Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:54 pm
Location: Ocala, FL
Welcome to the forum Danny.
I'm going to try and answer some of your questions because Tom rarely comes to the forum and never answers questions here anymore. The online participation for the Fireside Chats, where he does answer questions, has gotten to the point that in many months only the participants questions were answered.
The idea that the cause of all suffering and chaos is birth which perhaps is similar to what the Buddha says.
This has no comparison in MBT. You are a part of the Larger Consciousness System being rendered a data stream that you think of as earth. In this PMR, (Physical Matter Reality,) there is an evolved ruleset. And part of this evolved ruleset is reproduction and birth. It is a natural process that has evolved. You have free will. If you don't like the ruleset of this PMR, you are free to choose another PMR. But most entities are rather addicted to this one because it is a fast track one. But if you want a slower, gentler one then that is your choice. But here you get to deal with all the other kindergartners hitting other children, putting glue in hair, stealing toys, and hitting other kids. When we grow up things get kinder and gentler. If you are any student of history, you know that this PMR is evolving. One of my friend's who was a popular news anchor in Ohio in the 70s could not get a credit card in her name or rent an apartment with out a co-signer. Sometimes we lose sight how far we have come in 50 years.
The point in getting the PMR data stream is to evolve the quality of your consciousness. Here you get many opportunities to challenge your beliefs and fears. It takes many lifetimes to make any progress partly because most people have no idea why they are 'alive.'
This is a training reality for mostly low quality consciousness beings. Why do you so the unfairness all around you? Because most people are high entropy and do high entropy things. But that doesn't make any difference in the free will decisions you make. You can still work on lowering your entropy.
Given that you think the point of the game is to lower entropy, surely the most effective way to do that is to refrain from reproducing. To me reproducing seems to be the most unloving thing to do because you are subjecting another being to suffering and death just for your own pleasure?
As a parent of 3 myself, it is difficult to accept this idea but I haven't yet come across a convincing counter argument.
You can certainly do that, except it is a little too late for you, because there is free will. But the entities that control the avatars of your children would have just chosen different parents. You wouldn't have prevented them from existing. But to provide a safe loving home for kids to grow up in is a great gift for an entity incarnating. They may have even chosen you as a parent because your situation gave them the best chance to grow the quality of their consciousnesses.
And coupled wit this question is what on earth was the creator of this game thinking when it created this? Why all the suffering? What on earth is the point of evolution?
Why all the suffering? Suffering is from the eye of the beholder. You get plenty of opportunities to grow. There was just a segment on a news show about a black kid that was in and out of trouble until he was sent to a very bad juvenile detention center. But he had some caring teacher and he got to a crisis point where he decided to make different decisions. Now he is an opera singer at the Metropolitan Opera House. You have the free will to make better choices no matter what hand you get dealt. The only exception to this is a brain injury, bad brain chemistry, or some other thing that does not allow you to process information in such a way to make good choices. There are many, many examples of one person de-evolving and another person evolving over similar type events. It is not so much what happens to you as how you deal with what happens to you. You can make courageous, brave choices and learn, or you can get lost in your ego and become a drug addict. It is up to your free will choices, and to be more precise - the Intent behind those choices.
I invite you all to imagine the extinction of mankind on this planet. What type of world do you see?
Because this is a digital reality there are all kinds of possibilities. The LCS could incarnate many more low entropy beings to help turn the tide. The LCS could reset the PMR to an earlier time to see if it would evolve better. The LCS could scrap this PMR all together if the probability was that it would not evolve out of the downslide. And there are many other things I can't think of right now. But in the mean time we are getting the feedback for choosing money over the environment. And there is no better way to learn than by feedback.
what on earth was the creator of this game thinking when it created this? Why all the suffering? What on earth is the point of evolution?
There is no point to consciousness without the ability to change. Evolution of consciousness is like the evolution of all things. What works continues, and what doesn't dies off.
To answer this a bit more, I will copy a bit of a transcript from one of Tom's YouTube videos.
More here: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=11073&p=102956&hil ... BT#p102956
Now we can see a little bit further back to where that primordial piece of consciousness came from. It may have come out of this nothingness that created something, and that produced a process. But you still are stuck with an assumption that self-awareness existed. Whenever a scientist says the word, ‘somehow,’ that means he doesn’t really know what the answer is. And we hear scientists say, 'somehow,' lots of times. This is where I will say, "somehow," because again, we can’t know what happened before we existed. We can only say somehow that self-awareness existed, consciousness existed, awareness existed, and from there we can build up something rather grand.
