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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:12 pm 
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yes Faisal,

Rumi has inspired me towards growth, and self examination, which (in my humble opinion) is the ultimate purpose, and the optimal result of all religious traditions.

In my research I have found a core similarity in all religious tradition to inspire men (and women) to grow (spiritually) and in the words of Tom Campbell "to pull themselves up by their bootstraps"

But do'nt take my word for it do your own search, seek your own answers;

“Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.” ~Buddha~

or in MBT terms be skeptical (and open minded)



Love is the answer

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LOVE is the answer

peace
patrick


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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 9:45 am 
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Just a little update. Life has kept me very busy lately with school and little ones running around, but I have not forgotten about getting the fireside chat on youtube. Things have changed slightly now because Tom's youtube channel is allotted more time than the now fading limit of 15 minutes. I had been putting the fireside chat into 18 different sections to fit the 15 minute limit, but am now working on putting together 3 (maybe 4) parts. I hesitate to proved an estimated date of completion, but it is not far off.

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-"You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you might find... you get what you need"


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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 9:48 am 
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Just a little update. Life has kept me very busy lately with school and little ones running around, but I have not forgotten about getting the fireside chat on youtube. Things have changed slightly now because Tom's youtube channel is allotted more time than the now fading limit of 15 minutes. I had been putting the fireside chat into 18 different sections to fit the 15 minute limit, but am now working on putting together 3 (maybe 4) parts. I hesitate to proved an estimated date of completion, but it is not far off.
This will be great. I need hour 2 on YouTube as what I have it on now makes stopping and starting it too hard to transcribe. Thank you Justin.
Love
Bette

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 9:58 am 
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I just needed it to not be God.
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I finished MBT some months ago and it has had a profound effect on my life, it pulled together so much for me. Also while reading it I had the feeling of being lifted on the shoulders of a giant for an astonishing view of reality. I take my hat off to Tom for having the courage to write such an amazing tome, not to mention the dedication and the skill to pull it off. ...I don't post much as some much of what I going through I just cannot translate into words.
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Just a little update. Life has kept me very busy lately with school and little ones running around, but I have not forgotten about getting the fireside chat on youtube. .... I hesitate to proved an estimated date of completion, but it is not far off.
Justin, thanks for the reminder. Having lost my job on Thursday, with not much else to do than get Ducks in a Row these days, I am ready to begin finishing the work I started, transcribing Hour One.

Tom has put me in contact with a fellow Index-Builder, but so far my obligation to the project has been minimal.

I'm proofreading a CT psychic's website in exchange for a longer session when I drive down to see her June 1st.

I hesitate to give a deadline as I do not like that term, but I am hopeful and confident the transcription of Hour One will be ready by the time Paul and I drive to Cincy for our family reunion mid-July.

Love,
Lynda

Edit 06/14/11@11:25AM:
Here is what I've got so far in case someone wants to pick up this ball and run with it:


Runi: This question is about going from the playground or backyard of exploration of consciousness to something more. I want to proceed from going to a more personal and private reality like the lucid dreams or Out of Body Experience to a shared NPMR reality frame… for example the transition zone in OS. How should one proceed to take that step?
TC: Ok so the question is how do you go from just (kind of) zipping around and experiencing whatever comes to you to experiencing what it is you intend to experience or experience something that’s more coherent than just a series of probably unrelated adventures? Do I have your question correct, Runi?

