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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:15 pm 
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Carlos,

I am glad the links were of help.
Thanks for reuploading the files but I am still getting 'expired file' for : 1,5,6 & 10, but I don't know if it's just me.
Quote:
The first time that it appears the word "lab" it goes followed by <laboratory>, and I have maintained "lab" because in the trilogy it is the term that is used continuously, and also because it corresponds to the abbreviation of "laboratory" in Spanish. Anyway, of course it would be quite helpful if you presents a list.
I thought the word "laboratorio" would be better, at least one, since I think it is the correct spanish translation.
Quote:
1.-Uses 'ustedes' instead of 'vosotros' for the 2nd person plural pronoun.
2.-Uses 'tú' (2nd person singular) is used to determine the relationship among the interacting people, using 'usted' for relationships in which a higher respect is necessary.
3.-Tends to a sole homogeneous pronunciation of the s, c (before e and i) and z.

I found that it exist a clear inconsistency between 1. and 2. for, in the case 1., how it is possible to discriminate if you are talking with a highly respected persons or not?
Yes, it does create confusion to many. "tu" is informal and "usted" formal. When in doubt (in speech) we use "usted" and sometimes get corrected by the other person not to be too formal. The use of "tu" in legal contracts is not accepted and will nullify it. There are many variations, in Argentina for example, we use "vos" instead of "tu" (not in legal contracts though)
Quote:
I want to make to notice that the Latin-American writers of major fame, such as Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Jorge Luis Borges, Pablo Neruda, Cortazar, etc., including the recent Nobel prize Vargas Llosa, they all write with base in an impeccable Castilian language, and use the regionalisms when it is convenient for certain personages of the work.
In any case, I am able to translate to Castilian, this language being normally the one that is used in the secondary and top education in South America, as far as I know from informations of my South-American friends
Yes, it is. It's just novelistic language is not used for translating subs, at least not here, It's about the effectiveness of communicating.
Quote:
The inclusion of regionalisms in the language will reduce a big quantity of interested readership (those who, seeing certain linguistic terms, will consider directly the work as of low quality. Furthermore, a negative rant made by this people will no doubt affect the expansion of the Book/Video).
If you (or others) consider that it could be suitable another translation from the Castilian-Spanish to different American dialects (certainly they all deserve identical respect - the language is an alive thing), why not?
I am sorry if I made any confusion. I should have noted from the beginning I am trying to edit a few things to make a version more suitable for my audience, not to make you edit your own. That will (when done) increase the quantity of interested readership.

Nacho


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:50 pm 
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Quote:
Carlos,

I thought the word "laboratorio" would be better, at least one, since I think it is the correct spanish translation.
Yes, in fact we have placed <laboratorio> a number of times, not however as I mistakenly said the first time, because in that context Tom was referring to the adopted name of the room.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:53 pm 
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Quote:
Carlos,


Yes, it is. It's just novelistic language is not used for translating subs, at least not here, It's about the effectiveness of communicating.


Nacho
Quite impossible to agree with you in this matter.
If I interpret correctly - albeit with some difficulty - the syntax of the previous paragraph, I cannot help noticing that:
1.- What you name "novelistic language" represents the summit of the literary culture of this planet and
therefore the major degree of perfection in written communication up to today.
2.-“It's just novelistic language is not used for translating subs”.
Very often it is true and certainly in detriment of the good communication.
3.-“at least not here”.
With the greatest of respect, my decision in this matter is diametrically opposed to yours and, as far
as I am aware, corresponds with the wishes of the author.
4.-“It's about the effectiveness of communicating”.
It is a quite strange argument to declare that the aforementioned writers do not have “effectiveness
of communicating”. If someone thinks that, say, Jorge Luis Borges does not have this sort of
effectiveness in Argentina, it seems to me obvious that the lack belongs neither to Borges nor to
Argentina.

Carlos and Kathryn


Last edited by Kathryn on Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:01 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:03 pm 
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Quote:
Carlos,


Thanks for reuploading the files but I am still getting 'expired file' for : 1,5,6 & 10, but I don't know if it's just me.
Yes, I can see.., but I only uploaded them two days ago! So, if anyone knows another site other than ifile.it that has a substantially longer shelf-life, please let us know.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:03 am 
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Yes, my English skills are far from perfect. Nonetheless, you are not interpreting correctly by getting my words out of context and naming prolific authors and their efficiency at novels or their effectiveness at communicating, you are missing the point I am trying to make, the art of translating an audiovisual work for subtitling is a totally different matter altogether. I think it is important to take into account estimated speed reading times that vary from language to language to make a sound and continuous subtitle experience for the audience that adequately describes the speakers words and phrases, if not they might end up having to pause every ten seconds, or miss out most of what is being said.
Quote:
It is a quite strange argument to declare that the aforementioned writers do not have “effectiveness
of communicating”. If someone thinks that, say, Jorge Luis Borges does not have this sort of
effectiveness in Argentina, it seems to me obvious that the lack belongs neither to Borges nor to
Argentina.
I never said that. You’re pretty big when it comes to implying (both ways) and I am having trouble following your intentions, mainly because I don't see any good in them. I came to this thread to thank you and to politely ask you for the subtitle file, when asked why, I responded as requested in both languages. I didn't come to Tom's forum to feed ego based responses, but the exact opposite. This is as far as I am willing to go with you in this discussion.

