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 Post subject: Re: Free Will
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:27 am 
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From Tom's definitions:

8. Free will is the ability of a Conscious awareness to freely make or not make any of the choices in one’s decision space. Making a free will choice is rooted in the whole Consciousness, not just the intellectual part of a dysfunctional consciousness. Free will is logically necessary for consciousness to exist and consciousness is logically necessary for free-will to exist. Your body, your avatar is only data in a simulation and has no free will. You, as an individuated unit of consciousness playing your virtual avatar character (apparent physical body) in a multi-player virtual reality that we call our physical universe, must have free will to make choices that enable your evolution. Otherwise, there could be no point, purpose, or value to your individual existence – no growth, no progress, no substance, no becoming something more or something different – just a dead unchanging data-script that exists for no reason.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8713&p=78101&hilit= ... ity#p78101


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 Post subject: Re: Free Will
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:00 am 
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Quote:
From Tom's definitions:

8. Free will is the ability of a Conscious awareness to freely make or not make any of the choices in one’s decision space. Making a free will choice is rooted in the whole Consciousness, not just the intellectual part of a dysfunctional consciousness. Free will is logically necessary for consciousness to exist and consciousness is logically necessary for free-will to exist. Your body, your avatar is only data in a simulation and has no free will. You, as an individuated unit of consciousness playing your virtual avatar character (apparent physical body) in a multi-player virtual reality that we call our physical universe, must have free will to make choices that enable your evolution. Otherwise, there could be no point, purpose, or value to your individual existence – no growth, no progress, no substance, no becoming something more or something different – just a dead unchanging data-script that exists for no reason.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8713&p=78101&hilit= ... ity#p78101
"Your body, your avatar is only data in a simulation and has no free will." ~Tom Campbell.

So, is it unreasonable to conclude that 99.9% of avatars operate beneath the veil/filter from influences, such as beliefs, derived from social, cultural, familial along with the DNA, passed down through the millennia, while being played by Consciousness?


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 Post subject: Re: Free Will
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:30 pm 
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So is that a yes or a Nooooo?


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 Post subject: Re: Free Will
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:32 pm 
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I think the idea is that such influences become the automatic (instinctive) programming which the freewill can transcend.


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 Post subject: Re: Free Will
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:38 pm 
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Quote:
I think the idea is that such influences become the automatic (instinctive) programming which the freewill can transcend.
Aaah! Interesting observation Vzam. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Free Will
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:58 pm 
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Quote:
"Your body, your avatar is only data in a simulation and has no free will." ~Tom Campbell. So, is it unreasonable to conclude that 99.9% of avatars operate beneath the veil/filter from influences, such as beliefs, derived from social, cultural, familial along with the DNA, passed down through the millennia, while being played by Consciousness?
Tom is saying clearly that the avatar makes no decisions because it is only data in a data stream. The decisions are made by the FWAU in the way that the FWAU gets a data stream from TBC, then interprets the data, then changes the data, and then sends the data.

ALL INFORMATION being sent to the FWAU is filtered by ALL FWAUs through their beliefs, fears, ego, etc. Many FWAUs never realize all the choices available to them because of their limiting beliefs and fears.


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 Post subject: Re: Free Will
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:11 pm 
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Quote:
I think the idea is that such influences become the automatic (instinctive) programming which the freewill can transcend.
Exactly, I agree.


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 Post subject: Re: Free Will
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:28 pm 
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Quote:
"Your body, your avatar is only data in a simulation and has no free will." ~Tom Campbell. So, is it unreasonable to conclude that 99.9% of avatars operate beneath the veil/filter from influences, such as beliefs, derived from social, cultural, familial along with the DNA, passed down through the millennia, while being played by Consciousness?

Quote:
Tom is saying clearly that the avatar makes no decisions because it is only data in a data stream. The decisions are made by the FWAU in the way that the FWAU gets a data stream from TBC, then interprets the data, then changes the data, and then sends the data.


I don't read it that way. This is where metaphors are problematic because "data stream" is a metaphor. In my point above, the avatar does not make decisions . Its actions are "instinctual" based on the named influences.
Quote:
ALL INFORMATION being sent to the FWAU is filtered by ALL FWAUs through their beliefs, fears, ego, etc. Many FWAUs never realize all the choices available to them because of their limiting beliefs and fears.
jdjr's version: ALL INFORMATION [including instinctual behavior by the avatar] being sent to the FWAU is filtered by [the subject FWAU as is the case with] ALL FWAUs [and their respective avatar]. [It is filtered] through their beliefs, fears, ego, etc. Many FWAUs never realize all the choices available to them because of their limiting beliefs and fears.


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 Post subject: Re: Free Will
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:14 pm 
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is filtered by [the subject FWAU as is the case with] ALL FWAUs [and their respective avatar].
Avatars don't filter anything. They are only data without any ability to change anything.