Runi: Ya for example, if I am in a lucid dream and I went to a reality frame with other conscious beings, not just dream characters. Try to move away from this totally personal reality to a more shared reality – Ya um, I have a bit of difficulty with that (lately).
TC: OK the way to do that is you have to build up experience and be able to <<sigh>> refine the way you translate the data that you get. In other words, talking with another person, interacting with other people is not the same as interacting with people here in this physical reality. It’s a different kind of interaction. And if you have expectations of it being similar to here, those expectations will get in the way and you won’t be able to actually communicate very effectively because it will be at odds with what you’re expecting. In other words it will be at odds with your beliefs.
So, one is to understand that it’s very different it’s not like a bunch of entities sitting around, it’s not like hi Joe how’s the wife and kids, it’s not like that.
All your communications tend to be paragraph and they’re not as linear as our speech is. For one, you tend to get whole concepts, whole chapters at a time, which takes a little getting used to. And the other thing is that the communications in the larger consciousness system tend to be more at the being level than at the intellectual level. We tend to communicate almost exclusively at the intellectual level with our intellects and we communicate at the being level often with our feelings.
So when you get into a more serious or a little more, (I guess) deeper sense of communication, realize you’re getting whole chapters at a time so you have to take things with a big brush, don’t look for the detail like you’d get in a normal conversation. If you’re looking for all the little logical detail that kinda leads up to something it typically doesn’t happen that way. It can happen that way, it’s not that that’s impossible. Entities… you can, with some practice and with an entity who really cares about communicating with you can develop detail that almost appears like our speech. But you’ll find that it’s kind of ratty speech most of the time, not real fluid. It kind of comes in bursts and starts with big bites.
But you’re communicating at the being level and what this means is that it’s not about so much ‘He said, She said’ and “What’s going on here?” and explain details to me as it is just a trading of data, big conceptual chunks.
That’s why in the larger reality we very seldom run into entities that have names. Typically you just, …interact with them. You know who they are by I guess in, back to our language, we say by their feel (I don’t know I guess it’s hard to put that into words) you just know who they are and you know when you see them again. It’s obvious without the typical (you know) “I’m George” and George are you out there. Now, you can make up your own names to help you focus your attention therefore to meet them and to find them again. Call them George if you want and then in your mind say I wanna go speak to George and you will.
But it’s not because his name is George. That’s just a trick of your own to give that entity an identity that you can use in your intellect to help focus your mind.
So the communication in the larger consciousness system is more at the being level which doesn’t mean that it has to be just feelings, it’s also information, it’s data but it’s just in a way that’s at a level usually deeper than the intellect. You just know. You get it in big pieces. So part of the problem people have when they want to get into this communication is that they tend to define it in their mind to be very similar to the communication in this reality frame and that is a big restriction. It still can be done and when I was first communicating, you’ve heard some of those Explorer tapes. I was basically in that mode as well. I needed to get data in a intellectual logical sequence, because that’s the way I dealt with data and I did get data that way. But eventually you kind of graduate from that and it becomes a more holistic exercise than exchanging logic, linear metaphors.
Does that help?

Runi: Yes it does but I have one related question.
Tom: OK
Runi: If I wanted to visit a reality frame that I have not been in before would that be a problem or how would I get there?
Tom: (laughs) Yes that would be a problem, you can’t get to a reality frame that you haven’t been there before unless you’ve heard about it, you can identify it some way, or someone takes you there. Otherwise you don’t know it exists and if you don’t know it exists, then you cannot focus your intent in such a way as to get there.
Now you can do, uh, like the little thing that comes up on Google sometimes that says “I’m feeling lucky”.
You can sometimes let it up to the larger system as to where to go and often that larger system will take you a place that has particular interest for you in the sense that it offers opportunity for you.
So in that case you kind of just have that intent to go wherever there is the most opportunity for you to learn things that you need to learn and to have whatever experience gives you that opportunity and that larger system will take you to a place that has interest for you in the sense that there’s opportunity for you to learn whatever it is you need to learn
And the larger system
And then just be open
And I’ve found that you will end up places
Where there is the most opportunity for you to learn what it is you need to learn
And to have whatever experience they think might be useful

So that’s one way is just getting there because someone else takes you there and I would put that in the class of somebody else takes you there even though you
But a lot of the realities I’ve
The guides, larger system, higher self, all those metaphors
Will find a situation that they think I need to experience and then bingo, I’m in there and I’m
Drawing the wild card if you will and letting the larger system take you somewhere
It gives them permission if you will dropping you into a
Because someone else takes you there and I would put that in a class of someone else taking you there
Guides larger system higher self all those things that describe our interface
Even though you can’t know ahead of time exactly where they’re taking you

But a lot of the realities I’ve been to

Guides

Describe our interface with the larger system will find a situation that it is I need to experience and bingo, I’m there and I’m in the situation and then I need to interact with it and discover what it’s all about and see what there is for me to learn. So that is probably how I’ve gotten to a lot of the out of the way off the beaten track kinds of places Where I talk about in my lectures there are some places that are really mean spirited and you wouldn’t want to go there, there are some pl.aces that are just the opposite of that and I’ve been shown a Lot of places just to give me that breadth of experience that I would have some sense of how this larger reality is. So in that capacity of saying I wanna understand the big picture, what’s out there, what are the extremes,
What’s out there what can happen what are the possibilities
What are the extremes, what can happen? What are the possibilities?