Nacho


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:34 pm 
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Nacho wrote:
Yes, my English skills are far from perfect. Nonetheless, you are not interpreting correctly by getting my words out of context and naming prolific authors and their efficiency at novels or their effectiveness at communicating, you are missing the point I am trying to make, the art of translating an audiovisual work for subtitling is a totally different matter altogether. I think it is important to take into account estimated speed reading times that vary from language to language to make a sound and continuous subtitle experience for the audience that adequately describes the speakers words and phrases, if not they might end up having to pause every ten seconds, or miss out most of what is being said.


I never said that. You’re pretty big when it comes to implying (both ways) and I am having trouble following your intentions, mainly because I don't see any good in them. I came to this thread to thank you and to politely ask you for the subtitle file, when asked why, I responded as requested in both languages. I didn't come to Tom's forum to feed ego based responses, but the exact opposite. This is as far as I am willing to go with you in this discussion.

Nacho

Nacho,

Aquí no hay insinuación alguna, tan sólo honesta interpretación. Nuestra respuesta a tus argumentos vino como directo resultado de tus palabras escritas - ¿de qué otra fuente podría provenir? – y fue totalmente neutral.
Una ventaja nada desdeñable de la comunicación escrita es precisamente que queda escrita, sirviendo por lo tanto como prueba de lo dicho – dando así fundamento a una inspección objetiva.
Respeto tu decisión tanto como la aplaudo. En lo que a mí respecta, no doy por terminada discusión alguna. Es mi costumbre facilitar nuevas ocasiones para reflexionar y reconsiderar los asuntos, al igual que otros, suficientemente liberados de su ego, hacen conmigo.

Un saludo, Carlos


My dear Nacho,
Neither implication nor inference are the issue here; simply honest interpretation. Our response to your arguments was as a direct result of your written words - from what other source would we derive it? - and was entirely neutral.
I am concerned that you can find 'no good' in our intention; it has never been other than the desire to do the best possible job with regard to the task (being the very minimum that a work of this magnitude demands).
One of the great, undeniable advantages of written communication is precisely that it remains written, serving thereby as proof of what was said – providing the very basis of objective inspection.
I respect your decision as much as I applaud it. As far as I am concerned, I rarely take as given that a discussion is finished. It is my custom to allow the benefits of reflection and re-assessment of the issues, as others, suficiently liberated from their ego, extend to me.

sincerely, Kathryn


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:14 pm 
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So the solution would be Spanish spoken, rather than Spanish subtitles, dubbed, to keep the timing?
Love
Bette

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:34 am 
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Quote:
So the solution would be Spanish spoken, rather than Spanish subtitles, dubbed, to keep the timing?
Love
Bette
Hello, Bette.
In some parts of the translated video the "timing" is not fully synchonised because, as it is said in the head of the work, “in some parts of this video the translated text does not correspond exactly with the narration…such modifications have been supervised and approved personally by Mr. Campbell in order to… etc.”, the other parts being well synchonised.
The solution you proposed is clearly suitable. We are working on it for some time, not so much for matter of the synchro but for matter of serviceability for the spectator. Nonetheless, even the dubbed version will have some lacks of synchro, because of the aforementioned additions and the fact that Spanish phrases are normally much longer than the English ones (for not mentioning the speeeeeeeeeeeeeeed to which Tom speaks sometimes). In any case, we consider that here the main issue is to make the work fully understandable, even if there are present a number of “technical imperfections”.
Thanks VERY MUCH for your help, here and in the TMI Translation (we have worked a lot of times based in your Word-format transcripts).
Your appearance is always like a fresh water (I´m sorry, perhaps it is nor the most appropriate time to this comment, in Australia)
Regards, Carlos


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:39 pm 
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Oh thank you Carlos. I was "looking" for a "reality check", and this works as one view. :)

We all have parts in the play. ;)
Love
Bette

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Consciousness.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:41 pm 
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Hello to all,

The 12 Spanish translated files of the TMI Seminar are just now uploaded to the Google Docs server (http://www.google.com/google-d-s/b1.html),which presents much better features than ifile.it. One has to to register ( quickly and it's for free) and read or download the files in several formats. The new links to the translated files are placed in the same place as the ancient ones (What's Next....Trilogy in other languages....21).

Carlos


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:52 am 
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Thanks Carlos. Good thinking going with Google Docs; I didn't think about them, but they generally have good services.

Here's a link to the thread with the new Google doc links... viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5050&start=300


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