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 Post subject: drug abuse
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 12:03 pm 
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having lived through years of almost daily use of marijuana, weekly alcohol binging and partying on ampethamines, lsd and mushrooms i have finally made the decision to give those vices up in order to have more stability and balance in my personal groth. i have been going spurts without it the last few months but always came back to them...always feeling like shit after using them and having a feeling of them holding me back. i dont condone those substances in any way i know that i am myself responsible for my growth and those are just external vices that reflect the quality of my consciousness.
my questions are the following:

does anyone have experience in quitting drugs after heavy use for the sake of spiritual and personal development ? if so, how did it effect you and your growth ?

ive seen a video were tom said something like that people who used drugs tend to need longer for development without them than people that havent been using them at all..now a part of me is like..damm did i screw it up already ? im still going through with it but maybe someone who made that transition can shed some light on how the stop of use has effected his or her growth and how long they felt hindered by their past abuse after stopping ?


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 Post subject: Re: drug abuse
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 7:12 pm 
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It's not about being hindered by your past. It is about learning from your past and making better decisions, with better Intent, for the future.

I did stop all sugar, caffeine, alcohol, etc. for about a year. I had a very clear consciousness and my link to the Larger Consciousness System was much better. Unfortunately, I have relapsed from that but plan to go back to it after the Holidays.

Any substance that you use causes an additional filter by which you access your data stream. Keep working on getting clean. Self pity for past lapses is coming from your ego. It is a way to protect, and thwart yourself, from moving forward. Find out what triggers your relapses and then change your behavior so that you aren't around those triggers. You have to want to quit from your being level, and not just because of some societal pressure. Otherwise you will never quit. YOU have to want something different. And then make the decisions with the right Intent to change your behavior.


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 Post subject: Re: drug abuse
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:27 am 
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thanks ! i find this encouraging..it won`t be easy because my surroundings rather have drug use as its norm so societal pressure to consume is actually much stronger than the pressure to stop but I`ll do my best to move into the right direction steadily


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 Post subject: Re: drug abuse
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:31 am 
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It is my understanding that drug uses of all kinds have their negative effects via the PMR rule set. That can impede your spiritual development but it will not stop it after you end the drug usage. You can still keep from having this incarnation be a step backwards in QOC by making the change, reversing your course. It is my understanding that Tom would agree with this also.

Ted


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 Post subject: Re: drug abuse
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:42 am 
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Conversely, its fair to say that ceremonial use of psychotropic compounds in ancient cultures is accepted and well known...
  • Ayahuasca is a well known one, without referring to additional ones cited in "The Teachings of Don Juan"...
These traditional mixtures are not used simply to induce a high, but to expand awareness in to a higher level of data-stream perception which is not normally encountered in daily PMR life. If the message of such an encounter sinks in, then there is an almost immediate appreciation that reality itself is larger than what we perceive it to be.

But there is a difference between substance abuse and the seeking of higher awareness. It comes down to your intent. While society does frown on the immediate perceived negative effects of drug use, we can't unilaterally state that "Drug use is bad", however it's "Abuse" certainly has lasting effects. Point is, there may be a positive outcome to their exposure and not their abuse...

For countless people spanning across centuries, exposure to these kinds of psychotropic compounds, even a single dose, has been enough to change their lives forever, like a kick-start to spiritual development. There is actually a booming tourist trade for the Ayahuasca experience. It has given them an experience of NPMR, which may make them realise that there is more to this than just them. For some, it may also leave the door slightly open for future NPMR encounters without the influence of any drugs at all.

I'm not for one moment advocating the use of drugs for expanded awareness... Many people can't handle them, end up schizophrenics or even commit suicide. Everyone is uniquely bound by their own PMR constraints which include responses to drugs. Some people read journals on Quantum Mechanics to convince themselves there's more to reality than meets the eye, while others may need a hard kick in the backside through an Ayahuasca ride...

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 Post subject: Re: drug abuse
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:26 am 
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Martin,

I read, and might say studied, Carlos Castaneda's books and was always fascinated by his stories of the results of taking the various drugs mentioned. But never enough to try and find a source and do it myself. I suspect that there were/are powerful shamans among the indigenous people of Australia, based on what little I have seen and read, and with their own pharmacopeia of psychedelic drugs. Tom just maintains that these aids are not really necessary to 'advancement' and place a limit on what can be ultimately achieved in a given lifetime.

No one else here has stepped forward and claimed to have experienced Indra's Net, which fully supports Tom Campbell's model of reality besides myself, although there are certain to be many in the world who have done so and just are not in a position to come on this board. I certainly did not get there by taking this kind of aid to kickstarting awareness so I am perfectly willing to endorse Tom's statements regarding the undesirability of drug use.