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 Post subject: Re: Free Will
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:36 pm 
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Quote:
is filtered by [the subject FWAU as is the case with] ALL FWAUs [and their respective avatar].
Quote:
Avatars don't filter anything. They are only data without any ability to change anything.
Read my post, Linda. It does not say the avatar filters in the post your quote above. It says filtered by the subject FWAU. See underlined above from your quote and from your post below. Where do see the avatar filters?

Linda: ALL INFORMATION being sent to the FWAU is filtered by ALL FWAUs through their beliefs, fears, ego, etc. Many FWAUs never realize all the choices available to them because of their limiting beliefs and fears.


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 Post subject: Re: Free Will
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:12 pm 
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Chixter: To say we have unfettered "free will" to make any choice within the multitudes of choices is not accurate.
We do not have, "unfettered" free will in this VR. The nuance is that we make free will choices within our limited decision space which is influenced by just about every variable we encounter in this PMR, from ruleset to beliefs. Our reality(VR) gets individually rendered to us probabilistically with the future not yet determined until it's actualized. Through our intent, we interact with the data in a particular way and modify it.

The computing of our experience and interaction is done at the IUOC level while the avatar and VR data-stream are completely external and independent of us.

The IUOC(individuated unit of consciousness) has a superset of our, "local" free-will that we have in this VR we are incarnated into as avatars. That superset free will, also called, "Absolute Free Will" refers to the IUOC's inherent ability to interact with zero constraints over the RWW(reality wide web) which is our netted network of consciousness communication. This entails no restraints on how an IUOC may choose to subjectively interpret a data, stream, modify it based on subjective interpretation, and what it may choose to output back into the RWW.

And to a degree, that is what is happening in this VR, as IUOCs individually receive the data-stream, subjectively interpret it, and send output back all the while this entire frame of reality is independent and seperate from us. The purpose for the virtual reality is to provide a platform for IUOCs to interact with each other by defining a standard of existence and communication through the rule-set. The main focus of consciousness evolution here is through interaction with other free-will IUOCs interacting with this data-stream.

Now, at this point, it should be clear that the discussion of, "free-will" is a meta-reality subject and until we can look into the source code or interpret how reality cells(most fundamental, "building blocks" in this system) create free-will - we will only have to postulate from a PMR avatar perspective or make logical deductions, or assume what NPMR entities tell us about the inner-workings. Contextually, in terms of this system defined and examined by Tom Campbell, free-will is a also a logical necessity defined in Sainbury's quote. Hopefully, that does not confuse you more.


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 Post subject: Re: Free Will
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:57 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
Chixter: To say we have unfettered "free will" to make any choice within the multitudes of choices is not accurate.
We do not have, "unfettered" free will in this VR. The nuance is that we make free will choices within our limited decision space which is influenced by just about every variable we encounter in this PMR, from ruleset to beliefs. Our reality(VR) gets individually rendered to us probabilistically with the future not yet determined until it's actualized. Through our intent, we interact with the data in a particular way and modify it.

The computing of our experience and interaction is done at the IUOC level while the avatar and VR data-stream are completely external and independent of us.

The IUOC(individuated unit of consciousness) has a superset of our, "local" free-will that we have in this VR we are incarnated into as avatars. That superset free will, also called, "Absolute Free Will" refers to the IUOC's inherent ability to interact with zero constraints over the RWW(reality wide web) which is our netted network of consciousness communication. This entails no restraints on how an IUOC may choose to subjectively interpret a data, stream, modify it based on subjective interpretation, and what it may choose to output back into the RWW.

And to a degree, that is what is happening in this VR, as IUOCs individually receive the data-stream, subjectively interpret it, and send output back all the while this entire frame of reality is independent and seperate from us. The purpose for the virtual reality is to provide a platform for IUOCs to interact with each other by defining a standard of existence and communication through the rule-set. The main focus of consciousness evolution here is through interaction with other free-will IUOCs interacting with this data-stream.

Now, at this point, it should be clear that the discussion of, "free-will" is a meta-reality subject and until we can look into the source code or interpret how reality cells(most fundamental, "building blocks" in this system) create free-will - we will only have to postulate from a PMR avatar perspective or make logical deductions, or assume what NPMR entities tell us about the inner-workings. Contextually, in terms of this system defined and examined by Tom Campbell, free-will is a also a logical necessity defined in Sainbury's quote. Hopefully, that does not confuse you more.
Well done, Human+. You speak to this from the observational subjective reality top-down as described by Tom or in other words the macro level. How about defining it from the micro level, the perspective of the avatar. Muchas gracias!


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 Post subject: Re: Free Will
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:43 pm 
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What kind of, "micro" definition that is seperate from macro. It's better to ask a specific question or elaborate.


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 Post subject: Re: Free Will
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:50 am 
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What kind of, "micro" definition that is seperate from macro. It's better to ask a specific question or elaborate.
How about defining it from the perspective of the avatar rather than from the perspective of the IUOC. Do you need more elaboration?

(How about defining it from the, micro level, perspective of the avatar rather than from the perspective of the IUOC, at the macro level)


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 Post subject: Re: Free Will
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:03 am 
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The avatar doesn't have a point of view. It is only data in the data stream - like a rock.


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