And then over the course of
I see the extremes. And I’ve been in places that
Show me what the extremes are and how it functions

So a lot of it has to do with your intent
It’s not so much where you want to go. It’s not place focused as it is event focused. It’s what are your goals.
tent
It’s not PLACE focused as it is EVENT focused
What do you want to experience, what is your goal. And if you use goals rather than places then you actually DO have an intent there, and you’ll end up at those places that give you the information you need to meet your goals.

Runi: Ya that actually sounds like a great approach, especially for a beginner.
Tom: See we tend to do things like we do here and here if you want to go someplace you have to get directions. You have to know where you’re going. You can’t just kinda wander off and say I don’t know where I’m going but I guess I’ll get there
Unthinkable but that’s sort of the way you have to do it in the larger system. it’s not an obvious approach

Runi: Thanks for the answers Tom
Tom: You’re welcome

Justin: William had a fairly related question in that it has to do with Non physical matter reality and having occupations within that realm

William: Yes so recently I read this book from Michael Newton called Journey of Souls and in this one he mentioned that in NPR people…entities could choose certain occupations for themselves like specialized for instance as a guide, as a healer, creator of new identities or whatever Entities could choose some kind of occupations for themselves for instance as a guide, as a healer, as a creator of new ideas
Is this something that you have some insights to share on this please
TC: Yes, that does happen and I am a little familiar with that book because interesting enough oh I don’t know probably 7 years ago when I first ran into Ted, Ted Vollers, he was one of the first people one of the first few dozens of persons to get sets of the books, and he had read Michael Newton’s Journey of Souls and he was very excited about it and interested in it to the point that I think he sent me the book and wanted to know what I thought about it
And I read it, you know, someone sends you a book
I read it quickly, then I gave Ted kind of a long explanation of what I thought about it and so on.
So that’s a question you can ask Ted sometime, what did Tom tell you about the Journey of the Souls by Michael Newton, but anyhow yes, you can get to a place where learning is done by experiencing and by basically taking a job, by working at some of these things. And it’s not so much that they’re in dire need of labor and that’s why you get put in the job as it is, it’s a learning experience for you to understand better how the system works not by being lectured about it or being shown a diagram
But by working in it, by being a part of it, and when you are a part of it like that it makes a whole lot more sense to you.
Early on I was given some jobs in dealing with transitions
Early on I was given some jobs in dealing with transitions to the from the nonphysical from the earth physical and basically this went on for some time where I would be out in the larger reality and kind of give the idea that OK, what would be good for me to do and I would be given these jobs it was almost like getting up and going to work except it was happening at nighttime you know, like going to bed and going to work at these places and Yes that can happen and it can happen
More likely it happens like Michael Newton says after you leave here And now you’re in the nonphysical
And at the very beginnings of the evolution of consciousness no you’re not gonna do that sort of thing
You’re gonna jump in, jump out jump back in to the PMR game and you’re not gonna do that unrtil that becomes a more effective way of learning and of the choice and then you’ll get to be not only
One of the customers standing in line
Having an adventure or watching a film But you actually become part of the staff and help work the thing
But again it’s a job designed just to help you see what’s going on so it’s not really a real job you’re just pretending you’re part of the staff at Disneyland
Well no not really you’re really there, you’re really interacting
How much that interaction is fed to you like a dream, how much is actually
It depends
But it’s another kind of classroom another reality that’s helpful for seeing big pictures.
William So one is not stuck in one particular position so for instance I choose to be a guide and that’s what I’m gonna be
So it’s essentially based on you get to do it until you’ve learned what you need to learn from it

You kind of get put in that position where What about the guides? Are the guides different? Are they full-time employees of Disneyland? Or are they in and out like we are and they, they do it, in one way you can look at it, in one sense, that this is their job
They’re like us in the sense that this is their job, They’re not all as compentent, at the same level of competence and they don’t have the same level of interest but they[re not, they’re not really like oh, what we would call ourselves to be like free entities

A lot of the guiding isn’t independent entites at all

The LCS needs to interface with you because it needs to help you needs to be in the form of a person interacting with you because that’s the only way you know how to interact. You’re not going to talk to the burning bush or a talking rock because that doesn’t compute for you so when you need aan interface, when the LCS needs to give you some guidance, it comes in the form of a Human being, because that’s how you get information

