the definition of 'ego' Seth is operating within is different than how you're defining it, but nonetheless, Seth's ideas on this is interesting, because I have personally had an experience like this, and I wanted to get your feedback on this:
Quote:
In therapy using massive doses of LSD, a condition of chemically enforced insanity takes place. By insanity, I mean a situation in which the conscious mind is forced into a state of powerlessness. There is a literal assault made not only upon the psyche, but upon the organizational framework that makes it possible for you to exist rationally in the world that you know. The ego, of course, cannot be annihilated in physical life. Kill one and another will, and must, emerge from the inner self which is its source.
This is interesting enough, but one more:
Quote:
Under LSD you are highly suggestible. If you are told that the ego must die then you will kill it. You will telepathically follow the ideas of your guide under even the best of conditions. (Long pause.) The psychic "rebirth" may leave you with a completely new set of problems, rising on the bed of the old and as yet undecipherable.

The new ego is quite aware of the conditions of its birth. It knows it was born out of the death of its predecessor, and for all its feelings of transcendent joy, natural enough at its birth, it fears that annihilation from which it sprang.
Though I've never had a "massive dose" of LSD by ANY means (tried a very, very small amount, and threw it up), I did experience what I feel now was something similar to this when I expiremented with magic mushrooms... Any thoughts on this would be much appreciated, or any interpretations that come to mind.

Thanks,

Cole

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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:24 pm 
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I have an analogy to offer. Think of the popular notion of a psychic third eye that sees shadowy glimpses of NPMR from time to time. No harm done, it just piques the curiosity and stirs the imagination.

My experience with LSD when I was young was like taping that third eye open and an useen someone poking a sharp stick at it. No fun and no learning, except to stay away from psychoactive drugs. Meditation is much better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick, eh?

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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:46 pm 
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Cole,

I don't see much to comment on. Seth is saying that drug experiences cannot eliminate ego because the ego is organic to the being. That is obviously true. The only way to eliminate ego is for the being to out grow it. Drug experiences are mostly useless and are more likely than not to leave the person worse off for the experience (though this is not always the case).

Tom C


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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:24 am 
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Great thread, especially rich earlier posts!

Oughta be on Auto-bump!


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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:53 am 
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Montana,

Wow this brings back some memories, it's been awhile since I looked at this thread.
One thing I did notice right off the bat in Tom's explanation for my test was this.

Only in hindsight will you make the connection between where you are going to end up and your present training program. You will never know what or why until much later.

So ok, Tom always explains things from the bigger picture even time, he says 1 year is but a blink of an eye in NPMR so how much time do you think much later calculates out to be :)))))

thynes


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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:43 am 
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Quote:
Montana,

Only in hindsight will you make the connection between where you are going to end up and your present training program. You will never know what or why until much later.

thynes

This recalls to mind an idea that I've meant to float here several times but don't think I ever recalled it while at the board. It is a combination of two ideas... that of "consciousness of" and the idea of a moving average.

Digression / For those unfamiliar with the idea of a moving average, the term gets used a lot in relation to stock price. For the 'trailing 12 months' this would be the average closing price on each of the days that stock was traded over the last year. In the olden days you might have reviewed your stocks quarterly, and the trailing 12 months average was, at least theoretically, a sensible approach. But if you are a day-trader, you might be looking at the trailing 3 hours. Structures found at any of the levels seems to be fractally related (in that they are similar), and various structures seem to be predictive (head and shoulders curves, double bottoms, etc) / digression

Then, the larger or longer the moving average of consciousness, the bigger the picture it seems to circumscribe .... the shorter the moving average (assuming the same data density 'per glance') the greater the detail.

That is the departing notion.... some possible directions are:

* For any given application, there is probably 'best workable focus' (that is, in terms of moving average of data points to be presently considered) of consciousness. Since there are so many forms of data streams, instantly this question expands to a whole set of questions.

* Presumably, a more sophisticated form of consciousness would oscillate across several different moving-average rates. Ideal, this would occur at a frequency that exceeded all the rates of the various data floes.

* The share-price metaphor suggest a variety of other questions to consider, but there are a variety of moving-average applications that may suggest other ideas as well.

So </jumps out of now-returned-to-earth spaceship> thynes, your statement there brought to mind that a larger, or more backed of view, may or may not help to put things into perspective. I don't mean that as advice... rather, I am trying to puzzle something out for myself, 'out-loud', so to speak. Sometimes sharing this modeling debris is useful to others.

Montana


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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:15 am 
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It seems the topic has become diverted a bit, therefore I might even be a little off-topic by being on-topic. ;-) Anyway, since this thread got pushed up due to new posts and so fell into my sight today, here's my input and experience on retrievals:

Previously, I had a lot of dreams that would fall into the category of retrieval (or helper) experiences. Some (if not all) might even have been training sessions for this kind of 'job'.