But one aspect of our individual existence as an IUOC and our experience of VR avatars is that we are each and individually separate experiments by AUM of a unique and individual path of development. So with the long history of shamanic development around the world along their widely varied paths and insights and localized access to herbal and other psychedelic sources, their use cannot be condemned as part of this variation of approach. Remember that Tom Campbell has referred to AUM as the 'chief scientist' and that each System and ever VR is a unique experiment. But in addition, we must remain within American parochial legal requirements in addition to Tom's personal experience that such drugs can delay development and understanding.

Ted


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 Post subject: Re: drug abuse
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:44 pm 
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yeah the description of the mixture of substances and especially how and with which intent they are used in carlos castanedas books are very fascinating. i´ve actually been learning with a shaman here in austria and she was telling me to stay away from any mind altering substance as this would lead to unsureness about the realness and originating from my experiences..i have had kind of visions and discussions with entities by going the shamanic way without using those substances. my teacher thought that the use of ayuhasca and so on is a cultural thing that belongs to the respective shamans and that she doesnt use them to ensure safety and because she found it unfitting in our western world.
thanks to everyone for sharing your thoughts and opinions. i think the only way i´d think about using again would be in a safe environment by myself were i look at what the consume of a small dose of psychedelics does with my meditation experience. i´ve thought about the intent with which substances are consumed, and i kinda believe that the most malicious part is probably when u take them just to have a laugh, to have halucinations or as escapism.


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 Post subject: Re: drug abuse
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 12:46 am 
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Thanks Ted,

The vast majority of people who suspect a larger reality never need to be exposed to drugs, nor did I suggest that their use "shall" open up the NPMR can for them. They are not necessary. Everyone is bound by degrees of freedom unique to their own PMR Avatar. Immediate insanity could be the result of a single exposure. We just don't know. But in the true spirit of the PMR learning lab, there is nothing which contraindicates their use at any level, be it abuse, recreational, boredom, spiritual discovery or total abstinence apart from how we want to evolve our own IUOC.
Quote:
No one else here has stepped forward and claimed to have experienced Indra's Net, which fully supports Tom Campbell's model of reality besides myself, although there are certain to be many in the world who have done so and just are not in a position to come on this board.
Well perhaps they don't need to? I'm sure you'll recall the quote from Don Juan "Those who talk, don't know. Those who know, don't talk." I've personally had so many strange things happen that I simply stopped discussing them anymore unless someone asks me or I have questions to post on this board...

Additionally and from my personal experience, our encounters within NPMR are colored by our expectations. We will not all experience the same things and only a minority will share concrete similarities of the experiential content itself (not necessarily the mechanisms).

I try to reserve judgement on those who choose to consume illicit substances. Its their choice and this is a view I take completely independent of any legal restrictions in place. A number of good friends from school many years ago used to smoke marijuana on a daily basis. A good family friend had personal crises and was a heavy ecstasy and methamphetamine user. He is now an outstanding IT developer starting his own business. My only concern regarding substance use is how it affects those around the user, but the user makes their own decisions.
Quote:
in addition to Tom's personal experience that such drugs can delay development and understanding.
This is true. They certainly can if the message the associated NPMR experiences they invoke are not absorbed. Equally however, they have the potential to kick-start it by spurring that spiritual curiosity. Again, its governed by the ruleset and the restrictions placed on us by our Avatars. Tom's experience is not universal, and was defined strictly by the ruleset and parameters which constrict his FWAU. PMR and NPMR experience is not a "one size fits all" structure. It it were, it would be homogeneous and invariant with no potential for growth.

Again, I'm not advocating nor defending the use of substances. They're certainly things I myself would not do as I have enough problems to deal with. I feel we just might want to examine such issues from as many perspectives as possible to consider their big picture implications.

Mullbua, all the best in your travels, and caution. You know your own limitations better than anyone on this board...

~Martin

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 Post subject: Re: drug abuse
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 11:14 am 
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@Martin:

hey man thanks for puting in the thought i can really relate to your view on this topic..all the best to you as well !


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 Post subject: Re: drug abuse
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:29 pm 
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I know this is an old post but I wanted to mention that the word "drugs" is a little subjective don't you think? And where do you draw the line? You could say it's okay to take "antidepressants" from your doctors prescription for depression but we are now finding that psilocybin mushrooms which are considered psychedelic drugs & completely natural are having a very positive effect with depression & PTSD.

Personally I believe there are natural "drugs" or "plant medicines" which we should be using not only for our health but also expanding our consciousness & helping us wake up to different reality frames, NPMR e.g.

Just my opinion, obviously my option for heroin, cocaine, meth, crack would be to not try them at all! Which again makes my point clearer "drugs" is a very subjective word and should be used carefully for obvious reasons. Not to mention half the drugs we are prescribed by our doctors often cause us more harm than good.

Josh


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