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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:10 pm 
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Quote:
Morpheus: [to Neo who is choosing the red pill] Remember... all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.
Ah ha. Truth not the truth.
Love
Bette

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:19 am 
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patrick,

Thanks for posting those quotes. I haven't seen the movie in a while and it was nice to be taken back to some of my favorite lines. The Matrix was one of my favorite movies growing up, and I think it was because it shook me at my core (being level). Sure it had some neat special effects for its time, but that was just icing on the cake. I never really understood why it had such a profound effect on me (at the intellectual level), but now since MBT I can clearly see why.

I also think that's why the subsequent two movies flopped so badly. They just focused on improving the special effects, or the "gee whiz" factor. There was no substantial metaphysical meat to them.

Ted,

Do you see more parallels now?

I find that you focus on consciousness-space so acutely that it closes your mind to other metaphors and possibilities. Just because the reality outside of The Matrix is another physical reality, it doesn't mean that there aren't any parallels that you can draw. Patrick quotes some but here's another:

The Matrix is a reality system that is one layer or level further down the reality onion, i.e. the consciousness-evolution-fractal-ecosystem. Think AI Guy, but with humans providing some rich input with their brains instead of their hands. You're thinking "up" the fractal levels past NPMR and all VRs or meta-realities to the base reality itself - at least, the hypothetical base reality, and anything beyond that is pure conjecture for us. It's easier to see down the fractal levels than it is to see up.

I think that's exactly why Tom uses the metaphors of WoW and The Sims in these videos, it's easier to see the subset than the superset. Yet he can use the principles in the subset to describe portions of the superset - to get a glimmer of the fractal reality. In fact, he uses these kinds of metaphors all the time for all sorts of aspects of AUM. The Matrix isn't any different.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:48 am 
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Mike,

I never saw those movies. Only advertisements and comments. I really know little about them as I said other than what is there on the Internet. I am put off by the purpose within the film as well. After Tom's model, I hold all these things up against a too high standard, no doubt as simply entertainment versus what I see as a pretty good model of reality.

Ted


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:03 am 
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I understand, Ted. If the movie has no value for you then there is not much point in spending your time with it. For me, the movie came out when I was a young kid of 14 who had never heard of philosophical concepts like the Allegory of the Cave. It was pretty mind blowing to me at the time, and there haven't been many experiences like it for me since (MBT is certainly one of them).

I too agree that Tom's model is pretty darn good and that it sets a pretty high standard. Other models or metaphors I've seen may get a smile and a nod out of me, but not much more than that. On the flip side, I've shown some people MBT and it doesn't seem to do much for them either.

I've been pretty impressed with the NYC workshop and will recommend others to see it.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:59 am 
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Mike,

It is my belief that to fully comprehend Tom's model and its full significance, one needs some comprehension of long past history of mysticism, Indian metaphysics and the Buddha to see where it comes from. It doesn't hurt to have some familiarity with everything from shamanism and such explorers as Carlos Castanedas Don Juan to Robert Monroe. All this goes to show you that mankind has been exploring and finding hints of the same reality, never fully understood but clearly glimpsed, since we came out of the jungles. Then all that is forgotten as science thinks it has figured it all out with advancing technology and computers and it is all physical, forget the role of consciousness. Except along comes Tom Campbell and rediscovers it all again, creating a model based upon science and digital technology which explains it all and integrates it all into one understandable gestalt, a new/ancient paradigm.

If you don't get but a part of this, you don't really know the whole thing and what you are missing. What it really means to have one over arching 'big picture' of reality that takes you from the Void of the ancient (and modern) mystics and the "Illusion" of the Buddha through the true artificial intelligence and the basis for the arising of Consciousness in fully comprehensible terms, not to mention the fact that it predicts a fixed speed for light in a medium and has a much simpler explanation for the anomalies of quantum physics than quantum physics itself can reach. And don't forget how much cutting edge science and mathematics is fitting itself right into this model.

Ted


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:31 pm 
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For sure, I whole-heartedly agree.

I'm actually going through a phase of reading some books on Buddhism. To further explain what I meant, they get a smile and nod out of me as I see parallels with MBT. But it isn't mind-blowing anymore to hear that reality is an illusion (it was the first time, and that was with The Matrix). It was actually Robert Monroe and The Monroe Institute that led me to MBT - that certainly added a layer of understanding and appreciation of the model. I've taken a brief look at some Carlos Castanedas and I have some Indian friends whom I've discussed their theology (Hinduism) with. I haven't really investigated shamanism that much. From the scientific perspective, I have been interested (as an amateur) in the idea of theory of everything since high school, and have read books by Stephen Hawking, Carl Sagan, Brian Greene, and others. From the digital science/AI perspective, I am computer engineer by profession.

Looking back at all of this, it's kind of neat how many of my past interests have all converged onto MBT. I suppose that makes sense, since it is a theory of everything. :)

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:25 pm 
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Mike,
I was blown away by the movie "The Matrix" as well, and slightly disappointed by the 2 sequels, but as a package, the matrix trilogy was a total success (in my book) if only for entertainment value. And It was, I must admit, the Kung Fu and special effects that first attracted me. But the movie was obviously based (however loosely) on some of the modern (and relatively new) theories about the "digital nature" of "reality", (that I was unaware of at the time) and the possible evolution of artificial intelligence. And even though there was some "creative licence" taken I had to admit that the "mystical" aspects did seem to fit within the digital model. Forcing me to think about MY "reality" in an entirely new way. Based on PERCEPTIONS, and digital information being processed subjectively, for some "higher" purpose (other than just working for a paycheck, finding a mate to reproduce, and accumulating material possessions)
As you say it was the first movie that really set the new standard (It made me think in a way that I never, previously, considered) and it did open my mind to ideas that were, at the same time ludicrous and compelling. But it caused me to reconsider my beliefs about consciousness, perceptions, and the digital nature of reality.

And if MBT is the "red pill", I am glad I didnt choose the BLUE pill, LOL.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:15 am 
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I agree , watching the master workshop reminded me lots of Morpheus' speechs . Obviously the film lacks Toms detail but it certainly is a good starting point . Also I like how it mirrors little buddah which keanu reeves also stars .

The matrix 1 is a very complex multi layered film , nothing is obvious and takes many views + personal experience to fully understand . The other two , though disappointing (i suspect by how bad some of the bits are that the Hollywood machines got involved and turned it into something it wasn't supposed to be ) are full of information theory . Here's a really good doc that details all three movies connection with different religions and philosophy's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q1jHx29C70 .

Also there's a good interview with one of the directors and Ken Wilbur if you search youtube.

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