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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:50 am 
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I used to argue with my mom when I was very young, also with other people, .... I know some people might not understand that sometimes you may argue with somebody but care about that person as well. ... I don't see so bad to create some learning opportunity instead of just "love". ... Making somebody evolve by giving him/her a hard time might be a positive, egoless action, believe it or not. The LCS encourages (attracts you) to these learning situations. keeping your pets comfortable, with all their needs so that they don't have to make any efforts might not be after all a "loving" action, because it won't help their evolution. Claudio
Thank you for making it so clear why you are the way you are. Personally, I prefer the loving, supportive environment Tom speaks of and provides, to Claudio Soprano's "School of Hard Knocks"


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:58 am 
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Arguing isn't love it's ego.

Fantastic seminar Tom. I really enjoyed it and learned a lot. It was also great getting to interact with everyone.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:29 am 
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Yes, great show yesterday, and very nice chatting with many of you! Those of us in Europe crawled into bed in broad daylight, but it was well worth it.

No matter how many times I see the workshops or the videos, always another aspect or way of thinking about the subject results, and progress in 'feeling' this whole concept is made. That's the way it should be, of course.

As at the London event, I was again very pleased (blown away was my first reaction!) with the exercise results I got last night, and others among the webcast viewers and in the Hawaii audience also did well, too.

I echo the thanks of others to all those involved in arranging and producing the whole thing.

Arthur

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:47 am 
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Arguing isn't love it's ego.
Silence, can be also no love and fear. Sometimes, if you don't get dirty you won't learn. Keeping your hands clean and not touching anything may make your evolution slow.

Claudio

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:57 am 
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Do you equate learning with lowering your entropy? I've said it before - loving the nuts and bolts of MBT without practicing the love part will not get you anywhere. Look at the intent behind the words. It is not kindness and loving. It is challenging filled with ego.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:31 am 
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Arguing isn't love it's ego.
Silence, can be also no love and fear. Sometimes, if you don't get dirty you won't learn. Keeping your hands clean and not touching anything may make your evolution slow.

Claudio
Your evolution seems quite stable Claudio, no worries, right?
Love
Bette

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:20 am 
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Do you equate learning with lowering your entropy? I've said it before - loving the nuts and bolts of MBT without practicing the love part will not get you anywhere. Look at the intent behind the words. It is not kindness and loving. It is challenging filled with ego.
Sainbury:

It seems to me you are not undertanding. It is your assumption I am not practicing the love part. You don't know me. I don't know you either. It is pointless to generalize, like you are trying to do. If you focus on kindness and loving without trying to change for the better, you are not taking full advantage of this PMR VR learning opportunities. I don't know if you read about the different paths for evolution. One of them is the "warrior path", which Tom and I are choosing for the most part of it. I follow the other paths as well, but I like the "warrior path". My Intent won't change if I try to use other words, the Intent is at the being level. You won't change your intent if you don't get involved (stay without participating). The filled with ego thing is your assumption. Learning and a fearless attitude is not ego. By the way, you didn't make any comments about my post regarding silence. Your focus on only one aspect of my post might be a sign of your ego. Egoless intent is towards learning, not towards personal stuff.

Claudio

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> http://soprano.com <


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:25 am 
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Your evolution seems quite stable Claudio, no worries, right?
Love
Bette
Bette:

If you really care about others (in this case me), you should try to make an effort to be more explicit. Can you expand? I don't understand what you mean? I consider my evolution very dynamic, and I think that is positive. One bad thing to assume is that you already learned something when you really did not. PMR interactions are good. Ted and Tom posted a lot about this aspect.

Claudio

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> http://soprano.com <


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:27 am 
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Once he starts on the "you don't know me" and "we are different" path, the path ends pretty much per my experience, although you may be the one that lets Claudio get us too, rather than what keeps happening.
Love
Bette

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:30 am 
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Claudio you thinking that progress can be made by behaving in an unloving manner is very irritating to those of us who think that way of going about life is BS. Is that what others that are involved here think too?
Love
Bette

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:42 am 
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Clau:

I believe that Tom has said many time that no one needs any of the MBT or metaphysical information to lower their entropy. You are the one equating the two as being necessary - which they aren't. I only know you by what you write. It seems to me that you are very controlling. It takes one to know one because I am trying to work my way out of that myself. I too used to be very argumentative. I found it to be counter productive in the long run.

I think you are missing the "love" part. If you focus on kindness and loving you are changing for the better because that is the end goal - not the best understanding of MBT you can manage. I don't know why you think Tom takes the "warrior path?" He seems like an infinitely kind and generous person. Even with the most novice questioners last night he showed them respect and kindness. He made sure he answered every one's questions thoroughly and never made anyone feel stupid. He never showed an attitude of self importance that he knew more than they did. Is this the "warrior's path?"

Intent doesn't have anything to do with whether you get involved on the board or not. Someone could be a paragon of virtue and kindness in their personal life and choose to look at posts on the board without participating. Whether you participate or not may not have anything to do with how much you change. Someone could have a personal epiphany by reading something without ever participating. You can't force people to participate by telling them they won't evolve if they don't. Correct me if I'm wrong, but who died and made you the Big Cheese? Only kidding.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:51 am 
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Sainbury,

Here is a thread in which Tom discusses the 'warrior's path' which is more often and commonly known as the path of knowledge. There are two other paths in this point of view, the path of service and the path of surrender. This thread: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3247&p=7355&hilit=w ... path#p7355 has Tom's comments on these paths.

Ted


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:00 am 
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Thank you Ted it was very enlightening. What Tom is saying is the "warrior's path is an eyeball to eyeball confrontation with ones fears." It is self knowledge for learning a path toward love by overcoming your own fears.

And certainly Tom has also been on the path of service for quite some time now. He gives his time to numerous podcasts and seminars giving a lecture with the same basic information. And answers beginners' questions over and over. This is definitely service.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:50 pm 
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I can say that "arguing" is high entropy for sure. How do I know? because I use to be the KING of arguing, hehe...Arguing stems from the ego, because it's the "want or need to be right"...If one feels the need to argue so that the other person can see things MY WAY, it's still EGO....There's something deep down inside that person that makes them want to be right and to make sure the other person knows that they are right.


We are all guilty of arguing from time to time, and I'm sure we will all admit that. I just know that I use to be the king of arguing, and I've improved quite a bit since then. Now I tend to come to a place where I'm very interested in what someone has to say, and if I think they may be wrong, I try my best to just let it go, because I'm the one that could be wrong...Even if it's something obvious, I still try and let it go and don't push the point. I don't live inside their brain, and they don't live inside mine, so I really don't have a right to think that I'm right and they are wrong.

Arguging is one of the toughest aspects of the EGO to defeat, but I know that some of the most loving low entropy people I've been around, don't have an argumentative bone in their body. They are just very relaxed and don't feel the obessive need to want or need to be right...You can tell by just being around them, that they get it.....


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 3:59 pm 
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vestal nice photo :)


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