Recently, I had a more lucid experience. It might still have been a simulation / test as I don't know (as of today) if the person concerned really passed over or not. Indeed, I know from an old friend of mine that this person was and is 'in trouble' (especially health) all the time.

Under this quote, there's also a longer version of it with some comments and background added to the post. But I copy the text of the 'retrieval (test)' here the way it was written back then in January:

When the chance came, I rolled out of bed and noticed I was in my lower childhood room then (I had moved as a child to and fro between these two rooms.). Almost in passing only, I noted a guy squatting and leaning against the wall, looking at me (expectantly or interested), but I ignored him as I do often with persons when I am too 'focussed on target'. However, I knew that he was a guy who was in the same school and neighbourhood as me when I was a child. I think I never knew his name, so let's call him Mr. X.

Anyway, I flew through the window and was standing in the garden on a sunny day. I asked to see a guide, but none appeared. Then I rememberd „retrieval“, so I closed my (astral) eyes to cause a blackout and in order to teleport to a scene where I can retrieve / help s.o. Funnily, I even counted down from 3 to zero. I 'opened' the eyes again. The scene was unchanged, still the garden on a sunny day. But one thing was changed:

Ronald (not real name) was standing there ca. 5 metres away from me on the lawn, a thinner version compared to the appearance I know, looking and maybe (iirc) even smiling at me.

Info: Ronald is a childhood/teenager buddy I had for a while in a kind of 'gang' of other buddies. Another one of them, by the way, was Johnny Smith (not real name). As with John, I hadn't seem him for over 15-20 years. Since I am (so far only per e-mail) in touch with John he told me about him.
Ronald, now as then, always lived in precarious circumstances, being a society outsider, obese, poor, living on social welfare and by occasional jobs. Today, so John told me, he lives on a private construction site in a construction trailer that was given mercifully to him by John's brother who owns the site, so he's (still) an (almost) derelict. John also told me recently that he lost weight (hence I saw a thinner version?) due to serious chronic illness(es), which I did not ask then more about.

His appearance on the lawn lasted only for about a moment as I immediately said "Okay", assuming that he is the one who needs help somehow. Then, instantly, the scene indeed changed and I was teleported into a familiar city centre street of my childhood hometown. Ronald was still there on the same sidewalk as me, and again about 5 metres off. This time, though, he looked different and more familiar to me: He was thicker now, but also looked sick, confused and even delirious. We saw and walked towards each other. I asked him what's wrong with him. He told me (in a babbling and uncontrolled way) that s.o. or sth disturbed him so much. He seemed sweaty and had glassy eyes, looked disturbed, distracted and delirious.

Remembering the known 'pattern of retrieval' and also knowing I might not have a lot of time before fading out again, I looked around immediately while I told him that I would show him s.o. who could help him really well. I held him at one of his arms (so he wouldn't fall over or run away) and started looking around at the people walking by.

I said to him that „the helper must be near-by“. Then I ask one guy passing us by directly: „It's you, right?“ The answer comes not directly, as he does not talk to me at all, but just by his action. The man joins us.

And here's the sensation: It's the guy that was squatting and leaning against the wall in my portal before. It's Mr X. !!! And yes, I remembered that he might also have been a friend or at least an acquaintance of Ronald back then in our childhood days!

So then we three were standing there. Mr X, was then holding on to Ronald by putting one arm around him and looking at him in a very reassuring, caring, even loving way (PUL?). This is remarkable and I believe that the memory of this moment and his treatment of poor Ronald might stick with me for good.

Mr X. then took Ronald with him as they walk up the street, I (following the retrieval pattern) let them go. Before that I again had patted Ronald a last time on the arm saying sth along the lines that he'll be fine, taken care of and should not worry. So I watched them walk off on that sidewalk of that familiar city center street (in the direction which is slightly uphill, btw.).


http://www.astraldynamics.com.au/showth ... post107565

It's an experience I like to remember. I so far did not manage to repeat the pattern. Also due to other priorities I had (e.g. past life research).

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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:53 am 
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Montana,

All I can say is I am truly amazed at how a Woman’s brain works, the processing power and multitude of things it connects, processes and works out at the same time ‘parallel processing :)’ is truly amazing. By the time I notice I have food on my shirt my wife has already mapped out a month’s worth of future events :) , I would say for me it is in the same ballpark as trying to understand the bigger picture of reality.




Volgerle,

That was very interesting and detailed, I got a flash of Bruce Mowen as I was reading, maybe it was just from a PUL reference? I had 1 night with what seemed like 3 retrieval experiences right about 3 years ago to this date and not a one since then. Also with stuff like OBE I had a couple right about the same time and none since then. It seems I was given just to experience but I don’t get to keep, play and learn with the ability. It is almost like you get thrown a whirlwind of different experiences to get a feel for where you’re at.

thynes


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