Entropy Paradoxon

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SteffiOneiro
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Entropy Paradoxon

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Hello I am still quite new here and may not even know the depth of the terms used. I noticed the term "lower entropy" while reading. I googled this term and found the following text:

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Moving from a self-centeredness to an other-centered way of life, moving away from fear, ego beliefs and expectations to a loving way of life. This process has been called spiritual growth, raising the quality (or lowering the entropy) of consciousness, and becoming an adult.
Now I have a criticism of the theory. I hope you understand my critique constructively in the sense, of a deconstruction to create greater freedom. I like to listen to your perspectives and respect them, even if they contradict my personal ideas.

Well I have occupied myself a lot with psychology on my way to be able to perceive this higher consciousness. Maybe it is interesting when psychological views meet with physical views in the sense of an alchemical process?

In the origin my trauma and my feelings of guilt was the motivation to want to understand to it humans. So this need to understand, my inner child, has become a constructive vocation of research. On my way, which is oriented to psychological views, I have learned the following:

There are states of development in which it is appropriate to become aware of one's own self-centeredness and to learn to put it aside. Only when we are able to fit into a social group are we socially compatible.

"My theory of everything", which I deal with a lot, is the Integral Theory, made famous by the philosopher Ken Wilber. Wilber often talks in his books about a model called Spiral Dynamics, which captures human development in terms of a holistic view of levels of development and levels of values. For what I want to explain, we would need a basic understanding in Integral Theory.

A German language book brings out Integral Theory in a somewhat more compact version as Wilber can do. The book is called God 9.0 by Marion Küstenmacher. Here is a little insight into the model, for those people who have not yet studied Integral Theory.
Wikipedia:

Integral theory, also called "integral thinking" or "integral worldview," refers to a school of worldviews that strives to provide a comprehensive view of human beings and the world, often including the spiritual and divine more generally. It is not a unified or precise theory in the strict sense, but an attempt to eclectically unite various views of the natural sciences, humanities, and the humanities, as well as elements of premodern, modern, and postmodern, Eastern and Western worldviews, and spiritual thought.
From the Website of God 9.0

Levels - the Basic Structure of Our Consciousness

Developmental researchers and scientists from various disciplines discovered independently a pattern of progressive levels of human development. They found a variety of different names for these levels: levels of consciousness, hierarchy of needs, values memes, levels of belief, waves of development, stages of maturity, or levels of perception.

The American epistemologist Clare Graves was able to demonstrate on the basis of years of social and psychological studies that the same typical levels of development always appear – in every culture and every country. Each level is based on its predecessor and they form value systems. Graves’s dynamic system of levels was further developed by his students and is today widely known under the name of “Spiral Dynamics”. In the mid-1970s, his students Don Beck and Christopher Cowan developed a colour code, which we use because of its now widespread popularity. Using colours has the added advantage that they are fairly neutral and easier to remember.

1. Beige: Instinct and Survival

The first level of consciousness marks the transition from animal to human, which began some 100,000 years ago. Beige is all about survival of the individual. We experience this level when faced with mortal danger, terminal illness, severe depression, or when feeling suicidal. Under extreme conditions like homelessness, traumatic natural disasters, war and genocide people can fall back to this primal level of consciousness. Beige is also found in the helplessness of the new-born. At this level food, water, warmth and shelter are top priorities. The choice is live or die – and I want to live.


2. Purple: Sorcerers and Clans

Around 50,000 years ago, people began to live together in clans and tribes to ensure their survival. There is a movement from “I” to “We”. Holy festivals, rituals and rites of passage (puberty, marriage, burial) now take place in the group. Exclusion from the group or family is the greatest possible threat and you must avoid it. The world is full of magic. There’s an abundance of supernatural beings that can bring blessings or curses. For children their fluffy toys are living beings. Adults wear amulets, good luck charms, piercings and tattoos. Sacred symbols and sacraments serve to create cohesion within the group. A PURPLE world is full of good and evil spirits and you do your best to ally with the good ones.

3. Red: Warriors, Conquerors, and Conquests

At this level the individual leaves the magical embrace of his clan or family. Children begin to develop autonomy, a sense of self and the ability to react to and defy others (“terrible twos”). Red helps us to resist seduction, addiction and oppression. It enables us to develop self-confidence, daredevil bravery and inner strength. Individuals dare to venture out into the world and make new discoveries. Their desire to answer to no one helps them to liberate themselves from rigid traditions. Their goal is to conquer new lands and strike down their enemies. When threatened, red reacts impulsively with physical violence. Street gangs, the Mafia and many terrorist groups are red organisations. Red divides the world into the weak and the strong, so you had better be strong.


4. Blue: The Majesty, Monarchy, and Divine Order
Blue sets limits. It produces rules and regulations. It creates structures and defines virtues and values. Blue passes judgment on right and wrong and imposes punishments and penalties for wrongdoings. Moral values, deep rooted and unquestioned traditions evolve, along with kingdoms and empires. The power of red impulsiveness is now contained by obedience and curtailed by guilt and shame. Blue develops virtues like loyalty, diligence, punctuality and responsibility. It defines good manners according to nationality and culture. The major monotheistic religions emerge and bind the individual to an all defining absolute. The king is no exception. He may no longer rule according to his autocratic whim, but he too is now subject to a higher law: either God, or a holy book, or some other higher instance. Afterlife now promises redemption and rewards the morally good and faithful with eternal life. A blue world is one of lawful saints and eternally damned sinners, therefore it is better to do good and heed the laws of your group.


5. Orange: Entrepreneurship and Prosperity

After centuries of concentrating on the afterlife, an orange level of consciousness begins to experiment and explore the present world people are actually living in. Enlightenment and modernity create a new type of man, a more self-aware, curious, critical and responsible citizen, one who speaks up for himself. Modern democratic states, a finance system and prosperous industries emerge. No one has to believe in God anymore. Science takes over the task of interpreting the world. Feudal watchdogs give way to the rule of a free and competitive market. An orange world creates winners and losers – so you had better strive to be among the winners.


6. Green: Equality and Community

Two world wars mark the terrible culmination of materialism and the constant striving for more power. People begin to call out for a more humanitarian world with room for compassion and feelings. The external world has already been thoroughly explored, now the inner realms are up for the same. Psychology is green’s new flagship science. All people are equal, minorities and the disadvantaged shall be respected and have their rightful place in society. Men and women shall have equal rights. The earth and her natural resources can no longer be exploited. Decisions must be based on consensus, which can unfortunately entail constant and lengthy discussions, which grind everything to a halt. Even though all people are supposedly equal in a GREEN world – there still seems to be quite a gap between sensitive, aware people and those who are considered insensitive and lacking in awareness.

7. Yellow: Spirituality and Creative Space

The green dream of equality does have its pitfalls. The more industrious and quick-minded people often feel restricted because they always have to consider the disadvantaged and this is time-consuming. This leads to a renewed longing for freedom and the call for personal responsibility. Once again, individuals move on to new ground, breaking established taboos as they do so. They find new and surprising ways to use the Internet. These people are “upwardly-mobile”, care little about status symbols and are active players in international networks. Furthermore, yellow is the first level of consciousness, which actually understands about the development of levels of consciousness. The new yellow awareness can endure and hold paradoxes. Yellow sees human society as a magnificent, chaotic organism that evolves naturally and is in flow with the pulsating aliveness of life. Knowledge and skills take precedence over power, status, material possessions and group interests. They prefer to work flexible hours and have personal independence, yet they are emotionally more engaged in their work. Yellow can hold contradictions and opposing positions internally until they find reconciliation in a third and higher (or meta-) synthesis.

8. Turquoise: Cooperation and Play

Driven by yellow individualists a new “We”-focused era will dawn. Turquoise is as cooperative as green, and accepting of diversity and paradox as yellow. For turquoise, the world is an elegantly balanced system of interlocking forces and frequencies. All things, including emotions and knowledge, are interconnected and in vibrant interplay with one another. Globalization is taken for granted and the positive forces arising out of each level of consciousness can be applied with ease. The whole universe is celebrated as a single dynamic organism, in which spirit and matter move together in perfect harmony. With gracious and generous open-heartedness, turquoise people maintain a playfully simple, minimalist lifestyle.

9. Coral: Breaking New Ground

At present this level of consciousness is pure theory. It can be assumed from previous experience with development of the human mind and spirit, that turquoise will be equally unable to solve all the problems, which ever-changing life conditions present us with. Following turquoise and a global sense of belonging, another “I”-level will emerge, once again breaking new ground. At least we already have a colour reserved for it: coral, symbolizing the inhabitants of the depths of the ocean, a marine world and a part of our planet, which has as yet to be explored. Since this new level will integrate all previous ones coral will actually include the awareness of “beige+purple+red+blue+orange+green+yellow+turquoise + x”. So everything is alive and evolving. We hope your curiosity is aroused!
This is to have a basis for what I am getting at in terms of entropy.

Many spiritual concepts aim to have the student learn ethical training before having a true mystical experience. For example, Christianity preaches charity, or in Buddhism we might take a bodhisattva vow. It does not always have to be in this official form.

I, for example, vowed as a child to be a good person, although I had nothing to do with religious concepts. It happened out of suffering. Out of dissociation from the people who did me harm. I never wanted to be like these people and live my life for the good of all people. This self-promise had then led to the fact that I had bound myself to this promise. I aligned my whole life according to this point of view that I formed as a result of suffering. That I was bound to a (good) identity because of this ideology to lead my life for the benefit of all beings.

Later, when I read a book by the Buddhist teacher Chögyam Trungpa about the Boddhisattva vow, I understood what that vow was and that I had to let go of it, because the Boddhisattva has to leave his identity in order to experience enlightenment. But one thing at a time.

As a person evolves, he must learn to tame his emotions, to put aside his personality in favor of social coexistence, in favor of a higher purpose. In the Spiral Dynamis model this development is completed with the completion of the green stage.

Then a turning point is needed! Otherwise one cannot see the whole consciousness System!

This turn is described in the Integral Model as a jump from the First Tier to the Second Tier. But also in the mystical Kabbalah, which works less rationally, but more with magic terms and also expresses a great theory of everything, the leap is described, which cancels the dual view, because the paradox of all perspectives must be integrated at the same time.

There is a point in every development when you have become so mindful and sensitive, so empathic and compassionate. You can put your own person aside in favor of a higher goal. Many people who have developed to this point, despite their dedication to being good, still do not experience peace with the environment, because they split off a part of their self from a psychological point of view. Without peace, it is difficult to perceive the higher consciousness.

Here is the possibility to integrate the psychological shadow, named by the Swiss depth psychologist C.G. Jung, into the personality. From my experience I can only say, one gets difficulties in higher states of consciousness, if one neglects the confrontation with the own shadow. Because my first enlightenment 5 years ago threw me into a serious spiritual crisis, because at that time I had no awareness of shadows, as well as traumatization. Only the confrontation has gradually unlocked the higher states of consciousness. It becomes especially difficult when we encounter the shadows in magical states, because there they have a very powerful effect. Thus, to lower entropy in general can, in the worst case, lead to a Spiritual Crisis and prevent higher states of consciousness.

Carl Gustav Jung had the theory of individuation (of becoming oneself). According to this, you experience enlightenment when you reintegrate your personality, which you consciously set aside on the blue, orange, green levels, on yellow, turquoise, coral. By living yourself, by taking the projection of your shadow back to yourself again and again, by learning to be your own authority, you dissolve the separation between individual self-awareness and environment. When you integrate all shadows, you make peace between the individual and the environment. In this peace, the self-image, the ego dissolves and opens the way to higher states of consciousness.

I know many spiritual people who put their personality on the back burner, deny it, and thereby maintain an unconscious ego structure and block access to their consciousness. For this reason, I find the ideas that it makes sense to lower entropy in general to be one-sided. Not wrong, but one-sided. It is somewhat like quantum theory. We don't have wave or particle, we habe both wave and particle. Both. It's about the state in the space in between before we decide. From my experience, that's how it is with entropy. But maybe I am carrying owls to Athens, and I have only misunderstood the texts I have read so far, because I do not know deeply enough yet.

