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 Post subject: Re: Is Love a Myth?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:51 pm 
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Ted,

It strikes me as perhaps meaningful that you had been thinking about this unconsciously during the time that I was thinking about it consciously. I've been searching through various posts, mulling over exactly what it is that has me puzzled. My thoughts are really muddled so I may not even make sense here, but I'll take a stab.

First, I wonder what Love means in a digital system. In our PMR VR Love may mean many things and generate different feelings based on the type of Love felt. But is Love also an emotion to AUM or something else? Does AUM EXPRESS LOVE? At that level is it expressed by creating more IUOC's only, or is there more to it? What else, if anything, is AUM doing with this all-important LOVE? If the LCS/AUM evolves by using Love to create more and more IUOC's only, that's really pretty cool. To humanity we tend to feel that "LOVE isn't LOVE until you give it away." Is AUM 'giving away the Love', by creating more IUOC's? Is that the whole point, and the end product of entropy reduction, Love, and evolution?

Is Love synonymous with entropy reduction? Love seems to cause entropy to decrease, but a decrease in entropy also seems to generate Love. We, and the whole system evolves by becoming Love, and AUM is Love. So to my (perhaps VERY muddled) way of thinking, they seem to be the same: "Something" produced to further evolution. The only way evolution can evidently evolve in a digital system. Makes sense if I don't think about it too much and confuse myself, and probably others, even more.

Ted, I await your further words of wisdom on the subject with bated breath.

Sainbury, I capitalized Love every time, just for you. :)

I've had to edit this twice now for typos. Should really have read it before posting. My apologies to anyone who may have read it before the edits.

Love To All,
Ann

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 Post subject: Re: Is Love a Myth?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 3:34 pm 
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I believe that I have been thinking about how to explain and discuss this since it was introduced. In the past, I became clearly used to having to 'sleep' on some questions when I did not have the proper response right off. Then it became easier and even if I did not know what I would say, I could start typing and the information would be there. So I am used to working through things without involving conscious thought, whether from guidance or self developed. This is a major extension of things, realizing that you could look at 'becoming love' as an emergent process within the LCS and that what is happening then becomes logical and more understandable. I did not rationally and consciously reach that conclusion. Hopefully Tom agrees.

We are not privy to what AUM actually 'thinks'. We have no way to know if or how AUM experiences emotions at all like humans do. We can only observe what seems to be done and extrapolate. As explained, there is more than just creating more IUOCs. There is the creation of VRs for IUOCs to experience themselves in and to evolve. AUM could have surely figured out some other way for itself to grow without so much trouble and uncertainty. The development process chosen is both slow and uncertain with uncertainty of change of entropy from incarnation to incarnation. It also involves a lot of apparent effort on the part of AUM to design, create and manage the instances of TBC that organize and project VRs ahead and provide the experience to participating IUOCs. There is a probably simpler and easier way but which would not provide the value to individual IUOCs that the present system of VRs does. Basically we are applying love as a metaphor for what AUM seems to experience and as a result do. It is all a metaphor, and a guess at that, as AUM does not provide periodic 'bulletins' of what it is thinking and planning, or feeling. The only thing that the LCS/AUM seems to provide in the way of a universal 'message' to us as IUOCs is that mystics for millennia have experienced the sequence of the Void, the activated Void and then Indra's Net, and separately the Buddha observing that our lives and suffering are Illusion, which I interpret as being the basic concept of a Virtual Reality. In all of the millennia since then, there has been no change or addition to this information. What I experienced seems to match what ancient mystics and metaphysicians also experienced. So we simply do not know what AUM is thinking and even what has been experienced still tells us nothing about what AUM is thinking and feeling, other than looking at the resulting actions.

Love would seem to be more a result of entropy reduction and improved QOC than anything else although it clearly existed for AUM before the VRs were created or they would not have been created. And it seems to be expressed by AUM towards the IUOCs as providing the VRs to experience ourselves within and develop ourselves within. More so than just by creating more IUOCs alone. Understand that I have only given a brief overview above compared to what I think I can see to write, eventually.

