Return Home
It is currently Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:12 pm

All times are UTC-06:00




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:07 am 
Offline
Normal User
Normal User
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:33 pm
Posts: 49
Exhibit A:

Tom tells us that a sign of a fear-based, high entropy social system such as ours is that we will be very selfish, and worried about what we can get and how we can keep others from getting it, and a characteristic of such a selfish fear-based high-entropy society is that we will form groups, and group together to fight each other, etc.

Exhibit B:

Tom sometimes refers to there being (at least) two opposing "political groups" in the governing function of NPMR, one of which doesn't like the idea that Tom his here apparently, and the other presumably is behind Tom being here to help us out.

But, is the fact that there are opposing "political groups" not a sign of high entropy and fear-based interactions? It would seem that the governing function in NPMR should be evolved enough to be more cooperative than to have such groups and such politics. Any insights here?

P.S. I have another question about what we can learn about our own political systems from the political systems that seem to have evolved in the LCS. Is authoritarianism the optimal political system if TBC is given to rule OS?


Top
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:33 am 
Offline
Curator
Curator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:16 pm
Posts: 11788
Location: Fort Oglethorpe, Georgia
Quote:
Tom sometimes refers to there being (at least) two opposing "political groups" in the governing function of NPMR, one of which doesn't like the idea that Tom his here apparently, and the other presumably is behind Tom being here to help us out.
You are referring to the good 'rats' and the bad 'anti rats' in Tom's metaphor. That is in NPMR and is not like politics here but does have some similarities. TBC, Tom's friend and old acquaintance and mentor, The Big Cheese, with whom he has a long history and by whom was sent here on his mission of creating MBT, is appointed by still higher level management to be the manager for OS. He is not a politician but a 'good guy' bureaucrat in the merit based management system of NPMR from still higher levels and ultimately from AUM. He does not play politics as a politician but does have to deal with the 'politicking' between the rats and anti rats.
Quote:
But, is the fact that there are opposing "political groups" not a sign of high entropy and fear-based interactions? It would seem that the governing function in NPMR should be evolved enough to be more cooperative than to have such groups and such politics. Any insights here?
Yes it is a matter of high entropy there in NPMR, just like here, as the 'citizens' there are based on as avatars of the same 'citizens' here as having the same base of the same IUOCs. But this is not the group from which the management is selected and appointed by still higher management. Remember that the NPMR 'inhabitants' are just the permanently existing NPMR avatars of our own reincarnating 'inhabitants' of PMR avatars with the same IUOCs as their base level. So that of course if you have kindergarten PMRs, you still have a basically kindergarten level NPMR. That is why there is so much trouble getting enough qualified 'guides' to provide guidance for all PMR avatars and the lower levels of development must be in group guidance rather than individual or committee guidance. There are just not enough qualified guides to go around.

But as already explained, NPMR does not politic and vote for its managers, they are appointed for high merit by still higher levels of management and eventually from AUM. So things are not the same. Things in NPMR are not run nor 'owned' by a Plutocracy as the very few 'uber' rich as here. There is no money nor 'things' to own with that money as there are no things to either own nor need, either from greed like property or clothing nor from actual need as like food and shelter. So there is no basis or means for a plutocracy to develop. There still might be what is thought of as an aristocracy based on merit and there is still a grouping of NPMR avatars for various purposes. Tom has mentioned the 'Teachers' as the group from which Seth comes forward to channel his teachings here in PMR and which Tom mentions having some interactions with. There are other groups which exist for other purpose, some similar with 'social benefits' as their purpose and some that are not beneficial but rather based on the control goals of the anti-rats. Also remember that I have mentioned the groups that provide the NPMR based functionality of the 'ecstatic postures' from paleolithic times. So there are socially useful and socially unuseful groups there in NPMR.

As Pogo Possum said, "we have met the enemy and they are us" in paraphrase of the saying by Oliver Hazard Perry, commander of the American fleet on Lake Erie on 10 September 1813, after defeating the British fleet. Perry famously ended with the word, ours, rather than with the word us.

Ted


Top
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:05 am 
Offline
Normal User
Normal User
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:33 pm
Posts: 49
Very interesting. So it's a Meritocracy.

Do you think there is anything to learn from the governance structures in the LCS that we can apply here in PMR? The debate rages white hot between things like Capitalism, Socialism, Communism, Authoritarianism, etc. The governance style at least in OS seems to be a very hands-off, laissez-faire type policy (not interfering with freewill, etc.) yet, it seems somewhat authoritarian in that ultimate power is centralized in one central authority figure and rule is from top down.

Tom has mentioned recently that people have a gut-reaction against "collectivism" which is associated with socialism and communism, and he urges us to not reject collectivism. He suggests collectivism is the answer even.

It seems to me that where the Marxists and socialists and communists have gone wrong is that they impose collectivism through the violent force of the state, which essentially amounts to a violation of free will, and also runs into a few unassailable problems such as the Economic Calculation Problem and the Local Knowledge Problem.

It seems to me that the true socio-economic solution would be a kind of "laissez-faire collectivism", in which we as individuals become more cooperative and compassionate and voluntarily self-organize into a more collectivist society. It seems our having of things like property and money here in PMR complicates things a bit, but I do think reasonable solutions can be arrived at in these areas, as bleak and hopeless as it may seem in the trenches here. Any insight?


Top
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:44 am 
Offline
Curator
Curator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:16 pm
Posts: 11788
Location: Fort Oglethorpe, Georgia
Keep in mind that it is not a meritocracy like you might get here, where everyone would fight over who has the true merit, I'm just as good as she is, etc. There you are talking about a true meritocracy where TBC is a vastly superior IUOC based entity.

The LCS is a collective, if you wish to think of it that way. AUM as The One Consciousness is the Union of all IUOCs in an absolute and literal sense. Think of the neurons of the brain of AUM as the IUOCs and the messaging over the RWW as in effect, the axons and dendrites of that vast Brain/Mind. AUM being Tom Campbell's term for the last and present state of development of The One Consciousness. Free will for the IUOCs is inherent in the nature of the LCS. Our own individual consciousness and sense of our self is a gift of AUM to each of us as AUM has created the various Systems with their manifold of PMRs and NPMRs for us as IUOCs to experience our own existence. AUM does this creation of PMRs and NPMRs for a very collective reason. It provides the ability for each individual IUOC to produce growth for itself, reducing entropy and raising QOC. But simultaneously it reduces AUM's own entropy and raises AUM's own QOC as AUM is in Union, all of us as IUOCs at base.

Ted


Top
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:57 am 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:54 pm
Posts: 5769
Location: Ocala, FL
Any government set up, and maintained, is a reflection on the QoC of the populace. You could put the most beneficial democracy into a country that wasn't ready, and it would soon become something else. Forcing democracy is the misguided idea the US has had in countries all over the world. It doesn't work. In many of these countries, think Iraq, a dictator is actually the most stable form of government. Saddam was a horrible leader. But he kept the religious factions from killing each other, and the economy of the country worked for a lot of the population. That isn't true anymore after the interference of the US.

By in large the type of government you live under is a moot point to evolving the quality of your consciousness. You get presented with a lot of opportunities to learn. You can take advantage of them, or not.


Top
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:50 pm 
Offline
Normal User
Normal User
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:33 pm
Posts: 49
Thank you both for your insights. : )


Top
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 

All times are UTC-06:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited