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 Post subject: DMT and MBT
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:54 pm 
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I have been reading a lot about the experiments with DMT that theorise that enables travels into the "afterlife". I was wondering what your thoughts were on if and what connection there might be between the DMT experience and the theory that the universe is virtual.


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 Post subject: Re: DMT and MBT
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:13 am 
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There are a lot of 'mind altering' substances that can open a doorway for people to experience other data streams.

Here is what Tom has to say:

It is not that awareness altering drugs can never produce valuable insights, they can, but rather that such drugs are much more likely to become a part of the problem than a part of the solution as you work toward your goal of evolving the quality of your consciousness. Their upside is infinitesimal in comparison to their downside. What constitutes an upside often appears, because of its suddenness, more valuable than it really is.

Drugs do not constitute a shortcut. Drugs do constitute a trap by encouraging you to believe in a phantom upside that does not exist while reducing your ability to precisely control the focus of your awareness. Your consciousness is like a precisely and subtly tuned tool - a delicate instrument - drugs interact with that instrument like a sledgehammer - de-tuning and increasing entropy in exchange for a random big bang.

The probability that you will derive some lasting benefit from a psychotropic drug is inversely proportional to the number of times you use such drugs. There is no free lunch - you only get to keep what you earn. If you have done 95% of the work, the drug may bump you over that last 5% and offer you an "ahh-haaa!" moment. But if you have done only 60 % of the work the drug will only make it harder and take longer for you to accomplish the last 40%.

Expecting drugs to deliver or aid in consciousness evolution is a fool's dream. Primitive societies, who know how to use psychotropic drugs to that end, are trapped at a low level of understanding, functionality, and awareness. You might think that would be better than no understanding, no functionality, and no awareness, but that constitutes a false choice. The price of "easy" is very high. Such people have no idea what they have given up for what they get. Like forgoing a high school, college, and graduate school education so one can spend all of one's time playing on a brightly painted jungle gym in a big sandbox. That will always appear to a 5 year old to be a cool choice. Because indulging in psychotropic drugs over time eliminates other options, it becomes more and more difficult to escape that particular sandbox. In terms of consciousness evolution, a 50 year old stuck in a kindergarten sandbox may be completely normal for our drug saturated culture (both legal and illegal, common and uncommon), but it is sad just the same.


http://www.my-big-toe.com/forums/viewto ... RUGS#p7843


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 Post subject: Re: DMT and MBT
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:31 pm 
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My question was really related to the visions seen in DMT and if and how that might fit with MBT. Here is a particularly powerful description of the experience: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Rhln28YJcg

Also how DMT works in the context of MBT as DMT is a naturally occurring drug released by the brain at the point of death. How could it transfer the mind?


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 Post subject: Re: DMT and MBT
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:51 pm 
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This explanation goes back to the MBT theory, and I don't know how familiar you are with it.

Since this is a virtual reality, consciousness does not reside in the brain. The brain is only a constraint in how we can process the PMR data stream. The PMR ruleset is also a constraint in how we process the PMR data stream. If you have brain damage you cannot interpret the PMR data stream the same way as if you didn't.

So any chemicals that effect the brain effect how we process data. And some chemicals seem to break down the natural barriers we have that keeps us experiencing just the PMR and the dream data streams. DMT is one of those chemicals. And for some people it seems to give them great insight. I speculate that the LCS may take that opportunity to give someone the information they need to move on in their lives. And that is why the experience is so transformative for them. What someone does with that information is much more important the the drug. Because taking psychedelic drug does not help long-term consciousness evolution.
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Also how DMT works in the context of MBT as DMT is a naturally occurring drug released by the brain at the point of death. How could it transfer the mind?
I could find no scientific discussion that has found that DMT is released by the brain at death. Do you have a reference for this?


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 Post subject: Re: DMT and MBT
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:21 am 
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Because taking psychedelic drug does not help long-term consciousness evolution.

I encourage you to revisit this assertion. Psychedelic drug usage has been in the fabric of evolution since the beginning of recorded history. Its use can be traced to the indigenous peoples to this day. The Lakota Indians teach us that consciousness is the only reality. The Shamans make, ingest, and regularly administer Ayahuasca to this day.

There is also evidence to suggest that the Egyptians used psychedelics. As you may know, they may be the origin of the concept of the life review after death called "the weighing of the heart".

As Tom states: Are we a human hallucinating a consciousness or a Consciousness hallucinating a human experience? How you get there is a matter of perception and degree.


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 Post subject: Re: DMT and MBT
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:01 pm 
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Because taking psychedelic drug does not help long-term consciousness evolution.