Ted


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 Post subject: Re: Is Love a Myth?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:47 am 
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Question: So, assuming it's Love that is generated by the lower entropy that we contribute to AUM/IUOC,

Tom: Yes, that is true.

Question: What I am asking is what happens to that Love? What is it used for?

Tom: Love is not a thing like dirt or diamonds that can be put in a box and mailed. Love is not static, it is alive and active. Love is an attribute or expression of consciousness, an expression of a beings quality, like fear, anger, compassion, or kindness…in MBT love is defined as “an expression of low entropy consciousness”. When you are a supremely low entropy consciousness what you think, intend, or do, expresses love… then, it is said that you have become love, that you have evolved to have a supremely high quality of consciousness. One can only express oneself within a VR of some type. Without a VR (without rules to define data, its content bits, and how information moves (is shared) … to define context and choice) one cannot make choices or interact, or think, or experience. The LCS operates within the rules (VR) it creates for itself and others. There are many levels of VRs in this fractal model.

Question: What does the system do with this Love? They obviously don't SHOW Love like we do in a PMR VR by feeding the poor and rescuing stray animals-that's the stuff that's generating the Love.

Tom: They be it. All entities do show their love and/or fear… and express that love and/or fear continually to whatever degree they have evolved it. Of course the LCS doesn’t interfere with the PMR VR we have created and are still creating through our freewill choices. That would interfere with the integrity of the schoolhouse, overrun individual free will, eliminate opportunity to learn from one’s feedback. That would also eliminate PMRs ability to serve as place to evolve the quality of one’s consciousness – ruin our potential value to the LCS. We would all have incarnate in some other PMR that still had free will or stop evolving. The LCS doesn’t interfere in our PMR (doesn’t deny us the free will to make choices and then live with the results) because IT is love. It wants to give us a an optimal environment for evolving our consciousness. The LCS is not our nanny. If we pee on the floor, we have to clean it up or live with it – there is no other way for IUOCs (playing humans) to learn. This PMR environment is optimal for us (humanity) to grow up in as we (humanity) are now. It will become more benevolent as we (humanity) become more benevolent. The LCS is not a benevolent dictator playing with its people like a 6 year old girl plays with her dolls. It is a mistake to wish for that! If that were the case, we could not learn, evolve and become any more than the girl’s dolls can.

Question: Tom said that ONLY PMR experiences can lower entropy. It seems AUM cannot lower entropy without our VR selves generating Love.

Tom: NO. AUM (the LCS – All That Is) also lowers its entropy by evolving – it also makes choices.

Question: What are the benefits for a conscious LCS to have Love?

Tom: Survival. The LCS must Keep evolving toward love or dissipate and eventually die (become a random system).

Question: It must be a very important end product because Tom said in a post that it takes a lot in NMPR to manage, organize, supervise, guide the PMR's, that the NPMR Beings mostly work at guiding and helping us.

Tom: The vast majority of NPMR beings have no idea we (PMR) exist. Most NPMR beings that are also within OS (our System) do work with us (negative and positive).

For more information and detail, all of this is in the books and talked about in many videos.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Love a Myth?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:43 am 
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It is greatly appreciated that Tom would take time from his busy schedule to answer my questions and increase my understanding. Between this and Ted's posts I have some new insight. I had a hard time finding the right words when phrasing the questions to match my thoughts so it may have seemed like I was asking for too much from the system; a monthly AUM bulletin (Ted); Love being a commodity like dirt that can be mailed (Tom). Knowing that Love is not static, but expressed by us in this PMR, led me to question how LCS expresses it since Love is an emotion.

I feel that my questions were taken as sarcastic or out of line. If that's the case I'm truly sorry. I have read the book twice but still had thoughts that seemed hazy. I always search through this board for answers before I ask, because I hesitate to ask. I thank Tom and Ted for their time.