From an inegral point of view, whether entropy should be lowered depends on the level of consciousness. If you are at a level of green and lower, then you need to lower entropy. If you are at a level of yellow and higher, then you need to bring back lost entropy to become one higher consciousness.

Yes, in order to open up to our higher consciousness system, we would have to learn to reset our self-centeredness and yes, we would also have to learn to be ourselves again. Both and. That is alchemy. According to this, I am presenting a paradox with my point of view, which, in my experience, is what unlocks the higher consciousness systems in the first place. This is the unification of opposites that dissolves all boundaries. But before we can dissolve these boundaries, we need an ethical training in which we learn to lower entropy. This thing is only to understand in the middle between two points of view. There where there is no one who is bound to one point of view. There is freedom.

Now I am curious about your Perspectives to my thoughts.

Greetings
Steffi

This text was translated from german to english with deepl.
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Re: Entropy Paradoxon

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Re: Entropy Paradoxon

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## my responses indicated with ##


Hello I am still quite new here and may not even know the depth of the terms used. I noticed the term "lower entropy" while reading. I googled this term and found the following text:

## context here is that Tom's "spirituality for the rest of us" is tailored for STEM propellerheads (nerds) who have not previously connected to any language or modelling of Big science. "Entropy" is inefficiency, and it is inefficiency because improved transpersonal competence is part of your entrainment on the temporal human experience and eternal soul experience due to all sentience being connected and designed/evolved to be cooperative.

Now I have a criticism of the theory. I hope you understand my critique constructively in the sense, of a deconstruction to create greater freedom. I like to listen to your perspectives and respect them, even if they contradict my personal ideas.

## ideas are merely old maps discovered in the attic, without value until we try to follow them, test them against life experience.

Well I have occupied myself a lot with psychology on my way to be able to perceive this higher consciousness. Maybe it is interesting when psychological views meet with physical views in the sense of an alchemical process?

## psychology is centered on the emotional experience of life, analysed by mind, governed by will power, within a physical body platform. The missing link is the eternal IUOC behind the controls, forming ethical intentions.

In the origin my trauma and my feelings of guilt was the motivation to want to understand to it humans. So this need to understand, my inner child, has become a constructive vocation of research. On my way, which is oriented to psychological views, I have learned the following:

## trauma and guilt may simply be best guesses for modeling labels to understand discomfort, the universal discomfort pushing us to live, search, grow up.

There are states of development in which it is appropriate to become aware of one's own self-centeredness and to learn to put it aside. Only when we are able to fit into a social group are we socially compatible.

## the first level is a socio-pathological tempering of overt immature behavioral self centeredness for the purpose of achieving broader selfish, worldly goals. A necessary stage.
Entropy is reduced when our selfishness is tempered from a different intention, piloted from a deeper level, which is actually an intelligent, wholeistic selfishness, the selfishness of an aware transpersonal entity. What looks like selflessness at the human level is actually selfishness in the Big picture. It is pleasure for a more fully grown up entity.

"My theory of everything", which I deal with a lot, is the Integral Theory, made famous by the philosopher Ken Wilber. Wilber often talks in his books about a model called Spiral Dynamics, which captures human development in terms of a holistic view of levels of development and levels of values. For what I want to explain, we would need a basic understanding in Integral Theory.

## cannot comment on Wilber

A German language book brings out Integral Theory in a somewhat more compact version as Wilber can do. The book is called God 9.0 by Marion Küstenmacher. Here is a little insight into the model, for those people who have not yet studied Integral Theory.

This is to have a basis for what I am getting at in terms of entropy.

Many spiritual concepts aim to have the student learn ethical training before having a true mystical experience.

## I think Tom concurs that ethical training is better than nothing, but it is not the Big picture cycle of the soul interacting with intention and results. Further, under MBT, there is no "mystical". Its just science that looks at all the data without blinders.

For example, Christianity preaches charity,

## I think Jesus shared insights on being an eternal soul experiencing a human life, and his key insight was to pay very careful attention to your relationships, especially so when the stronger interact with the weaker. Gospel Christianity (limited to the likely words Jesus said, accepted by Einstein, overlaps with MBT almost entirely).

or in Buddhism we might take a bodhisattva vow.

