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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 7:28 pm 
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Hmm I hope I word this right. I am wondering did AUO start off as a zero entropy system, or did he start off has a high entropy system? I know we are always evolving to lower our entropy, but wouldn't AUO, the perfectly calm ocean with no ripples in it, no data in it, be the epitome of a perfect ordered system. Its like a computer whose code was nothing but 0s, absolute order, but nothing happening. When AUO starts to make patterns within itself, isn't that the first sign of disorder? Or am I not thinking about entropy right? Is it not the system but the quality of consciousness becoming self aware the lowering of entropy?

Did we start from absolute order and we will again return to this absolute order only with full awareness? Or did we start from absolute chaos and our end state will be highly ordered? Even though AUO is a rippleless ocean, is it still considered high entropy for how dimly aware it is?

Where does disorder start, and where does it end? I mean I know the saying "I am the alpha and the omega". Is our end our beginning, only aware this time? Or is our end something different, some kind of highly ordered object at the end of the time?

Basically did AUO start off has high entropic or low entropic? If it did start off low entropy, why did the game start in the first place? Did it create entropy just to start a game in which it can revise itself? Similar to a computer, perfect order is nothing, perfect chaos is just static, in between is where data and information comes across. Does low entropy mean having data to use in an effective way?

Sorry if this wording is a bit confusing? If you understand what I am saying though, any answers and advice would be appreciated. :)


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 12:00 am 
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It is your understanding that is confused. The Initial state was the Void. Then the Void became activated, the Reality Cells appeared or came into existence, filled with random data which is a high entropy state, which then began to interact according to a rule set for the Reality Cells. This progressed until self organization and emergent properties produced the pattern of the RWW separating off 'patches' of Reality Cells as IUOCs which spread over all of the LCS. This produced AUO by uniting the whole of the LCS into the one thing so that all parts could communicate together and interact together. This initial state of AUO was high entropy but finally united the LCS into AUO.

AUO began to interact internally with its IUOCs sending messages that were initially meaningless over the RWW, meaning began to develop and this vast information system eventually developed consciousness as it shed entropy. AUO eventually became The One Consciousness. Then it started creating VRs, first NPMRs and then eventually PMRs and became AUM in its quest to further lower its entropy and improve its QOC.

This is of course the barest outline. You might study the more complete version of Tom Campbell's model on Tom's Wiki: http://wiki.my-big-toe.com/The_MBT_Model_Link_Page It's only about 20 pages, although they are long, wiki pages with much information. I have in mind making some updates to it which I have mentioned on the board in terms of understanding some things that might be further said regarding the rule set and functionality details of the LCS which take the LCS far beyond Cellular Automata as studied here in PMR mathematics. Unfortunately some health problems interfere with my work here at present until some side effects of a medication I no longer take wears off. It is slow to wear off.

This information is basically in Tom's books, but some of the more advanced aspects of it are included only in terms of references in the last section of the last book to other researchers who had pertinent ideas and also the concept of Cellular Automata. While CAs were basically described in his books with the reality cells and contained data interacting according to a rule set, the LCS was not called a CA, in order to keep the complexity of the description down in his books which are the beginning of your study of MBT theory. May the force be with you on your quest for understanding, young Jedi.

Ted


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 6:03 pm 
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Okay that makes sense. So is the void itself high entropy? Or just the reality cells/data which came to being in the void? Do we ever return this void state? Or is the end state this super conscious AUM being?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 6:51 pm 
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You can access the Void in meditation. That is where basically deep meditation takes you to. Then you can go further in meditation, if you have made the necessary connection to the LCS and you ask to experience the Void when it is 'quickened' or activated. Not greatly different other than you know that something is ready to happen. This is the instant before the reality cells and data in them start to interact. When the reality cells and random initial data has come into existence within the Void, but has not yet begun to interact. Then you can further experience what the ancient Indian metaphysicians called Indra's Net, again by requesting the experience. This is in effect when the LCS has reached the state of being United as AUO. But you cannot tell it from other later states like AUM as VRs do not show up. It is all just messaging over the RWW with nothing observable to differentiate later stages of development. One such message 'looks' much like another so you cannot tell what the LCS is doing at any instant. There are just constant 'reflections' or messages passing from IUOC to IUOC.

The Void in itself is not related to entropy as being high or low entropy.

