Please provide a cite, from Tom, specific to your interpretation of it.

Consciousness uses an avatar to have experience and choices that are bound by the rule-set of a virtual reality. This makes “Consciousness” more fundamental than “avatar”. Thus consciousness exists independently of the existence of an avatar. “Consciousness” is the user and “Avatar” is a tool created by consciousness to be used by consciousness.
http://www.my-big-toe.com/forums/viewto ... 738#p92738

Second request: Please provide a cite specific to your interpretation. I see no reference in the quote above that would cause one to conclude the avatar is like a rock.

Sainbury: The avatar doesn't have a point of view. It is only data in the data stream - like a rock.

If the ruleset allowed a rock to have decision space it would be the same. The avatar is a tool, nothing else. The avatar doesn't have consciousness and can't have a point of view.

I didn't ask you to restate or repeat your question. This is not what elaboration is. I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt.

I specifically said what kind of micro free will are you asking about that is separate from the macro because I do not define free will exclusively from the avatar level without the macro level. Even the local free will the avatar has is from the IUOC level.

So what specifically are you trying to understand?
Why are you being antagonist and strung up on semantics, yet again.

Sainbury's point is what you quoted before about Tom saying the avatar alone has no free will. Instead of understanding the reply contextually within what you're asking of me, you are going a tangent and being strung up on semantics. You are very obviously feeding on this behavior.

I want to be very clear here. If the ruleset allowed a rock to have decision space it would be the same [as an avatar]. Therefore, I can conclude that your previous statement that an avatar is like a rock as been revised. In fact, an avatar is not like a rock. If my understanding is incorrect, please advise.

Here is your original cite:

Sainbury: Consciousness uses an avatar to have experience and choices that are bound by the rule-set of a virtual reality. This makes “Consciousness” more fundamental than “avatar”. Thus consciousness exists independently of the existence of an avatar. “Consciousness” is the user and “Avatar” is a tool created by consciousness to be used by consciousness.~ Tom Campbell
http://www.my-big-toe.com/forums/viewto ... 738#p92738

Tom makes clear that consciousness is more "fundamental" than the avatar. The avatar is fundamental but less so than consciousness. Hypothetically, humans operate from the intellectual level, which is less fundamental than consciousness. Is it unreasonable to conclude then that an avatar has a "point of view" at the intellectual level? Consciousness operates from the fundamental being level and uses the avatar to have an experience. Please provide a cite in support of your assertion that the avatar does not have a point of view.

You are so tiresome. I am going to just correct you from now on and not go into this verbal battle.

Jdjr to Sainbury: Please provide a cite in support of your assertion that the avatar does not have a point of view.

Sainbury to jdjr: You are so tiresome. I am going to just correct you from now on and not go into this verbal battle.

Now, since you did not correct me, one can conclude that the avatar has a point of view.

Here is more from Tom:

"The Avatar (humans) is responsible for evolving our PMR including the earth, planets and stars.
The Avatar thinks it is an Avatar. "~Tom Campbell. He begins after the first question.

Life, death and free will

That would have been a lot of responsibility for a rock with no point of view. Glad that was cleared up. So, Tom confirms the hypothesis that the Avatar and Consciousness are evolving on dual evolutionary tracks. The evolution of this PMR and of Consciousness (big C).

JDJR,

Think about your line of dialogue right here.

1. You just made it a point previously to say that the avatar has no free-will. You also cited Tom.

2. You then asked me to define free-will, not from the IUOC level but from, "the perspective of the avatar". -> Well, refer to number 1. here, the avatar alone has no free-will.

3. You then lack the contextual awareness to understand Sainbury's comment and go on a tangent about semantics and whether an avatar technically has a perspective from the intellectual level. She was talking about your use of, "perspective" in relation to the avatar's free will, of which it does not have. That is what she means by, the avatar does not have a perspective(in relation to free will). Again, contextual awareness.


Re-examine what you are trying to get here by being antagonistic.

Here is my original post:
Here I elaborate and ask a specific and precise question. It is not a trick question nor an attempt to ambush you. How you answer it is your choice. Here is how you answer it:
You did not specifically say free will in your previous post. Here again is what you said:
I will give you the benefit of the doubt.
Specific to my original question above, it was very simple, I asked you to reverse your initial post and state it from the bottom-up from the perspective of Avatar not the perspective of an IUOC. You did so from the top down as the IUOC I asked you to do it from the bottom up. It is not a trick question, I am not trying to ambush you, just exploring the dynamics of the contrast between the deterministic view that free will is an illusion and Top down view that free will is fundamental.
Said the man in the mirror. Sorry you view it that way.
In my discussion before, I contrast the components of free will as the illusion and free will as the fundamental in an attempt to find a rational explanation for both. At least 2 other members on this forum get it.
Said the man in the mirror.
The point was made and qualified with the question: So, is it unreasonable to conclude that 99.9% of avatars operate beneath the veil/filter from influences, such as beliefs, derived from social, familial, along with DNA, passed down through the millennia, while being played by consciousness? You have yet to respond to the question.
I did not ask you to define free will from any perspective, see above
Here is what I said in my previous post:

"Your body, your avatar is only data in a simulation and has no free will."~ Tom Campbell.