Love To All,
Ann

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"What is the meaning of Paradise? To know yourself to be yourself yet one with The Whole. That is Paradise."- Edgar Cayce


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 Post subject: Re: Is Love a Myth?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:25 am 
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Quote:
Survival.
And why does it choose to survive?

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 Post subject: Re: Is Love a Myth?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:35 am 
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it seems as though the desire to survive may be natural and innate within consciousness at all levels. Our survival instinct as humans is strong, as it is in most creatures in our PMR. Reading through posts about death, most people are terrified of losing their individual consciousness after physical death. Just a guess that surviving and evolving is better than the alternative at every level.

Love To All,
Ann

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"What is the meaning of Paradise? To know yourself to be yourself yet one with The Whole. That is Paradise."- Edgar Cayce


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 Post subject: Re: Is Love a Myth?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:55 pm 
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Quote:
it seems as though the desire to survive may be natural and innate within consciousness at all levels. Our survival instinct as humans is strong, as it is in most creatures in our PMR. Reading through posts about death, most people are terrified of losing their individual consciousness after physical death. Just a guess that surviving and evolving is better than the alternative at every level.

Love to All,
Ann
Yea, I was thinking the same thing. It's like "What the hell else have I got to do?". We've discovered the great Purpose of All That Is. It has nothing better to do with it's time.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Love a Myth?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 5:18 pm 
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Maybe this will help.

Tom: And people then would say, “Why is there a less perfect part?” Why doesn’t the part that's more grown up and whatever just make everything like itself?” There's no advantage in that. It's just taken itself and made itself bigger. Where's the advantage? All right now what? What has it bought with that? What's the advantage to the system of just saying, “I’m going to get rid of everything that's imperfect, (imperfect in a metaphorical way.) I’m going to get rid of all that bad stuff, and it will just be me - cut all that other stuff out. And that will be, “Well that's just where I was when I started this.” That's very limiting. That's not the point. The point is this thing isn't perfect in the sense that it’s still evolving. It's evolving too. It's becoming, “more.”

It's a matter of capacity. It’s got all of this capacity - all of this these ones and zeros, (to take your capacity down to ones and zeros.) And the executive part only fills up a certain amount of that. It just makes itself bigger to be redundant, and fills all the rest of it up with redundant copies of itself. It doesn't add anything new to the process. It just takes what you have, and fills up all the capacity with what you have by being redundant. That redundancy isn't growth. There’s no growth in redundancy. Okay, you've written a story. Now you make a hundred Xerox copies of it. You haven't written a hundred stories. It’s just one story, and there's nothing new created. There's no creativity; there's no advancement. There’s no growth out of just duplicating what you already have. Where there's growth is taking something that hasn't been made up yet and writing a new story. That's where the growth is. So it's not just, “Why doesn’t this executive part just duplicate itself all over, all of its capacity, and then it’s all done. It’s all perfect. Isn’t that what it wants to be “all perfect?” No, that's not the point. The point is in the creation, in the growing, in the becoming Love. That's where the evolution comes from. That’s how it evolves. How it grows into something else, something other than what it is, becomes bigger and greater, and more than it was. That’s evolution. Evolution didn’t evolve a fish and then make duplicate copies. And now there's nothing in the world but fish – just this one kind of fish. There's just a goldfish and that's all. There’s one sterile, not a male and a female even, just one goldfish. And now there’s seven billion goldfish in the world.