## bodhisattva (charity from the mental level) is one stop along way ending with Tantra. empathetic natural action without ethics or rules, again, consistent with MBT.

It does not always have to be in this official form.

I, for example, vowed as a child to be a good person, although I had nothing to do with religious concepts. ,

## old souls such as yourself, with many lives in their resumes, instinctually know the Big Picture rules of the road, and RUSH toward novel soul experiences to entrain against.

It happened out of suffering.

## what can happen without suffering? : - )

Out of dissociation from the people who did me harm.

## someone had to animate that body in that PMR scenario. Maybe you chose that incarnation to learn or show off how tough you are ; - )

I never wanted to be like these people and live my life for the good of all people.

## a drama has to begin somewhere. A more comfortable soul nursery likely would have stalled your velocity. I suggest thankfulness for your life planner

This self-promise had then led to the fact that I had bound myself to this promise. I aligned my whole life according to this point of view that I formed as a result of suffering. That I was bound to a (good) identity because of this ideology to lead my life for the benefit of all beings.

## Das inflection point supremo

Later, when I read a book by the Buddhist teacher Chögyam Trungpa about the Boddhisattva vow, I understood what that vow was and that I had to let go of it, because the Boddhisattva has to leave his identity in order to experience enlightenment. But one thing at a time.

## the higher game is to set aside "do gooder'ism" and just BE, another MBT suggestion. Pay attention to your intent->decision->action->result cycle in real life. I hung out with Trunpa's Shambala people for a few years.

As a person evolves, he must learn to tame his emotions,

## mind and will conquer body and emotion, then soul conquers small science mind and will in favor of Big science mind and will.

to put aside his personality in favor of social coexistence,

## I dont think it is a putting aside or denial, but rather, discovering it is more wholeistically fun to blend personalities and reweight your life to hyper focus on interaction with sentience.

in favor of a higher purpose. In the Spiral Dynamis model this development is completed with the completion of the green stage.

## your higher purpose is to get in and out of the supermarket without harming anyone and hopefully improving global consciousness through your intent as you pass through the aisles and exit parking.

Then a turning point is needed! Otherwise one cannot see the whole consciousness System!

This turn is described in the Integral Model as a jump from the First Tier to the Second Tier. But also in the mystical Kabbalah, which works less rationally, but more with magic terms and also expresses a great theory of everything, the leap is described, which cancels the dual view, because the paradox of all perspectives must be integrated at the same time.


There is a point in every development when you have become so mindful and sensitive, so empathic and compassionate.

## in a way, not your problem. Your concern is to pay attention to your intent and to follow the feedback mechanism, whereever it leads. Part of growing up is uncovering that we are assholes and giving up the spiritual materialism of thinking we are good people. The more you think of yourself as a good person, the further you are from enlightenment, salvation, growing up.

You can put your own person aside in favor of a higher goal.

## no putting aside, no higher goal. The dishes are sitting on the counter and you are leaving then for your spouse to deal with while you think high thoughts. Less thinking, more interactive living.

Many people who have developed to this point, despite their dedication to being good, still do not experience peace with the environment, because they split off a part of their self from a psychological point of view.

## there are a thousand ways to not be at peace.

Without peace, it is difficult to perceive the higher consciousness.

## interactive intent in a frame state of non-peace is merely another experience packet. Natural impulsive compassion, arising from the soul level, framed by a state of physical and emotional entropy, would be the mark of an old soul indeed. ie terminally ill child, in pain, demonstrates compassionate intent

Here is the possibility to integrate the psychological shadow, named by the Swiss depth psychologist C.G. Jung, into the personality. From my experience I can only say, one gets difficulties in higher states of consciousness, if one neglects the confrontation with the own shadow. Because my first enlightenment 5 years ago threw me into a serious spiritual crisis, because at that time I had no awareness of shadows, as well as traumatization. Only the confrontation has gradually unlocked the higher states of consciousness. It becomes especially difficult when we encounter the shadows in magical states, because there they have a very powerful effect. Thus, to lower entropy in general can, in the worst case, lead to a Spiritual Crisis and prevent higher states of consciousness.