Uses that to interact with you
Now that doesn’t mean every time the LCS needs to interact with you it runs and grabs a new metaphor
It doesn’t because trust
Same individuals time and time agin They become your guides they become your guides

How much of that interaction is fed to you like a dream
Another sort of classroom Another sort of activity that is helpful for seeing big pictures
So one is not stuck in a particular position like for example
I would choose to be a guide and that’s what I’m going to be

TC: No
So it’s essentially based off
And then once you’ve learned what you need to learn from it
Are they different? Are they just guides? Are they full-time employees at Disneyland or
Particularly when you use the metaphor of guides
In the sense that this is their job. And they’re all not as competent, at the same level of competence
They all don’t have the same level of interest
So it is sort of like a job for them
But on the other hand They’re not really, oh what we would call
We’re on this growth path and we make choices and
A lot of the guiding really isn’t independent entities at all it’s just your interface with the larger system
So the way it does thatBecause it needs to help you It needs to help you evolve So it does that in the form of a person because that’s the only way you know how to interact
You know, you’re not going to talk to the burning ush or the talking rock because that doesn’t compute for you so

It appears in the form of a being because that’s what you talk to, that’s how you get information and you reject anything else and that’s a metaphore that suits you so the LCS uses that metaphor it uses

It’s not like the Lcs randomly grabs a new metaphor
With the same metaphor of the same
Level of
Consistency
The same metaphor or the same individuals time and time again

And they become your guides and you can say things Oh remember the time and yeah they’ll remember it

But it’s still just an interface with the LCS
We think of it as a being that’s up there and it’s his job is to give us help
We tend to turn it into something that’s familiar to us because that’s the only thing we can talk to
And if it’s a being then it has to go home at night and watch TV, it has a wife and children somewhere
And it goes to work and this is its job because that’s our concept of beings, So you see
We put it in that form but really that’s just your interface to the larger consciousness system. The larger consciousness system wants you to succeed because your evolution is its evolution your lower entropy is its lower entropy. So we’re the, we’re kinda the evolution engine, if you will, and it’s not just us but other entities, we’re the evolution engine and in order to make that more efficient the system wants us to succeed. Now the system can’t just jump us to the finish line. Obviously that doesn’t lower anybody’s entropy or learn anything so a person has to do it by themselves they have to pull themselves up by their bootstraps not get pulled up by the bootstraps It’s not an intellectual process
So the system can’t just jump you to the answer or whisper the answers to the test in your ear, that’s of no value, you won’t learn anything that way.
So the system has to let you alone, give you a little advice and nudging to the extent that you’re capable of receiving it.
So if the whole idea of guides and gods and the LCS is ridiculous then you’re not going to get this interface. Then your interface will come, maybe it comes in the form of Intuition that just comes out of the blue, you know, bold out of the blue intuition without any metaphor attached to it other than intuition Because that’s all you can deal with. Otherwise, if you can interact at a more personal level, then you can get a more personal interface. So the guide is just a more personal interface for those who are able to interface that way. Which is good because now you can actually have conversation you can trade ideas it’s a lot more personal and a lot more bandwidth than sort of just waiting for bolts of blue to come out of nowhere.
So it’s kind of another step up on the rung of evolution
The form of your help becomes more direct and more personal and the more you evolve the more direct and more personal it gets. So that’s kind of the short story of guides…Your higher self is the same way. Your higher self is not a being on a cloud a little higher than yours than you that watches over you and gives you hints it’s basically another kind of interface with the Larger System. It’s the interface that you might say it’s kind of the mirror of you in which you can see yourself. It’s the bigger picture of You and that’s, you’re a subset of it. You’re a subset of all of it.
And you see the way more I’m giving these descriptions the more you can see yes we all are One Well I’m an individual and I have a higher self and I don’t know Higher self belongs to Oh I don’t know whatever you may think is Oversoul and then that’s part of the larger consciousness system
We have all these layers and the layers are basically metaphors, they’re all just interfaces with the LCS We are all one