I encourage you to revisit this assertion. Psychedelic drug usage has been in the fabric of evolution since the beginning of recorded history. Its use can be traced to the indigenous peoples to this day. The Lakota Indians teach us that consciousness is the only reality. The Shamans make, ingest, and regularly administer Ayahuasca to this day.

There is also evidence to suggest that the Egyptians used psychedelics. As you may know, they may be the origin of the concept of the life review after death called "the weighing of the heart".
This is why it interests me so much. What and how these very specific chemicals connect us to the spirit realm and if they are the same spaces as described by MBT and how it connects.

Especially as DMT is naturally occuring in the body. And can be produced not just by the death experience but also in very specific circumstances.


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 Post subject: Re: DMT and MBT
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:49 pm 
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I encourage you to revisit this assertion. Psychedelic drug usage has been in the fabric of evolution since the beginning of recorded history. Its use can be traced to the indigenous peoples to this day. The Lakota Indians teach us that consciousness is the only reality. The Shamans make, ingest, and regularly administer Ayahuasca to this day.
And are Shamans necessarily low entropy? They may get access to NPMR using psychedelic chemicals but that in itself does not lower entropy.

TOM:
Let me assure you that I have never run across any magic pills, charms, substances, crystals, drugs, chants, mediation techniques, books, associations, physical trauma or anything else that somehow automatically induces higher quality consciousness. If you don't earn it, it is not yours to keep. One may occasionally be induced to experience or perform certain psi phenomena, but that is pretty much useless in the big picture unless you also change who you are (grow up). In fact, it becomes counterproductive when induction of altered states and the experience of psi phenomena DIMINISHES or REPLACES the evolutionary goal of raising consciousness quality with the ego goal of shortcuts to cool experiences. The entropy of your consciousness does not decrease even a micro-smidgen because you had a cool psi experience. That’s going about it backwards and leads to nowhere important. If you decrease the entropy of your consciousness sufficiently, then cool psi experiences can become a quite ordinary and natural part of your everyday reality. Chasing shortcuts with too much energy and hopefulness often creates a longcut that is more likely to delay one’s progress than shorten it. Experiment all you want, just don't damage or hamstring yourself in the process, and don't get carried away like a compulsive gambler with your ego’s desires, wants, hopes, and expectations.
http://www.my-big-toe.com/forums/viewto ... RUGS#p2710
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What and how these very specific chemicals connect us to the spirit realm and if they are the same spaces as described by MBT and how it connects.
Especially as DMT is naturally occurring in the body. And can be produced not just by the death experience but also in very specific circumstances.
Again, where is your reference that DMT is produced by the body at death? There really isn't a spirit realm. There are just data streams. Some chemicals lower the natural barriers we have to jumping to other data streams.


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 Post subject: Re: DMT and MBT
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:05 pm 
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Quote:

This is why it interests me so much. What and how these very specific chemicals connect us to the spirit realm and if they are the same spaces as described by MBT and how it connects.

Especially as DMT is naturally occuring in the body. And can be produced not just by the death experience but also in very specific circumstances.
This article makes reference to the work of Dr. Stassman in the 1990's. I did research on his work and watched some of his videos. You might find it of interest:

DMT

My take-away from his work and my own drug free exploration in NPMR is that it is the same spaces.


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 Post subject: Re: DMT and MBT
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:11 pm 
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While shamen's have and do use yage (DMT) to induce experiences, it is also a naturally occurring chemical in the body. Therefore it may be possible for DMT induced experiences are earned as described by Tom and released as a result of practice and as it is released at death serves some purpose in the larger system.

I would be interested to hear from Tom what he thinks and if he knows of how DMT and its effects might link to MBT and the non physical realities.


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 Post subject: Re: DMT and MBT
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:20 pm 
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And are Shamans necessarily low entropy? They may get access to NPMR using psychedelic chemicals but that in itself does not lower entropy.

TOM:
Let me assure you that I have never run across any magic pills, charms, substances, crystals, drugs, chants, mediation techniques, books, associations, physical trauma or anything else that somehow automatically induces higher quality consciousness. If you don't earn it, it is not yours to keep. One may occasionally be induced to experience or perform certain psi phenomena, but that is pretty much useless in the big picture unless you also change who you are (grow up). In fact, it becomes counterproductive when induction of altered states and the experience of psi phenomena DIMINISHES or REPLACES the evolutionary goal of raising consciousness quality with the ego goal of shortcuts to cool experiences. The entropy of your consciousness does not decrease even a micro-smidgen because you had a cool psi experience. That’s going about it backwards and leads to nowhere important. If you decrease the entropy of your consciousness sufficiently, then cool psi experiences can become a quite ordinary and natural part of your everyday reality. Chasing shortcuts with too much energy and hopefulness often creates a longcut that is more likely to delay one’s progress than shorten it. Experiment all you want, just don't damage or hamstring yourself in the process, and don't get carried away like a compulsive gambler with your ego’s desires, wants, hopes, and expectations.
http://www.my-big-toe.com/forums/viewto ... RUGS#p2710
Your response and references to Tom are not specific to Shamanism or the inluence of indigenous spirituality over the millennia. Provide a link to Tom's discussion that is specific to my statement. Tom's top down approach has as its foundation said influence.