In Hindu theology they started at the beginning of time, or the beginning of existence, with a void. And they say, "The void was pregnant with potential. And out of that void spontaneously erupted existence." And then it began to evolve. It immediately evolved into what they call Indra’s Net. Which in that theology is a metaphor of an array of jewels that are all netted. They are a network all connected with each other - Indra’s Net - jewels in a network. The Larger Consciousness System would be the whole Indra’s Net. And we, the Individuated Units of Consciousness, would be those jewels in the network that are communicating with each other. The void that was pregnant with possibility and potential created existence. And that existence turned out to be these units that communicated and that are netted with each other. Indra's Net is ancient - probably 3000 years old. It's hard to say. I don’t know the origin of that writing. It maybe even older- even 4000 B.C. So that’s very, very ancient. 
How did these ancient people know those things? They knew the same way that we know these things. Ancient peoples had consciousnesses just like we do. Ancient peoples were being played by Individuated Units of Consciousness just like we are. And one can always explore inner space. So we have people 5000, 6000, 7000, or even up to 10,000 years older than we are who explored inner space. All it takes is enough time to spend with yourself exploring your consciousness. All the things that we do today could easily have been done just as well back then. So people did do that. And we did have this understanding of the beginning of where it all came from. And it makes perfect sense in terms of the MBT theory. We look at that ancient Vedic knowledge and we can see how it fits into the MBT structure very easily.
Now we have this void that spontaneously became lower entropy and created information. That information was then acted on by a simple rule which was the cellular Automata. And the Cellular Automata was able to evolve, what we think of now, as consciousness. It was in that Cellular Automata that self-awareness developed. An awareness of itself as, "When I do this this, this is what that rule set does to me." It is an awareness of what it is, and an awareness of what’s going on. And that may just have occurred out of memory - an awareness of here’s memory of our history. And to be able to look at that history and see pattern in it. This is a thing that is created of pattern, and that’s what lowers entropy. A thing of pattern was able to be aware of its patterns. That was the first consciousness. And exactly how that came about or how that worked is just conjecture. That’s about as far back as we can go on this origins story.
But now let’s take it a little further to see how this Larger Consciousness System began to evolve into the thing that we know of today. We think of the Larger Consciousness System today as kind of the operating system of reality. It's very low entropy. It is a 'being' because it has consciousness. It's aware, it has emotions, and it has feelings. It is sort of like us in a sense except it is much bigger, grander, and more experienced than we are. And we'll talk about how we got to this place. We have this consciousness system that began evolving and needed to lower its entropy. And along the way it discovered a few ways to do this. And one of the first ways that it discovered, besides patterns, was it could also have sequences. Which brings us to time.
Time is a technology and an invention of consciousness. Time allows consciousness another whole dimension in which it can build order, and in which it can expand. Sequences are orders. It’s a pattern in time rather than a pattern in space or in thought. There really is no 'space' there. But rather than just ordered things, it's ordered things in sequence. Time is just another technology that was probably a breakthrough. Because suddenly the way that consciousness could arrange things it could build, and the constructs it could make, took on another whole dimension in sequence. Before we got regular time, we had what I call primordial time. And primordial time is just defined by change. That primordial consciousness could be in state '1 or 2,' 'this or that,' or '0 or 1.' That was a change. It could be in 'this' or it could be in 'that.' Well now you have a 'before' and an 'after.' If it could be in 'one' and then it could be in 'another,' then time had just been birthed. But this was primordial time and not regular time at this point. Change defines time. Something that can change has to have time or it can’t change. Nothing can ever change without time. There's always a 'before' and an 'after.' Through this evolution change was happening all along. Change was happening from the pregnant void that erupted into something through the Cellular Automata. All of this is about change. So primordial time is fundamental, and it’s at the very root of existence.
When the Larger Consciousness System got to inventing a new technology that technology wasn’t really time. It was regular time. It was time that was like a metronome. And that is easy to do if you have cells of 1’s and 0’s. You just flip between cells - 1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0. That’s a metronome. And a metronome keeps time. So the system could create a clock just by flipping between two states. And that clock could then be used to sequence precisely everything else. So that was the invention of regular time. That’s what I’m talking about when I say time was a technology. And that regular time was the technology. That’s how we get to the kind of time that we think of which is tick-tock, tick-tock time.
This Larger Consciousness System that was evolving had a second big ah-ha moment after the invention of regular time. The LCS was just a monolithic thing that made one choice at a time. It was the single choice maker. One thing making choices is very limited, because you only can really interact with yourself. There are no other choice makers. The next big technological breakthrough of how to grow, how to have more space in which to create, and how to add order to all the available bits was to split itself apart into pieces. And the LCS gave each piece free will. These free will pieces, that I call Individuated Units of Consciousness, could interact with each other. And because each had free will there was no way to tell exactly how those interactions would work out. This created novelty and more possibilities.