So the larger consciousness system needs to evolve and it can do that using subsets that interact
So you bubble out a subset of its self
With other such bubbled up sub-selfs
And then maybe that bubbled up subself decides that it wants to enroll part of itself in a virtual reality like our PMR so then that’s, you get bubbled up into that and then shoot, you know, even that guy that’s part of our PMR and he starts playing World of Warcraft or something it’s what do we call it a consciousness evolution process fractal. So you can see it’s just a fractal pattern repeating with the LCS kind of being the root and then there are (kind of) virtual realities where pieces of it are its characters and then that character which you might call your higher self or oversoul then that character actually takes some of its attention into a lower level simulation if you will, another virtual reality And that may be our PMR. And then that PMR character can go in and create within another VR another subset of which it’s the consciousness
And IT gives the character intuition and where to go and run or fight or such things see that’s really simple. But now let’s say that we’re maybe 50 years ahead of ourselves and World of Warcraft actually has actually figured out how to produce video games where the characters actually have enough of the right qualities to become conscious. Ok, now you play your characters in that game
That are actually conscious characters in that server so is that really so different? So are you the higher self? Are you the higher self, and those characters that you’re playing, are they like you are now?
And so on it goes and then perhaps that virtual reality will have its
So maybe I’m taking this to the ridiculous But you see it’s a fractal kind of system so we’re a part of this fractal pattern.
William: OK
Tom: Have I just confused everyone? It’s kind of silent out there have I dug too deep to where everyone’s lost by the side of the road?
Justin: I’m still with you, I had my mike on mute I get a little confused, um maybe you can mention the idea of little c and big C and how they relate to each other and I was thinking the other day how sometimes when I’m in a lucid dream or Out of Body or even if I’m just meditating and I have
Some of the limitations that I normally have are kind of removed to some degree it seems like I’m kind of acting like I’m the owner of the dog and the dog at the same time

TC: Sure. You are!

Justin: It’s a little bit silly because I’m the dog and I should be able to function better because I understand that but at the same time I still get caught in the ruts of the usual ruts of everyday PMR life I guess you would say.

TC: But then that’s the point of you’re the owner, creating a virtual reality, participating in a VR and having a dog. The point is, that dog then, by the choices they make, as they struggle with the ruts and the everyday life of PMR get to lower entropy get to grow up Get to pull themselves up by the bootstraps and as they do the whole system improves by it so it’s just a, it’s a way of evolving more quickly.

PMRs are kind of like fast tracks to evolution. It’s where you work hard at doing it right and growing up and it’s valuable. It’s not just, the game is a real game in the sense that it has real consequences … whether you fail or not to evolve makes a difference to the system. And the system is doing this just to give you those opportunities.
But the system can’t come in and show you answers because that ruins the ability of that being to grow up so yes you are the dog and the owner and the owner’s owner.
And sometimes you get to the owner’s owner and that’s that time when you go into that meditation state and you get to the void and then suddenly, you, everything becomes
The metaphor is white light and one with the belonging and you just get a sense of belonging
One with everything and you just feel the love, feel that whole, big picture and now you’re shaking hands with the owner’s owner. So, you get to experience all of those because it’s really all just consciousness and you’re all of it.
But here you are with a pick in the salt mine trying to pull yourself up by you bootstraps and trying to lower your entropy, of the whole system and of yourself. And eventually, the more you catch on and the more you understand the quicker you get at it the better you get at it
Youre gonna evolve more in this next year than in the last three or four years
You can always play a game much better as you learn what the rules are
And eventually, the more you catch on, and the more you understand, the quicker you get at it and the better you get at it
You’re gonna evolve more in this next year than you have in the last three or four years because
You get better and better at it as you evolve.
Justin: Just the whole concept really creates a lot of insight for me because for so long I’d been stuck in this idea that once I become better or once I get over the idea of some of my limitations or faults then I can really start getting some growth done or evolution done but then I realize those faults and limitations and struggles are the stage that I need to be on to make the choices that I need that are going to create the evolution that I need or the growth that I need