## Perhaps shadow is his metaphor for IUOC eternal entity, its hungers, fears, memories, wisdom. I don't think anyone can know if they are in a higher or lower state of consciousness. I dont think you confront your shadow, rather you order your body and mind so that "the shadow", what you actually are, can express its intent through your interaction with sentience, for the purpose of entraining against the ruleset and players. Its a series of challenges for the purpose of growing up. Too many Angels on Pins philosophy might be a limitation. You say crisis like its a bad thing ; -)

Carl Gustav Jung had the theory of individuation (of becoming oneself). According to this, you experience enlightenment when you reintegrate your personality, which you consciously set aside on the blue, orange, green levels, on yellow, turquoise, coral. By living yourself, by taking the projection of your shadow back to yourself again and again, by learning to be your own authority, you dissolve the separation between individual self-awareness and environment. When you integrate all shadows, you make peace between the individual and the environment. In this peace, the self-image, the ego dissolves and opens the way to higher states of consciousness.

## another way to say it is to grow up physically, emotionally, mentally, then transpersonally, investigating ALL of the data. There is no higher no lower, but only following the path, as others have, as others will. Those further on the path are no higher than those at the start of the path.

I know many spiritual people who put their personality on the back burner, deny it, and thereby maintain an unconscious ego structure and block access to their consciousness.

## people are "spiritual" while they are trying to figure out the escape room. The real game is totally non-spiritual. Ego persists and turns all available material to its protection.

For this reason, I find the ideas that it makes sense to lower entropy in general to be one-sided.

## the irony is that you have to set aside the mental model in order to play properly. Simply live and pay attention. Trying to lower entropy with interfere.

Not wrong, but one-sided. It is somewhat like quantum theory. We don't have wave or particle, we habe both wave and particle. Both.

## not really, you have probability waves that pretend to look physical when someone is looking. ; - ) but I get your point

It's about the state in the space in between before we decide. From my experience, that's how it is with entropy. But maybe I am carrying owls to Athens, and I have only misunderstood the texts I have read so far, because I do not know deeply enough yet.

## soul intent-> mental decision-> physical action-> physical feedback -> soul feedback -> quality of consciousness delta tick up or down

From an inegral point of view, whether entropy should be lowered depends on the level of consciousness. If you are at a level of green and lower, then you need to lower entropy. If you are at a level of yellow and higher, then you need to bring back lost entropy to become one higher consciousness.

## entropy is a loose metaphor for moving toward an optimal point of all variables to maximize generation of quality of consciousness. For example, Chaos, stress and unpredictability are all helpful for keeping the game at an optimal level for learning.

Yes, in order to open up to our higher consciousness system, we would have to learn to reset our self-centeredness and yes, we would also have to learn to be ourselves again.

## rather than opening up higher conscoiusness, we are rather creating higher consciousness through living interactively. We do need to learn at the FWAU level how to let the higher self express its intent.

Both and. That is alchemy.

## alchemy perhaps is the small science word for Big science not yet understood

According to this, I am presenting a paradox with my point of view, which, in my experience, is what unlocks the higher consciousness systems in the first place.

## no unlocking, rather creating.

This is the unification of opposites that dissolves all boundaries.

## physical, emotional, mental, transpersonal, in a harmonious dance with all sentience on the stage

But before we can dissolve these boundaries, we need an ethical training in which we learn to lower entropy.

## ethics perhaps removes a boundary, perhaps not. There may be good learn'in incarnate as an uneducated sociopathic gang member, getting a lot of intense interactive feedback. Ethics may prove to be a pale substitute for actual life experience. Hinayana versus Tantra.

This thing is only to understand in the middle between two points of view.

There where there is no one who is bound to one point of view. There is freedom.

## required for an authentic big scientist

Now I am curious about your Perspectives to my thoughts.

## I hope my perspectives are more of a help than hindrance to your adventure

Greetings
Steffi

This text was translated from german to english with deepl.
Does this PMR make my butt look big?
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