I hate to even post under the "negative" forum, but no where else seemed like a good place to write this. I love the MBT series and it connected a lot with what I already knew intuitively. Tom in the last book touches on drugs that rocket you out into mind space or are a short cut, he says that they cannot help you learn to fly, but are just a cannon that shoots you into mind space. I agree that drugs in particular psychedelic substances like DMT, lsd, psilocybin(mushrooms), and masculine(peyote/san pedro cactus) do act like a cannon, but I feel it's a very damning and not carefully tested statement to say that drugs can not help improve consciousness quality. Long before I had ever even hear of MBT or had even started to consider a bigger picture I was in a low place and I was abusive to others both physically and mentally. I was heavily into drugs at the time, mostly pills and other narcotics. My friend brought over a half ounce of mushrooms and me being who I was I just wanted to take something to get high, so we split them half way, little did I know I was about to change for good. With the guidance of the mushroom I was forced into a space seemingly inside my mind where I was connected with other entities and energies. I began reliving memories and situations that had brought me to my current mind state and I was able to solve and forgive those situations. In the end of this trip I was able to see all the love and positive reactions since the beginning that brought me to this positive point and I felt a love settle inside me for everything in my life and for the first time I felt in control and like I could shape my own future. This experience right here gave me the means to fly, just because I was shot out of a cannon doesnt mean I didn't have wings to fly once I reached the sky. All I wanted to say basically is that we shouldn't blanket drugs with a negative stigmatism, just because some are destructive and not helpful, like the ones I was taking before my mushroom trip, but some of them can do some serious good for ones conciousness. Of course do not rely solely on "drugs" to raise your quality, but some can help you shift over things you thought you couldn't over come

Hello Leto :)
Tom has answered a few questions about drugs and as far as I can remember he mentioned that they can be useful for some people to help them discover that there is more. After that, however, the more sober path should be taken.
If I were to speak publicly to so many people, I wouldn't recommend drugs to anyone, too. You can't do that because there are enough people who have problems with it and it is illegal in many cases.
It also works sober :) And the access to the bigger reality is not necessary to become a better person.
I know that mirco dose psilocybin can be helpful with depression and that there are other positive properties, i am not against it. For many it is also a good excuse to throw something in because it makes me "spiritual". And there's always a certain risk with drugs, even if it's just that you hurt yourself because you "didn't see the stairs". You can't recommend that in good conscience, everyone has to decide for himself.

best regards
Ingo

_________________
"Courage carries genius, power and magick"
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

feeling "one with everything" and love and all that gets forgotten after the drugs wear off. perhaps you had a good experience. You also have the heath issue and the chance of addiction.

I just had a wisdom tooth removed a couple of weeks ago. After the surgery I was offered a prescription for TYLENOL NO. 3 WITH CODEINE. I took the prescription in case i desired to get it if the pain was worse than I thought after a few hours but in the end I decided not to waste my money on it and avoid doing unnecessary drugs.

In the end drugs for 99.9999 of people 99.999 percent of the time are a waste of time, money, having negative consequences on your health, your family suffers, your employer suffers and society suffers. you also have legal consequences for some drugs.

I also see it as a moral issue selling drugs and supplying them to others. A close family member of mine makes a lot of money but is essentially a raving idiot and often homeless because he spends all of his money on drugs.

In terms of growth and quality of consciousness most of the time it has a negative impact on yourself and others. say no to unnecessary substances. I think I would actually prefer to have a normal state of consciousness as well..

there are clearly many many reasons to not do drugs and little benefit if any.

-

Yeah I agree that you aren't going to actually continue making progress unless you work at it with a sober mind. I get not wanting to promote "drugs" because of legality and dangers, but I should also be more specific when I say drugs, because what I'm really talking about is psychedelic substances which are not for pain and do not contain any physically addicting substances and often get lumped in under the name "drugs" with a lot of very destructive substances that when actually ingested do not resemble each other in anyway. A lot of the fear and especially the legal aspect of these substances stems from belief traps that we share in our western culture, things such as mushrooms have been used longer than our recorded history by cultures all around the world and were not feared or viewed as just a hysterical drug trip.

Touching on the oneness and love dont stay with you after the psychedelic experience I just wanted to say that, that is a very subjective thing. I have friends who have experienced something like that, but are quick to write it off after their trip because it was just hallucinations. I also have friends though who have found purpose for their lives after having the oneness experience and have had complete personality flips that definitely do stick around after the drugs wear off. One friend in particular who has had three reconstructive stomach surgeries because he couldn't make himself stick to a diet to keep his stomach healthy and was also diagnosed schizophrenia as a child was able to successfully on a mushroom trip change the voices that originally berated him into ones that kept him in check when it came to him physically taking care of himself.

There is a lot to get into about mushrooms like how they give life to planets, how they are our DNA ancestors, how they can communicate with you through your mind, and how they store and collect information through psilocybin, but maybe I'll share my conversations with fungi and what I've learned in another post later.

Basically I made this thread to just say while drugs may not be a long term solution and maybe we shouldn't promote them openly in a book speaking to a general audience, it can also be dangerous to denounce them because doing that is only a belief trap that will limit your possibilities.

Thanks for all the replies guys I really love this website!
Safe travels everyone:)

.

Leto! as in Jared?? lol jk. Welcome Bro! And much love to the magic mushroom! After all, did you not know that JESUS is just code for a magic mushroom?