Tom: Yes exactly, you are where you need to be. So many people feel like they’ve been overlooked.
Oh I’m ready to just soar with the eagles if I could get rid of this damn body I’m ready for all this stuff and why can’t I make it happen
Well, you’re probably not ready for this stuff and that’s why you can’t make it happen.
You’re trying to get the horse out in front of the cart. That sounds like fun and you’d really like to do it and it would give you some proof and you need that because you’re not really sure this is real.
So you have all these wants and needs to do it but you see wants and needs are ego so where the act is, what’s important to you is you know How you interact with your wife and your children and your boss and your mother in law and everybody else, the people that sit next to you on the bus. What’s your interaction with those people that’s where the real meat of the game is. Not in getting out of body and flying over the mountainsides because that’s cool. When you’re ready for those things
They’re going to be more of an extension of your ego, then you don’t get them
So it’s going to be one of those situations where you only get what you don’t want. (Laughs)
Justin: Ok that’s great. Uh let’s see I’m looking at the questions here. Vicki, you had a question, looks like it’s number 2 on your list that’s related in that it, you were talking about communicating with conscious space and things that get in the way maybe of mediation or that kind of thing.
Vicki That was actually what Tom was just talking about kind of related to questions 2 and 3 in my list.
You sort of answered a lot of the question two where I was asking about who the real me is
The relationship is to me

So I think you kind of addressed that pretty much I got some understanding
Yes it actually relates to

Answered question two where I was asking about who the real me is and (um, you know) what the relationship of me here in this PMR is in relation to the Me in NPMR for instance or any other beings within MNPMR and how that interaction occurs so I think you pretty much addressed that got a lot of understanding about how all that works

TC: OK I can maybe add a little because I’m looking at your question

You talk about conflicts in your head like there’s a whole pile of characters in there that feel different than you do and they’re sometimes fighting to be heard
Sniping commenting distracting can you explain about how that works
Well that’s a little different thing, your bigger question
Your bigger question
All those voices in your head, all those things that push you this way or that way, they’re all you of course, but they’re all aspects of you
They’re all you of course, but they’re all aspects of you. Each one is more or less I’d say bound by things like beliefs needs fear ego but also to caring and compassion they’re all more or less, when I say more or less that means More bound to it than average or maybe less bound to it
Now you I’m talking about little C you Different perspectives inside a little C you
And the reason you have all these differnet perspectives going around in your head it’s not that the angel you and the devil you are Growth at the being level progresses very slowly
It’s not black and white and then suddenly a light flashes and you lower your entropy
Typically it’s a very SLOW, two steps forward one step back kind of a process and because of that because of all these results and conclusions What do you make of it what are your results and conclusions they’re very fragmented it’s like

What are your results and conclusions of the process they stay very fragmented for years because it’s a slow process before your learning and growth is fully understood at the being level.
That’s why you have all these different kind of people inside your head because you really are a collection of all these different perspectives and viewpoints because in other words you ahven’t really settled on what you are, you’re a work in process
And while you’re a work in process You’re kind of like a bunch of things all struggling to come to terms with all these
Tom: Does that suit?
Vicki: Just to touch on the other part I had a question on Trying to understand how non-consciousness becomes consciousness or how the war game and the AI guy that I might create on a com[puter because I can program well. How does that consciousness ever become a sentient being make its own decisions what process what kind of spark that moves somebody from being Conscious being

Tom: OK that’s a good question and it’s one the people studying AI should understand as well
The people doing AI are trying to create consciousness. Different ways that they’ve tried

But they’ve all kind of failed because you don’t Create consciousness
You don’t create consciousness

The ingredients that are needed to
Memory
Processing
You have to have the ability to modify self. So if you have anything, say you have a compiter and it has all those
You have to have a stream of input data from the environment
That’s your experience that’s your input

You have to have processing

Closer to your goal or further away

And of course the key to all of those is that you have to have the ability to modify self. Now if you have anything

All of those attributes

The input data, the memory, the processing, the purpose

Then that thing will become conscious. It’s not that you have to build consciousness into it
You just have to give it the right ingredients and consciousness will kust blossom there because those are the ingredients of consciousness. So You don’t build it. You give it an opportunity to exist and it will.
Now that consciousness isn’t going to pop up and be a human being, a talking head that will play checkers with you, but, it will be some sort of consciousness, It could be a very lower level it could be like an insect’s consciousness or like a dog’s consciousness
But it will evolve into some sort of consciousness and given the limits? It may have very limited input or very limited memory or very limited ability to modify itself It may have a very limited amount of states that it can evolve into
So just because you start a consciousness doesn’t mean it will evolve into a human or even a superhuman. It just means that it will evolve until it hits the ceiling, until it can’t get by It’s kind of squeezed in if you will. Because of its limitations, the constraints that it has one it.
Matter of fact I got a letter two-three days ago from a guy and he said, he was reading, and I wish I could remember it but he gave the name of the book and the name of the author,
He said this guy has a thesis that the internet has some form of rudimentary consciousness
Sort of reconfigures a little bit and things flow better and tho it’s very rudimentary he makes a case for it having consciousness so we look at those things Obviously the internet has memory, it can grab hold of available memory, it can grab hold of Got lots of input got memory can grab hold of available memory can grab hold of available processing
Its purpose like all of our purpose is to

