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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:07 am 
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Bob used the terms "physical matter reality" and "non-physical mater reality" and for a long time I didn't like the terminology because I thought that it was redundant. Then I realized that he was trying to differentiate between two types of reality that both contained matter from the viewpoints of observers within their own reality frames.

The point of using this terminology is to use language that emphasizes that one reality frame is not matter while the other one (the one you are not in) is more like imaginary smoke. Both reality frames have an equal claim to being realities based on matter (actually virtual matter) -- and appear that way to their own residents. And both appear to be nonphysical to residents of the other...
... From the belief that there is physical reality and nothing else comes the belief that the term "physical matter" is a hopelessly redundant tautology.

Your reality is defined by your beliefs and fears more than anything else.

In summary: There is only consciousness and data - reality is information: All matter is virtual and thus only exists from the point of view of a given consciousness absorbing a particular data stream. "Physical matter" refers to matter that appears physical to a particular observer, while "non-physical matter" refers to matter that appears nonphysical to the same observer)

Tom
Sorry to belabour the point, Tom (and at the grave risk of appearing pedantic), but I still don't see it that way (and despite what you say, I don't think I believe that physical reality is all there is). To use your terminology, if I am in one PMR and look from here into another PMR (or, in your terms, NPMR because of my observational reference) - then the "matter" in the second (N)PMR will surely seem both non-physical and non-material (ghost-like, if I may use the analogy). If, however, I transferred to the second PMR, wouldn't the matter there seem both Physical and Material? It boils down to the definition of physical and material: to me they mean the same. Therefore I don't see why we couldn't refer to the NPMR as simply non-physical (but still real): NPR? Obviously, for a native of that second reality, it would be a physical reality as our own is to us.

And yes, I think I understand the higher truth that physical and material are local effects and are really constructs of consciousness; information arranged in such a way as to be experienced as material reality in a given framework.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:20 am 
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kamarling,

Perform the experiment: go there and perform your own testing. Experience it for yourself. Then come back and tell us what you then think after the actual experience. Will a useful purpose be filled by this discussion until then? Expressing things that are not expressible naturally in a language like English is very difficult if not impossible. No PMR language is built for this purpose. The words and ideas are simply not there. The expression in language symbols will never equal the actual experience.

Ted


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:23 am 
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kamarling,

This could be similar to forming a committee to study how to keep the horse from getting loose after its running free in the next county. Whether your logic is better than the author's on terminology, or not, the books are printed. Smile every time you see PMR on the page, and read the book. A year from now it won't make any difference. Besides, you only have to use PMR when you're in the forum, or just spell out your own terms.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:45 am 
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This is one of those examples when I feel I shouldn't have mentioned anything in the first place. However, having done so and having had some responses, it took on a life of its own so I followed the thread where it led. It really doesn't "matter". If I have ruffled some sensibilities, I apologise.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:59 am 
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This is one of those examples when I feel I shouldn't have mentioned anything in the first place. However, having done so and having had some responses, it took on a life of its own so I followed the thread where it led. It really doesn't "matter". If I have ruffled some sensibilities, I apologise.
Ha! It's all relative to you're own intent. I wouldn't spend much time worrying about ruffling sensibilities here. Most topics on this forum are too difficult to define clearly with words and misunderstandings are highly likely. Just say what you're thinking, maintain decent intent, and go on. No worries. The big task before you, now, is getting through an 800+ pp. book full of acronyms. =)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:50 am 
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kamarling,

This is a place where ruffling sensibilities is not only permitted but encouraged -- as long as it is serving your honest intent to discover and illuminate the truth. There is no rule here that we all have to agree -- especially when it comes to barely relevant details. Personal growth is, after all, personal. Your take on the nature of reality and the words and metaphors that best describe that understanding, will necessarily be personal to you. If in sharing our personal visions we find common Big Truths, then that is what these forums are all about. Your opinion is as valuable as anyone's, don't be hesitant to share it and don't expect agreement or disagreement. Polite and respectful open minded skepticism is the rule here. There is no conformity imposed. Hang on to your own viewpoint until you have gathered enough evidence to change it.

Tom C


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:07 am 
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I wonder if there is a book called, "Metaphor as Metaphor"? I have a book called "Physics as Metaphor", bty. I have an idea for a book entitled, "Tag, You're I.T." already. It's all about nonphysical digital information systems...:)...
Love
Bette

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what is?
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:42 am 
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Well, Jim Elvidge is going to be on Coast to Coast AM, again, on Wed., 25 March. I think that if they can give Elvidge a 2nd go round, then they should give Tom equal billing.
Elvidge had another interview the day before yesterday, here it is on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBz0fgB0 ... playnext=1

This book is mentioned in the interview: "Consciousness Beyond Life" http://www.harpercollins.com/browseinsi ... 0061777257


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:12 pm 
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Thanks Lynda. I detected this:
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Your opinion is as valuable as anyone's, don't be hesitant to share it and don't expect agreement or disagreement. Polite and respectful open minded skepticism is the rule here. There is no conformity imposed.
I hope one day it becomes a reality here. It may require the will of many.

Claudio

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"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

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