So, is it unreasonable to conclude that 99.9% of avatars operate beneath the veil/filter from influences, such as beliefs, derived from social, familial, along with DNA, passed down through the millennia, while being played by consciousness?

Vzam responds as follows: I think the idea is that such influences become the automatic response (instinctive) programming which freewill can transcend. I responded in the affirmative. So therefore , is it unreasonable to conclude that the Avatar has a perspective in relation to its influences? Now do you want to pick it up from my question above? I think you need to check your own contextual awareness.
Said the man in the mirror.

Sometimes it is best to go back to the definition of the word.

Perspective per Dictionary.com - the state of one's ideas, the facts known to one, etc., in having a meaningful interrelationship

Under that definition the avatar, not having consciousness, cannot have perspective. The FWAU has perspective which is expressed in the PMR by the avatar.

Okay, let me educate you(respectfully). My entire post was an explanation on free will to Chixter. When you say in response to me, "say it from the avatar's perspective", it's implied, based on the context of my post, that you are talking about explaining free will in relation to the avatar. Do you follow? Why would you assume I am even remotely thinking about the context of your previous posts about the illusion of free will at the avatar level. Determinism and free will as an illusion were not at all relevant to my post - on top of that, your question did not invoke that context, it was not specific and you restating the question is not elaboration. Your question acknowledged my explanation from the macro level, and then asked for a micro level perspective and points to nothing more, so the context is exclusively my post you directly responded to. My post, which again, is not addressed to you, JDJR, or your previous discussion. That is also the interpretation of, "perspective" Sainbury was addressing and why she made it a point to source a quote that the avatar alone doesn't have free will. My interpretation is that you lack contextual awareness and you would do good to take remedial criticsm.



I have yet to respond to a question that wasn't even posed to me? You asked this to someone else before I even posted a response to Chixter. I was not even there. Nor was this wasn't even a point that was relevant to anything I'm saying.

In the video I posted previously, Tom points out that the AVATAR (human) thinks he is human.

Hypothetically: The subject human thinks that consciousness resides in the brain. Thinks that this earth, the planets and the universe is all there is. Is attached to meaningful relationships. Is influenced by beliefs related to cultural, societal and familial ties including the inherited DNA. This is the extent and the state of humans ideas from a human perspective by design. The human (avatar) is immersed and attached to this PMR.

All of which is baked into the rule set and encoded in the evolution of the human. The human then, by definition and pursuant to the theory, is operating under an illusion. Theoretically, the human operates under the illusion of free will by design The human's decisions are cast under the framework of the subject influences and so are the random probabilistic choices. The human choices are further influenced through the intellect and or intuition (FWAU also immersed in PMR) and powered by fear. Free will resides in Consciousness (big C).

The subject Human dies and the avatar returns to dust as encoded in the rule set. The human then embarks on a transition intended to detach Consciousness (FWAU) from the PMR attachments. The human can transcend the influences and realize free will at the intuitive level in this lifetime through personal development and, in so doing, can lower entropy and increase the QoC.

Hi JMDB,

Free will is abound in every reality I found myself in.. As far as rape goes,, one of the first experiences I was in was I had left my girl on a winter slay ride momentarily to purchase a few things from a store, upon doing so a dude took the woman I was riding with into a bathroom and raped her while I was gone, When I arrived I found out what had happened and met the rapper face to face in the bathroom, I wasn't angry at all, I was in teacher mode... I beat the skin off his face for a teachable lesson on how controlling someone actually felt like. I didn't kill him! I just gave him something to think about. THC did nothing to help or hinder my travels, DMT did give be a blast off and now I know where the Aztecs and myans got the picture/glyphs from. LSD I traveled back to the dinosaur age and saw what was from the point of where I was. The best bet is buckle down and do the shit on your own. those experiences from the drugs were cool but do not come close to the understanding you get from doing it yourself.

-Toby

This is a very interesting topic. I'm not entirely sure if I got all of the conversations and argument points. To my naive understanding, the avatar is a programmed IO portal that has a lot of instincts and rendering capabilities. However, the decision making is the consciousness. A good example is people in vegetative state. In my view, the logical sequence in this physical reality can be simplified as following, the consciousness has the free will to make choice in the database, the data stream is then filtered and rendered through the avatar IO portal and reached the consciousness as decision making references. Because the avatar effects are so strong, it actually suppressed/tricked the local consciousness into thinking all these are the reality. Think about listening to music on a noisy train or during airplane take off. You would think there is no music. This is actually mentioned by Monroe and many eastern religion thinking, that the real signals are weak, and the noise are high.

The mechanism of drugs on the avatar is by disrupting the IO mechanism. This is totally biology, or you can call it the encoded program. There are biology studies that already figured out how LSD works. In short, through disruption of the IO portal. the noise input melt down, and all of sudden the local consciousness felt totally lost because the new perception does not correlate with what they have learnt in this physical reality. There the experience start to go into different directions. Some will realize the local reality is illusion, others will get lost on what's going on, and others will get lost in their fear. My tentative thoughts on these variations on the acid trip are that they are partially dependent on the entropy levels of the consciousness.