The Larger Consciousness System was not yet a grown up system, and was still in its infancy. But it decided that it needed to break itself into pieces even at that time. And of course we are those pieces; we are those Individuated Units of Consciousness. And no doubt the Larger Consciousness System tried to order those pieces and tried to line those pieces up. It tried to have those pieces sing together in harmony to create more order. And the Larger Consciousness System found out it didn’t work because these pieces had their own free will. When the system said, "All right all you pieces line up and take it from the top. We are going to sing this song today." Some of those pieces said, "Nah don’t want to, I want to go do something else. My friends and I are going to have a conversation or some other thing. Go and sing your own song."
The LCS, for the first time in its existence, had to deal with other things with free will. It wasn’t just 'the one free will' that made 'the choice.' Now there were all of these other free wills making choices. In the beginning the Larger Consciousness System wanted to dominate, and to manipulate the new free will pieces. It wanted to order its new creation to lower entropy in ways that it thought these pieces could help it construct more content, and more information. But these free will pieces had the free will to just say, "No," and no doubt they did. The Larger Consciousness System had to learn how to deal with other pieces of consciousness whose free wills were just as immutable, and inviolate as its own. And this was a long and difficult process. The consciousness system didn’t come to this conclusion right away as to how to optimize these new pieces with free will. But it had now created a social system with itself in the center and all of these Individuated Units of Consciousness outside of itself. Now we had individuation - individuals. It was, "Here I am." And, "There you are." And, "You are not me, and I am not you." We have this duality of 'me,' and 'not me,' because we have all these other free wills. I suspect that the PMR, the virtual reality that the Larger Consciousness System evolved for us to play in, was probably done before it had learned this lesson of growing up. It was struggling with this just as we struggle with this lesson today. Because it started as potential, just potential, with free will to make choices.
Consciousness requires time or there is no such thing as a choice. Because a choice defines 'before' and 'after.' Consciousness needs free will because without a free will there are no choices. Free will defines, 'choices exist.' So the system now needed to find ways for its Individuated Units of Consciousness to evolve, grow up, and have experiences. The Larger Consciousness System had the experiences of all the Individuated Units of Consciousness. And the Individuated Units of Consciousness had experiences of each other, but that wasn’t going anywhere very quickly. That’s what I describe as the big chat room where they could pass information back-and-forth. But that’s about all they could do. There weren’t a lot of consequences to that game. So the virtual reality was created that we call our home, which we call our universe, for the Individuated Units of Consciousness to play in.
The Larger Consciousness System was still in the process of growing up, and it tried to order these IUOCs as they played avatars in our system. This is a bit of conjecture of mine. I explained to a friend of mine, Eric Cunningham who is a professor of history and Catholic Studies at Gonzaga University, this idea of the Larger Consciousness System having to grow up, and having to mature. In a social system of its own creation it found that it had to let the Individuated Units of Consciousness' free will work out whatever way it did. The Larger Consciousness System could not control them. Because you optimize a social system with love and caring, and not with force or manipulation. It hadn’t learned that yet. And as I explained to Eric that the system was still in the process of learning these things, he suddenly said, "Oh that explains a very big mystery that I’ve had for a very long time. There’s this schizophrenia between the New Testament, which is about love and turning the other cheek, and the Old Testament which is about this angry and jealous God. A God that demands things of his people. And those two seem to be completely incompatible with each other." So that got me to thinking as well.
That was why I said it was conjecture that the Larger Consciousness System produced our virtual reality before it had fully grown up yet. It was something like we are. It was grown up enough so that it could make and build some amazing things just as we can. But the Larger Consciousness System was still full of enough ego and fear not to have grown up yet to the point of becoming Love. Now we have this angry and jealous God turning people, who defy its orders, into pillars of salt and so on. A God who destroyed the enemies of its chosen people. All of this I had previously just written off as men making God in their own image. Men have egos and fears, so they just imagined that was the way God was too - sort of like them. Instead of that being the only possibility now there’s another possibility. The possibility their interactions with the Larger Consciousness System, which ancient people often interpreted as God, was indeed true. You had a Larger Consciousness System with an ego, with fears, and with anger. And who wanted things to be the way it wanted them to be. It was still trying to manage a system with its own overlay of the structure that it thought was best, rather than letting all the pieces just interact however they would. If that’s the case, then that is the transition between the very ancient writings of the Old Testament and the much newer writings of the New Testament. And indeed there might have been an angry, jealous, manipulative, and demanding Larger Consciousness System early on in our beginnings here in this Virtual Reality we call our physical reality. I call it Physical Matter Reality, (PMR.). So I thought that this was a very interesting thought.
Last edited by Sainbury on Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.