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 Post subject: Re: Suicide
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 3:21 pm 
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Maybe they are picking their parents specifically for the potential life without having a bunch of belief systems to overcome in some cases, it's fractal right?
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 Post subject: Re: Suicide
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:58 pm 
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From what I've seen the parents are ordinary and in awe of their children.


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:08 pm 
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hahaha sounds like me.
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 Post subject: Re: Suicide
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:29 pm 
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I don't think you could call yourself ordinary in any sense of the word! :)


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:16 pm 
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Clau - don't you know that ignorance is no excuse under the law? And I don't think it is in the VR either. Take two little boys raised the same way by the same parents. One becomes a doctor and one becomes a terrorist. Both are responsible for their choices. No excuses unless there is a physical/psychological defect that effects their decision space. Otherwise everyone would have an excuse for something.
but, is the purpose of incarnation to act in accordance to an objective absolute standard, and then be judged according to that standard (which is actually a very Christian idea which I would sympathize with)

or under MBT, is the purpose of incarnation for the FWAU to entrain against the environment to reduce entropy, (seek efficiency),... and for there to be authentic increase in consciousness, the FWAU must act according to their level of understanding at that moment - otherwise they would be following a ruleset or religion.

in this way, love is not a command to be followed or a law to be obeyed, it is "merely" efficiency (syntropy)

this is why I suggested that the person who enjoys hunting, should keep hunting, until their conscience suggests otherwise.

this is why the deluded 911 bomber who acts out of thinking they are doing good, may actually get kudos from the system, if a noble intention was motivating them

so the analysis for each individual is not what is right or what is wrong, the battleground is "what is my conscience telling me to do" ...and then doing it.

I think the more you follow this voice, the more demanding it becomes

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 Post subject: Re: Suicide
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:39 pm 
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In the Moral Code part II thread, kroeran and you apparently have a different opinion on what's right and what's wrong regarding domestic animals.
Clau
I am not sure where I stand on eating domestic animals...and I am probably going to eliminate the small amount of meat in my diet soon regardless

I just was trying to clarify the actual argument for vegetarianism within the TOE model. It still think it is a bit fuzzy.

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 Post subject: Re: Suicide
PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 6:33 am 
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kroeran -

There is a whole thread on vegetarianism if you do a search. Tom's position is clear. He doesn't eat meat unless it won't contribute to the death of the animal i.e. if he is somewhere there is a big spread of food and his eating it won't make any difference.


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide
PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:33 am 
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well, the question of the role and value of creating farmed life in this equation has been posed and not been addressed -

and eating meat at a buffet impacts the measure of leftovers which impacts the algorithm that the event planner uses for ordering food at future events which impacts inventory dissappearance which impacts the perceived demand curve for meat.

my take on it is that we are actors on a stage, and we need to behave on this stage in a way that does not make us embarrassed at the stage party. So it comes down to establishing a moral contract with the other life form. I could envision creating a situation of hatching and creating chickens and giving them a very high quality of life, and then once their egg laying age was passed, turning them into soup, and being able to look them in the eye at the stage party.

where I see the problem, is the actual act of slaughter, and the emotional incapacity to do this - and the immorality of pretending that this is not happening in the background each time you buy a BBQ chicken. I think otherwise we have an intuitive result looking for an intellectual argument that does not quite hang together.

I think the same model goes for horses. I had a polo pony when I was a bit younger that I used in a "poor man's" unserious polo club. (which I rapidly retreated from once I realised how expensive (inefficent/entropic) the hobby was...though it was a very efficient ticket for meeting quality women). Did not look into where he came from or where he went after I sold him. I think if I was to be into that again, I would have to be very careful where I bought him and then make a life commitment to seeing him out in old age. There are worse things than being killed.

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 Post subject: Re: Suicide
PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:57 am 
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Yes being killed is not the end of the world, supporting the killing sentient beings with selfish Intent (to eat when there are other things without Consciousness that would work), and when not in self defense devolves our Consciousness. We are all One so it matters.
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 Post subject: Re: Suicide
PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:12 pm 
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do you not think the state of mind during occurrence plays a role?


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide
PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:00 pm 
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do you not think the state of mind during occurrence plays a role?
Hi Eva,
To whom does your question go? :)
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 Post subject: Re: Suicide
PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:01 am 
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I do make a life time commitment to all my animals. Even my horse who was a retired racehorse. I had to put him down when he was 20 because of a foot problem (founder). That is why I've never bred animals of any kind. I could never give one away or sell one and not know what happened to them.


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide
PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 6:40 am 
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at one point during my riding training adventures I was given a retired racehorse to use for a hack into the woods

there was an old practice racetrack on the farm

the horse turned into the track and then took off like a rocket, with me on it

it was a peak experience
==
along with the various religions, I "studied" old money as a cultural meme (as an outsider)

when you take a family with unlimited resources, unconstrained materially, and run the experiment over several generations, you get some interesting data - which can serve as a guide, a short cut, to delicious things (that mostly are accessible to all economic classes)

horses and horse life usually figure big in the results. (and dogs)
==
Driving from the Northeast to SWF I cut through Ocala country last September. On a farm signpost it read "Almost Heaven".

From what I saw there I thought, pretty much.

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 Post subject: Re: Suicide
PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:13 am 
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I've ridden ex-racehorses all my life so I've had that same experience myself! It is hard to be very involved in horses and not rub up against some serious money. The Campbell soup heiress lives here and has a huge, gorgeous farm. Ocala is very pretty in places. Unfortunately the recession has hit here big time. The unemployment rate runs between 14-15%. We have so many restaurants and businesses that have failed.


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide
PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:46 am 
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When I was a kid we went to a Chinchilla farm, and there was this Chinchilla that just kept chewing on it's fur until it was useless as fur. The "farmer" gave the Chinchilla to us, to my brother Blane. After that that Chinchilla never chewed on it's fur again. Stress of the farm? Maybe, self preservation, I think so. Our German Shepard ended up eating him....:\
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