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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:24 pm 
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How wonderful is this! With thanks to Shawn Estes, Kathryn and Carlos who made this possible!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhv-XCff4_I

and on Vimeo:http://vimeo.com/18359204

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Last edited by Keith at MBT Events on Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:46 am 
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Can't thank you enough for this! My non-english speaking family and friends are going to be thrilled!

Can we get the subs file independent from the video so i cant edit a few things for legibility like font, outline and a few slang abbreviations to a more standard/neutral spanish?

Thank you so much for your hard work!!

Nacho


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:51 pm 
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I'll get that info to the person who can help you with this. Glad this is helpful to you.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:59 pm 
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Hey Nacho,

Glad to hear the work is appreciated, though I played a small part. To answer your question, to the best of my knowledge, "file independent" is not really an option right now. We started out using windows movie maker, which embeds subtitles, but does not make a separate file.

Efforts are being continued, and we're looking into more versatile programs, like subtitle workshop, subtitle editor, etc. Hopefully there will be a full release of the Hawaii workshop with both english and spanish subtitles, and I think once we have them "file independent" we can retroactively append to youtube videos.

If you know a way to go from Windows Movie Maker to a more subtitle friendly application, let me know. Or, if you're interested in working with the WMM (wlmp) file that we have, let me know and I'm sure we can work something out!

Btw, full credit belongs to the tireless, exuberant, and much appreciated duo Carlos and Kathryn!

Shawn


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:32 am 
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Doing a quick search brought me mostly to programs that extracts subs from dvds, I have not found one yet exclusively for MWV files.
I did find program called VirtualDub (capture and processing program, geared mainly towards avi files) that allows add-ons, in this case called Filters. The filter "SubLog extractor" http://www.softpedia.com/get/Multimedia ... ctor.shtml , does extract subs from video but it is a 2 part job, for the second part you must use another program called "subrip". Oh, and there is another filter you must install for WMV files.

So, yes it looks like a potential non working time wasting application for what we are trying to do. These seem to be from 2 to 5 year old programs, I bet there is software out there that with one magic click will do it all.
I'm currently on vacation on an old linux laptop with a not so reliable wifi signal, so downloading the lecture is out the question and installing these programs on old linux is asking for trouble. I will report back in a week or so after testing when I get my hands on some decent hardware. It doesn't look that difficult though, I will get those subs.

Shawn,
I've used subtitle workshop before and its a great program, it's a little outdated now and a new version is coming. Meanwhile I suggest using Aegisub (free) I found through this great webpage that recommends alternative software. http://alternativeto.net/software/subtitle-workshop. It's a little different but the manual is well documented and pretty straightforward, you'll get the hang of it in no time.

Take care,

Nacho


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:33 am 
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Quote:
Can we get the subs file independent from the video so i cant edit a few things for legibility ...
Try the thread where they did the translation work: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5050&start=300. The files are linked on page 21 in a post by Kathryn (Carlos).


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:56 am 
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Don't people write software? I've always wondered why a program writer couldn't just write a program to do what is needed, aren't any of you program writers?
Love
Bette

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:33 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
Can we get the subs file independent from the video so i cant edit a few things for legibility ...
Try the thread where they did the translation work: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5050&start=300. The files are linked on page 21 in a post by Kathryn (Carlos).
I see, thanks for pointing to that thread. Unfortunately the files have expired for download pretty quickly. I'll ask Kathryn if its possible to upload them again.

Thanks everybody for being kind and helpful.

Nacho


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:39 am 
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Quote:
Shawn,
I've used subtitle workshop before and its a great program, it's a little outdated now and a new version is coming. Meanwhile I suggest using Aegisub (free) I found through this great webpage that recommends alternative software. http://alternativeto.net/software/subtitle-workshop. It's a little different but the manual is well documented and pretty straightforward, you'll get the hang of it in no time.
Hey Nacho,
Interesting website, thanks for the link. I'll look into Aegis as it looks current and user friendly. Subtitle workshop is supposed to be good for converting files to other subtitle formats. Youtube accepts .srt and .sub, although as I said, what we uploaded was embedded...
Quote:
Try the thread where they did the translation work: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5050&start=300. The files are linked on page 21 in a post by Kathryn (Carlos).
Wow, I didn't know we had .srt files to work with! And a lot of people to credit... Froggy, Bette, Loka, Claudio, Quamta, MeClam... Looks like a useful link: http://www.mi-teoria-del-todo.com/EngWi ... te_Lecture although its missing many of the translated subtitles. Gives me some appreciation for the scope work. If we can get completed srt files, we can look at including the subtitles in a DVD release.
Quote:
Don't people write software? I've always wondered why a program writer couldn't just write a program to do what is needed, aren't any of you program writers?
Love
Bette
Hmmm... well that is beyond me. :) I can't believe how many different subtitle programs and formats exist!!! It does look like Quamta and MeClam developed a workable process for producing the srt's from transcriptions... However, there is no software I am aware of to go from audio (Tom speaks pretty fast) to a reliable transcription.