Well, what a great leap forward that was! That doesn't get you anywhere. That’s not the point. Evolution doesn't work that way. Evolution is about change. Evolution is about becoming; about becoming more than what you were. So you go from single cell, to multi-cell, to jellyfish, to fish, to reptiles, and so on up. You end up with people, critters, and all sorts of insects, trees, and plants. Well that's what this Larger Consciousness System is doing. It’s in a state of evolution. It’s a real thing, and it's evolving. It's becoming “more.” Just duplicating itself and saying, “it’s done” is of no value. It’s still changing, evolving, and growing. And we’re part of that evolutionary process. All of the capacity doesn't need to be used up through duplication. It needs to be used up through creation, through growth, through becoming. And that's what we're doing. We're becoming Love. We’re growing up. And as we do, the whole system is becoming and growing up with us. As we learn to make these choices, we’re moving the energy, the value, the purpose of this thing to a higher level than it is now. So, it's not that it's perfect, but our growth is help making it more perfect, making it greater than it is. It's evolving and we’re part of that evolution.

It's not a matter of, “It’s perfect. Get rid of all the imperfect parts and we’re done. Why wouldn’t it just do that?” Well, then it’s just, “it,” by itself and it's done. What happens to systems that have no more potential for growth? They start to come apart. If you're not evolving, you’re probably de-evolving. You can’t just sit still and be stable. We know that. If you stop growing you start to come apart. If you say, “I’m done. I don’t want to learn anything else.” You don't just stay right where you were. You started to come apart. You start to dissipate. You're entropy starts drifting upward because you're no longer in a growth process. We have to continually be adding, growing, and evolving. That's what keeps us going - keeps us alive. When we stop growing we get stagnant. And when we get stagnant we don't care. And when we don’t care things start to fall apart. And then we still don't care, and pretty soon we are de-evolved. We disappear. It’s the same with the Larger Consciousness System. It has to keep evolving, growing, and becoming. It has to still be creative. It can't just say “I’m done. I'm pretty perfect right now. So, I’m just going to stay here. I’m just not going to do any more. I’m going to fill up all my ones and zeros with my own wonderful, sublime, perfection. And then I’m done. I’m going to retire and go move to the beach.” That's the beginning of de-evolution. That's when it starts to dissipate and fall apart, and entropy starts to go up. You have to continually be in a creative process of growing. Otherwise you end up in an uncreative process of dissolution.

So, that's why we are in this system. And yes, there is an executive part of it that tends to be the operating system that set the rules, and develops virtual realities. But it's growing with our growth. We're creating. We're developing. And it's not just us, but all of individuated consciousness is evolving. And as we evolve, we evolve to something greater than what it is now. We’re creating another thing. So that's why I say, “If it was perfect, it would be done.” See, this concept that you can have a real system that’s perfect and just sits there, not if it's a complex aware consciousness system. That's about change and growth.

Even if it's just a rock it doesn't just sit there. Little molecules of it fly off and eventually, if you wait long enough, the rock will be nothing but little particles. All through the universe probably, but at least all through the planet even rocks just dissipate if they don't do anything; if you watch long enough. Everything has vapor pressure. Even steel, rocks, and dirt have vapor pressure. What that means is that molecules will, just by chance, get enough energy to separate from the whole and fly off. Everything sublimates. We can see that with an ice cube. If you leave an ice cube in the freezer long enough, the ice cube will get smaller, and smaller, and smaller until it just disappears. What happened to the ice cube? The water molecules, one, two, or three at a time, just happen to get enough energy to fly off. And we never see water, but the ice actually sublimates into vapor and the ice cube just disappears. Everything has a vapor pressure. Steel will do that too. Take a bunch of steel and set it someplace. If you were to wait long enough the steel would work just like the ice cube. It would just eventually disappear.

So things that aren’t growing, things are just static, just sitting there, “Oh, I’m perfect. I just sit here. I’m static.” That's not something that can continue. That’s something that starts to decay. We don't want a perfect system that's “done”; that’s just sitting there “done.” That's not the goal. That wasn't the goal of the multi celled thing to sit there and make seven hundred billion goldfish. That wasn't the answer that evolution found profitable. What it found profitable was to keep growing, changing, doing different things, and creating. And the consciousness system is the same way.