Ted


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:59 pm 
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Okay so the void is basically the emptiness in which the process of entropy reduction takes place in, but it itself is unchanging? Is this the emptiness/stillness that the Buddha and other wisdom traditions talk about? Why does that seem like the goal in these traditions? Is that what Nirvana is? Annihilation of the self into that void? Is it a goal? or is it a realization of where we came?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:59 pm 
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Difficult for me to generalize about Buddhism or other sources of information when I am not a practitioner and experienced in the whole range of Buddhist thought or even any particular sect and its thought. I would say that the Void is the 'space' or 'place' within which everything else that exists comes into existence, grows and develops into as the LCS as basically a digital reality. But yes, I do expect that is the emptiness/stillness that wisdom traditions talk about. I do not think that it represents Nirvana however. You must study such traditions to know and understand their goals and terminology. We would not suggest annihilation of the self into the Void or otherwise as a goal. Better to form a connection to the LCS and understand not just where you came from but who you are in your total self.

At least this is my understanding.

Ted


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 12:15 am 
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Okay thank you. That clears it up for the most part. So besides this void of nothingness, we could say that we started from chaos and we are moving into order?

I remember towards the end of MBT Tom talks a little bit how "the game" has already been played multiples times, saying this is like the 7th or 8th time we have ran through the entire program.. So is there an end point to this? Some kind of "transcendental object at the end of time" that we are all heading for? The singularity? Some kind of "state of perfection"? Is there a destination of sorts? Or does it have loose ends still? Is more about the journey, playing the game? Or is there a goal for the system? A day where all conscious beings become love, all in full awareness of our true selves? or is there a moment where we all return to AUM?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 12:39 am 
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As an IUOC at base, we are never not a part of AUM as AUM is the Union of all IUOCs.

We are moving from a high entropy state of randomness but I would not say Chaos as such. There is still even from the origin and beginning the order of the reality cells and the rule set for their interactions. There are also the properties of the LCS as studied in PMR pure mathematics of self organization and emergent properties which have played major roles in the development and uniting of the LCS, allowing it to become/develop into The One Consciousness. But yes, there is a continual move into increasing order (reduced entropy) and also increasing meaning.

Please provide a reference, preferably to the Google Books version for ease of access to Tom's books to the source for your question about "this is like the 7th or 8th time we have ran through the entire program". I do not recognize what you are stating or at least do not remember it now as you describe.

Tom has described the 'goal for the system' as being more open ended with no specific goal of perfection or otherwise which would be static. Rather Tom describes the LCS as continually growing and developing and continually adding IUOCs which keeps potentially adding new things to the LCS and ever growing capabilities to AUM as it grows and lowers its entropy. There is no concept of perfection as an end point for AUM. Rather there is an expectation of dynamic equilibrium instead of static perfection.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 1:48 am 
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Hmm interesting during a state of intense meditation, I had this experience of kind of the game ending and being left in state of utter perfection. I was wondering if it was true, or some kind of projection of mine. It at least felt absolutely perfect in the brief minute that it lasted. But your saying this is not the case, and that we keep growing asymptotically towards more and more refined states. I wonder why this idea even arose then.

Also I having trouble finding where Tom says the part about "this being the 7th time around". I am pretty sure it is in there somewhere and didn't just conjure it up. I remember it was toward the end in the 3rd book. He says now that you have a fundamental understanding I am gonna relay a few secrets to you. And gives some insights on some of the quirks and mysteries he discovered in his travels. And I am pretty sure he says this isn't the first time the game has been played. If I do find it perhaps I can let you know, because it is quite interesting if so.

Also I know we are always connected with AUM, but also somewhere in the book Tom said something like if you reemerge with AUM your identity and sense of individuality would come to end and you would again just be AUM consciousness, but then he says that is not really the point... Reminds me of some of the Hindu teachings, where your not supposed become God, but your supposed to live just under becoming God, in the highest heavens. Keep your individuality but live in the highest state of love and connection.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 5:19 am 
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Try going to page 713 on this link and see if it is in the area you are thinking about. Chapter 83, Ramifications, Changing the Future, Changing the Past, and the Quantization of Time
https://books.google.com/books?id=RYHtB ... &q&f=false

Keep in mind that when someone says "Tom said this" here, I want to know exactly where to verify that it is in fact what Tom said. What you reference is kind of vaguely stated to search for it on the search within the book function on Google Books.

Ted


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