I wonder if there would be interested parties in transcribing, to english, the Hawaii workshop?

Shawn


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:41 am 
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I started the Hawaii transcription already, but only am in the first video still (thanks for reminding me). Then Lynda and my daughter Katie have plans to start on the Fireside Chat talk with Lynda picking it up at minute 42, and us, Katie and I doing the first 41 minutes. That hasn't actually started yet as Katie hurt her hand, but it is getting better now. Anyone that wants to join in just say so, and grab a section or two to do. There is no estimated completion time at this time.
Love
Bette

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:38 pm 
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Quote:

Can we get the subs file independent from the video so i cant edit a few things for legibility like font, outline and a few slang abbreviations to a more standard/neutral spanish?
Nacho
Hello Nacho, I am Carlos.
I have just now substituted the TMI 22 Professional Seminar (March 2010) ifile.it expired files by a new ones, so that they are placed in the same place.

On the other hand, could you be so kind to tell me how means exactly "legibility like font, outline" and, specially "few slang abbreviations to a more standard/neutral Spanish?"
Furthermore, if you have some time in order to illuminate me, please tell me what is, in your opinion, a "standard/neutral" Spanish.

It would be helpful if you answer my questions also in Spanish.

Thank you and regards, Carlos


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:39 pm 
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Hola Carlos,

First,
I want to eternally thank you for the comprehensive translation and subtitling of the seminar. I've done it before for some crazy Adam Curtis documentaries and I know it takes a lot of time, persistence and hard work. I've been dying to introduce Tom's theory to others but it's mostly pseudo-knowledge to me yet, Tom's organized approach in seminars is the best introduction possible. I thought about translating the seminar without even knowing it was under completion, but was too lazy, so I've started transcribing the CMN interview for future translation, which is shorter and the complex theory is not covered in detail.

Primero,
Me gustaría agradecerte eternamente por el comprensivo trabajo de traducción y subtitulado del seminario. Lo hice anteriormente con unos documentales medio locos de Adam Curtis y se el arduo trabajo, tiempo y persistencia que hay que dedicarle. Me estuve muriendo de ganas de introducir la teoría de Tom a otros pero por ahora la mayoría de lo tratado es pseudo-conocimiento para mi, el enfoque organizado de Tom en los seminarios es la mejor introducción posible para cualquiera. Pensé en traducir el seminario sin saber que tal traducción estaba ya casi terminada, pero fui muy vago y empecé a transcribir la entrevista de CMV para una futura traducción, la cual es mas corta y la compleja teoria no es tratada en detalle.

Second,
About legibility, this article explains it better than I could:
Quote:
“There are certain fonts that lend themselves well to web design, others that work better in print and others that are optimal for use against dynamic content such as moving images.
While web fonts such as Tahoma, Verdana and Georgia are great for use in web media, they were designed to work well in static design environments where the background doesn’t change.
There are three fonts that are widely used for subtitles in films and documentaries. They are:
Univers 45
Antique Olive
Tiresias
These three fonts work well as subtitles over dynamic content and will allow you to communicate most effectively with your audience.
When you design your subtitles, you will need to keep in mind that moving images interact with your top layer subtitles. For example, if your subtitles are white and they rest on top of a similar white tone in your image, the text will be difficult, if not impossible to read.
To ensure this doesn’t happen you should use a black outline around your text. This helps ensure your text will be viewable even against common black and white backgrounds.
Alternatively, some filmmakers use a yellow font for their subtitles. However, even if you decide to use yellow subtitles you should nevertheless use a black outline (and possibly even a soft shadow) around the text to ensure its readability.”
Full article with images here: http://www.lightsfilmschool.com/blog/su ... sizes/338/


Segundo,
Sobre legibilidad, el articulo de arriba lo explica mejor de lo que yo podría.


Lastly,
Abbreviations and standards as I said, only a few, like “labs” and other regional mannerisms that could be changed for a more fluid read for Spanish viewers from other countries.(I will cover in detail next week). Wikipedia to the rescue: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Spanish


Por Ultimo,
Abreviaciones y estándares, como dije, solo algunos como “labs” y otros manerismos regionales que pueden ser remplazados logrando una lectura mas fluida para los televidentes de habla hispana de otros países.