Faith, Religion, and God in the Big Picture
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_bDgox6iqM

or the transcript is here:
viewtopic.php?f=259&t=8460&p=75275&hili ... ure#p75275


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 Post subject: Re: Is Love a Myth?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 7:46 pm 
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Great quote Sainbury, thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Love a Myth?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:11 pm 
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Quote:
Also, the reason I was reading this post in the first place is that I was searching for a explaination of this very confusing love subject as it's used by Tom. He says we evolve to become love; AUM/IUOC is love, etc. But what is happening at that higher level with all this love? I'm leaning toward the thought that it's only the love that we generate that gets "harvested" from each of us. I'm sure Tom has not put it that way, but AUM/IUOC/LCS is supposedly a dispassionate scientist experimenting in various labs. Where does the love go that is generated? What the heck is happening with all this generated love? Or maybe not much has been generated. Any thoughts on that? Has Tom mentioned the ultimate use of this love?
TruthSeeker1,

MBT Love is a state of being. This is not a constant state, but it is evolving all the time. LCS is not perfect, i.e. anything in this PMR is not perfect either, and there is always room for improvement. I remember Robert Monroe in Far Journey has a whole chapter, where he talks about Loosh. Everything in Monroe's book should not be taken literally. Loosh was his metaphor. He received this information and had to digest it. Obviously it was not easy for him.

We receive data all the time. In order to make sense of this data and able to learn from it we have to interpret data, i.e. transform it into information. The same data will be interpreted differently by different people. We base our personal interpretation on our intellectual knowledge, all kind of beliefs, attachments, fears and personal desire to learn.

We are LCS, and you should not be afraid to work for LCS, i.e. reduce entropy and gradually become Love. Love, which majority of us are able to generate, is infinitesimal. The biggest part of our state of being is fear. Therefore moving from fear to Love is not only working for LCS, but helping yourself to become a better person - less fearful, less self centered, able to think about others more often, and etc.

Lena

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 Post subject: Re: Is Love a Myth?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:47 am 
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I think your more traditional and today's use of the word love is thrown around too easily. It is more conditional love. Something needs to be able to fulfill a need for you to love it. Today love in a relationship and a marriage is something where x does this for y, so y loves x and x loves y because y does this for x. It's conditional. It becomes a contract and like any contract it can be broken. That's not love. That's business being done between two people. Too many people see it this way.

Love in the way I believe Tom is trying to define it is much more along the lines of a Buddhists definition in that it's unconditional. In that we love because it is the way it is. People cannot mold someone else into somebody they love. Acceptance is love at it's deepest level. A relationship has a lot more potential when at least one person is this way. It's better when the two just want the other person to be happy. When you feel that way about your partner and they feel that way too is when I believe you have found a great match. It's an even better match when the two people are motivated individuals who are active in lowering their entropy who are evolving and becoming love. To me there is no better match.

Were still a long way towards that as a society. It would be wonderful if we as a society were advertising this as love in the movies and tv shows. You see today's idea of "love" as more fear and ego based. Where you need to fulfill this for me or I'm going to leave you. Where it's "me" based. It's conditional.

The good thing is that there is MBT and other unconditional love based teachings where you have people learning them and becoming aware of consciousness and it's unconditional love based potential. So when one person taps into this then it spreads to the people around them. It's about being a leader by example. It's not about making people love unconditionally because then that becomes conditional. This unconditional love starts from within and then spreads to everybody and everything around them. That is how it is spread.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Love a Myth?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:41 pm 
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Quote:

Scientifically, is there any evidence for it? Where do we see it?
The above questions are from the original post and the questions are about love.

Inane questions above. Love is not observable empirically just as consciousness is not observable empirically but obviously humans experience love. Why does love have to be empirical to be believed in? Do not be absurd, you can feel love.


Last edited by Advaita on Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Love a Myth?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:23 am 
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You have 'waked up' a thread which is 3 1/2 years old with a post quoting something from an unidentified location up the page. You make an inane comment on an what you call an inane statement in this old thread.

Is there any real reason to be doing this and why this post should remain?

Ted


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