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 Post subject: Re: DMT and MBT
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:32 pm 
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There really isn't a spirit realm. There are just data streams. Some chemicals lower the natural barriers we have to jumping to other data streams.
This is like saying there is no PMR. PMR, NPMR, data streams, spirit realms, earth are all metaphors for alternate realities. A spirit realm is a VR NPMR. The rehab center visited after death is VR PMR.


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 Post subject: Re: DMT and MBT
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:08 am 
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Some chemicals lower the natural barriers we have to jumping to other data streams.
How do chemicals, which are molecules, made of atoms, which are made of protons, electrons, neutrons , made of quarks, leptons etc. which are only virtual in nature constitute the raising or lowering of barriers to anything that is real?

Where is this rule set who denies my existence?


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 Post subject: Re: DMT and MBT
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:10 am 
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There really isn't a spirit realm. There are just data streams. Some chemicals lower the natural barriers we have to jumping to other data streams.
This is like saying there is no PMR. PMR, NPMR, data streams, spirit realms, earth are all metaphors for alternate realities. A spirit realm is a VR NPMR. The rehab center visited after death is VR PMR.
There is no FUNDAMENTAL difference between PMR and NPMR. They are both spirit realms, dream worlds.

You are dreaming right now. And when you sleep you dream, when you dream you sleep.

You may choose which or whatever you prefer to be what you consider to be your home reality but it is you that is determining it. It is always YOU! 🙏 namaste.


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 Post subject: Re: DMT and MBT
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:23 am 
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There really isn't a spirit realm. There are just data streams. Some chemicals lower the natural barriers we have to jumping to other data streams.
This is like saying there is no PMR. PMR, NPMR, data streams, spirit realms, earth are all metaphors for alternate realities. A spirit realm is a VR NPMR. The rehab center visited after death is VR PMR.
There is no FUNDAMENTAL difference between PMR and NPMR. They are both spirit realms, dream worlds.

You are dreaming right now. And when you sleep you dream, when you dream you sleep.

You may choose which or whatever you prefer to be what you consider to be your home reality but it is you that is determining it. It is always YOU! 🙏 namaste.
According to MBT theory there is a fundamental difference between PMR and NPMR. According to Tom, the IUOC (pick a metaphor) accumulates experience and evolves. The FWAU is a piece of the IUOC's essence at the being level (subconscious) but it does not have consciousness until it is plugged into a VR PMR. Franz Bardon and Charles Handaal concur: "the subconscious needs time and space (PMR) for its realization". This concept also appears in Aboriginal wisdom; our origins manifested from "dream walkers" (subconscious-subjective). You will also find this in Seth.


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 Post subject: Re: DMT and MBT
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:48 am 
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This is like saying there is no PMR. PMR, NPMR, data streams, spirit realms, earth are all metaphors for alternate realities. A spirit realm is a VR NPMR. The rehab center visited after death is VR PMR.
There is no FUNDAMENTAL difference between PMR and NPMR. They are both spirit realms, dream worlds.

You are dreaming right now. And when you sleep you dream, when you dream you sleep.

You may choose which or whatever you prefer to be what you consider to be your home reality but it is you that is determining it. It is always YOU! 🙏 namaste.
According to MBT theory there is a fundamental difference between PMR and NPMR. According to Tom, the IUOC (pick a metaphor) accumulates experience and evolves. The FWAU is a piece of the IUOC's essence at the being level (subconscious) but it does not have consciousness until it is plugged into a VR PMR. Franz Bardon and Charles Handaal concur: "the subconscious needs time and space (PMR) for its realization". This concept also appears in Aboriginal wisdom; our origins manifested from "dream walkers" (subconscious-subjective) You will also find this in Seth.
Well...there is no fundamental difference between PMR and NPMR. YOU have Consciousness no matter what you do. You are your IUOC at the being level. Your IUOC is conscious no matter what it’s plugged into even if it’s not plugged into anything(free will). Time and space are a byproduct of the experience of consciousness. Who Am I to argue with Hans and Franz? Let alone aboriginal wisdom. I like Seth, I consider him a good buddy of mine. :)


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