Nacho


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:08 pm 
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Katryn,

you have done a wonderful job. I know from personal experience how much time and energy is consumed translating just a few minutes, so the fact that you managed to translate the whole video to me is... well, hat's off to you. I'm sure many Spanish speaking people will benefit from this video in the years to come.

As far as the corrections go, for the time being, I would just change two minor things:

1) I would leave the subject pronouns implicit most of the time (with some exceptions depending on the context, but, as a general rule, I would omit them). For example, I would almost always translate "she told me" as "me dijo", instead of "ella me dijo".

2) A really minor and quite irrelevant mistake: while "éste" and "ésta" can be accented when needed, "esto" can never be accented, regardless of the context.

As you see, these corrections are very minor and don't really affect the meaning of that which has been translated. So, in a way, correcting it might be irrelevant.

I will continue spotting other things like these if you wish and if I detect them.

Regards.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:42 am 
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Quote:
Katryn,

you have done a wonderful job. I know from personal experience how much time and energy is consumed translating just a few minutes, so the fact that you managed to translate the whole video to me is... well, hat's off to you. I'm sure many Spanish speaking people will benefit from this video in the years to come.

As far as the corrections go, for the time being, I would just change two minor things:

1) I would leave the subject pronouns implicit most of the time (with some exceptions depending on the context, but, as a general rule, I would omit them). For example, I would almost always translate "she told me" as "me dijo", instead of "ella me dijo".

I do not found "ella me dijo" in the translated video. Please tell me the place in which it is placed

2) A really minor and quite irrelevant mistake: while "éste" and "ésta" can be accented when needed, "esto" can never be accented, regardless of the context.

Yes, you are right. But I do not found neither where it is placed in the video. Please say it to me if you know his place, in order to changing it

As you see, these corrections are very minor and don't really affect the meaning of that which has been translated. So, in a way, correcting it might be irrelevant.

I will continue spotting other things like these if you wish and if I detect them.

Of course, thanks very much. All efforts would be helpful to obtain the best possible quality results

Regards, Carlos

Regards.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:09 am 
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Quote:
About legibility, this article explains it better than I could:
Full article with images here: http://www.lightsfilmschool.com/blog/su ... sizes/338/

Excellent! I will make some experiments with this.


Abbreviations and standards as I said, only a few, like “labs” and other regional mannerisms that could be changed for a more fluid read for Spanish viewers from other countries.(I will cover in detail next week). Wikipedia to the rescue: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Spanish.

The first time that it appears the word "lab" it goes followed by <laboratory>, and I have maintained "lab" because in the trilogy it is the term that is used continuously, and also because it corresponds to the abbreviation of "laboratory" in Spanish. Anyway, of course it would be quite helpful if you presents a list.

Regarding the "neutral Spanish", as you could see in the Wiki-article, many specialists are working on it and there is no agreement on this matter. Concerning the Latin American Neutral Spanish, herewith the three points that are signaled in Wiki:

1.-Uses 'ustedes' instead of 'vosotros' for the 2nd person plural pronoun.
2.-Uses 'tú' (2nd person singular) is used to determine the relationship among the interacting people, using 'usted' for relationships in which a higher respect is necessary.
3.-Tends to a sole homogeneous pronunciation of the s, c (before e and i) and z.

I found that it exist a clear inconsistency between 1. and 2. for, in the case 1., how it is possible to discriminate if you are talking with a highly respected persons or not?

The point 3. do not affect the written text but, in any case, this homogeneous pronunciation of s,c and z is typical from Andalucia and therefore considered a regionalism.

I want to make to notice that the Latin-American writers of major fame, such as Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Jorge Luis Borges, Pablo Neruda, Cortazar, etc., including the recent Nobel prize Vargas Llosa, they all write with base in an impeccable Castilian language, and use the regionalisms when it is convenient for certain personages of the work.
In any case, I am able to translate to Castilian, this language being normally the one that is used in the secondary and top education in South America, as far as I know from informations of my South-American friends. It is my goal that Tom's teachings are translated to the "official" Spanish (i.e. Castilian), so that the whole Spain and mostly of Spanish-speakers (average cultural level) could benefit of them. The inclusion of regionalisms in the language will reduce a big quantity of interested readership (those who, seeing certain linguistic terms, will consider directly the work as of low quality. Furthermore, a negative rant made by this people will no doubt affect the expansion of the Book/Video).
If you (or others) consider that it could be suitable another translation from the Castilian-Spanish to different American dialects (certainly they all deserve identical respect - the language is an alive thing), why not?

Thank you very much for your commentaries. The reference to the fonts, etc. is quite interesting.
Regards, Carlos



Nacho


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