Tom's stance on Psychedelics are rather confusing I must say. Someone else can find it on here, but he is talking to my boy Cole Randall, and he says that Psychedelics CAN have a positive effect on people, but there downside is way higher than the upside. He said that if you have done 95% of the work, drugs can take you that last 5% to where you have an "Aha!" moment, but they will not take you all the way. Also that in the moment of being high on them, it hits you very hard spiritually, and it may be very profound, but from the view of YOUR ENTIRE LIFE, you can never know what the downside was, i.e., what success in NPMR you could have had if you did the harder job of doing it sober.

I completely lol @ those who are QUICK TO denounce psychedelics (usually because they haven't tried them), yet they eat SWEETENER, drink CAFFEINE, and get drunk on alcohol. Drugs are drugs. They have an affect and cloud your conscious awareness. TC does not consume any sweetener or alcohol or caffeine, yet those on here who denounce psychedelics PROBABLY use at least one of those drugs! Hypocrites.

Mr. Campbell, I must say, has a much softer approach to drug taking here on this forum as well as other videos, then he does in his trilogy. When I reread how hardcore anti psychedelic he is in his third book, I was quite taken aback I gotta say! He calls those of us that have taken drugs "clowns", and I can't remember what else, but compared to his normally mild tone, it is severely heavy handed in the book... So either he has softened his approach, or changed his opinion, I don't know which.

At one point somewhere on this forum, he compares psychedelics simply to binaural beats! They are both simply training wheels that eventually need to come off. So to compare drugs to binaural beats on here, vs. how low-key mean he sounds to us druggies in his book, is a rather startling difference. He is all over the place. But I resented him when he called me a clown...

Oh well. We shouldn't take this current PMR packet too seriously anyhow. Learn what ya can, then flip the page.

I have taken acid, mushrooms, and 2ci. That 2ci sh** FRIED my brain. Permanently I think. Ah well. I have always been crazy anyway... Now I just don't apologize for it lol.

So of course there are dangers. But would I recommend a responsible amount of magic mushrooms to someone over a whole Pizza Hut pizza? youre g-dang right I would. Much healthier! Or how about some liquid cannabis versus a "bottle of jack"? There is no comparison. Alcohol is easily the most destructive drug, you may stop your internal dialogue (Bill Hicks)

_________________
first samuel two three

.

.

I am not sure Tom would look down on anyone, including drug users.

I have definitely received some guidance about how drugs are actually limiting..

Think about some of Tom's guidance on suicide.. If you choose suicide in this life in the next life you are more likely to choose that "solution"... (maybe become a serious drug addict that had a life ruined and causes suffering to others)

although I am sure their is "something" to be learned from drug use and even serious addiction, clearly it is ultimately limiting and having a clear mind or consciousness will help you make batter decisions..

If someone did a substance and had a life altering experience positive experience I am happy for them..

but ask yourself this. would you recommend drugs to your children? would any serious doctor, psychologist recommend it to someone? I doubt it.

maybe just ask the LCS about what it thinks. maybe it will tell us.

The truth is I think the word "drugs" is thrown around far too easily without giving the proper respect it deserves. When I came to the end of my road with depression, I ended up as a last resort trying psychedelics to push me away from suicide, because nothing else (including antidepressants) helped. The next day after trying psilocybin mushrooms, all I can say is I didn't have depression anymore & I was put on a path towards a spiritual awakening, I haven't had depression since this day. I then found MBT shortly after...

I also have suffered from IBD (Ulcerative Colitis) for about 6 years before trying medical cannabis, which once again solved this problem & in a way cured my IBD. I haven't had a symptom in over 4 years now. No "drugs" which have been recommended by doctors have ever helped me, I've had to do my own research and take control of my own health. If I had of believed all the negative hype about cannabis and psychedelics, I probably wouldn't even be here. Words can't describe how they have helped my life in a meaningful way. And being natural plant based substances I can't help but think they are here for a reason, to help us.

Meth, Cocaine, Heroin, Alcohol, Cigarettes, Antidepressants, Crack.. e.g. they are the "drugs" which should be spoken about specifically. If you are just saying "drugs" in a general term in a negative way, it's completely subjective and you're just confusing people who aerate properly educated on psychedelics or even CBD & other plant based medicines.

That's just my opinion, I think within MBT the term "drugs" needs to be properly defined which Tom has tried too do, but maybe not enough? Their seems to be a lot of confusion on the topic.

Depression normally comes from a series of bad choices that were not in line with your true nature and drive. And as the density and the guilt and pain increases, you avoid feelings and this dens feeling overrides love basically.

I just started taking Psilocybin in microdoses every third day (100mg-200mg) to see how it might influence my daily life.

For me, psychedelics were sometimes helpful but mostly distracting. I gladly knew how to work with them and that my belief structures create my experience and therefore I could see some of the fear patterns more strongly.
The negative side though is that I jumped forward and didn't have the level of being that supports that state. Now handling multiple data streams and seeing more things while in conversation is very hard to accomplish as I am not able to focus my mind consistently. Meditation got harder, some fears were added, some removed.

My take on it is, for an eye opener the psychs can be useful, but they are mostly limiting as one can create new belief traps on how to interpret the world and what one is capable of doing in the non-physical (no real system of communication with the LCS)

So being as clear as possible to create a system of communication is crucial, otherwise you can't work with your information...

_________________
_______________________

What you think you are might not be true - always.