BUT the ability to modify itself that’s really limited the way we write programs we don’t really give them a lot of choice as to how they do things on their own we give them algorithms that basically say If this Then That so where does this internet have choise
But that doesn’t mean that in all the gazillion nodes and chunks of processing and memory that’s out there on the internet, that there isn’t some way, some kind of subtle way Do things to modify itself and if it has all those ingredients then indeed you might find

Whether this fellow actually has his facts straight I don’t know, I’ve never read it, it’s just a note that I got from someone else. But it’s a good example. So you have those ingredients, and conscisouesns happens . It’s a good example You have those ingredients and consciousness happens So you don’t build it that’s where the AI guys are making mistakes you don’t build it you kind of just let it happen

Vicki: So that consciousness would almost be like a new individuation consciousness as a whole it wouldn’t have that layer higher sel it would kind of just be a new hand puppet in the sheet kind of thing
TC: Yes it would and that higher consciousness and that hierarchy that we put up there

There’s all these new hand puppets in the sheet but they’re also part of the fractal pattern

Devloping consciousness ehere in this reality frame

Where we’re existing but again, you just think of it as a fractal, iterative priocess. So it’s a puppet in the sheet but

Which is part of and it keeps rolling back up so all of these new hand puppets in the sheet are sort of like we are

We’re a part of the whole thing

I remember seeing once somewhere on the internet showed how you had a little pattern of lights just randomly became sort of an organized became more and more ioorganized more and more regular and that kind thing rings true to me

Conway p ut out the Game of Likfe and it was some of the first sort of what do they call those Automoata where you have your game play board or realty and they give it certain rules and the rules are very simple dark and light squares dark and light pixels and if you have two darks together that means they disappear or they turn into a
And then you just let em go

Simple almost trivial rules and sometimes t takes them hours and house and uhoures before they get into a stable configuration and sometimes they NEVER getinto a stable
But iof you give them enough time, they start to find ways of lowering their entropy
They go from a collection o fjust black squares and qhite squares

And seem to have function yeah these things greow and evolve but eventually, these things become static and that static place is here they get to an optimal point the rule set has kind of boxed them in They get into a rut

Vicki: We could sort of, our race as a whole our whole environment could get to a place where nobody’s learning anymore

So it kind of gets oops scratch that one see ya later

Tom: Or you could


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:43 am 
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Are we looking to do, and is Tom willing to do another one of these types of chats in the near future?

I'd love to be able to participate. :)

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:59 pm 
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I'll second that!

Don't know if I will be able to participate, hectic schedule these days, but would like to see it happen regardless.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:43 pm 
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I am testing my skype with this new ISP, and do not know yet if it will stay connected. One test failed, but I need to do another.
Love
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:02 pm 
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I'll definitely have to try out this new fandangled skype thing-a-ma-jig!

It's not like you need to be a nuclear physicist to use it!
>_> or maybe you do... Hmmm. :)

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:17 pm 
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Quote:
I'll definitely have to try out this new fandangled skype thing-a-ma-jig!

It's not like you need to be a nuclear physicist to use it!
>_> or maybe you do... Hmmm. :)
Skype is easy, my internet is less than optimum, but I could opt to pay more although if the middle strength service is so iffy why bother? When you do it I am Bette S Baysinger there so find me and add me if you want.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:12 pm 
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In case it hasn't been posted elsewhere, the fireside chat is up on tom's YouTube channel in three, one hour parts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxhgiQnB ... ata_player

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:14 am 
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Quote:
In case it hasn't been posted elsewhere, the fireside chat is up on tom's YouTube channel in three, one hour parts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxhgiQnB ... ata_player
Perfect timing Justin. Thank you. :)
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:48 am 
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Just finished the series, really enjoyed it. Thanks Justin et al.

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