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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:45 am 
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I love Tom Campbell and his works but was disturbed by his reference of the Big Cheese as HEy while listening to a recent podcasst


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:50 am 
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Tom has know The Big Cheese for quite awhile and says he definitely has a male vibe about him.

It isn't a comment on gender inequality in any way. It is just some IUOCs incarnate more as one sex than the other. I have a female friend that says she identifies more with being a male. But she has been OK with being a female in this life. She's married twice and has a child. I identify totally as female. I do remember a past life or two as male, but I prefer to incarnate as female.

There are lots of possibilities.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 12:15 pm 
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It does seem sexist if there is even a male "vibe", that the Big Cheese is more male than female, seems it should be a combination of both energies. I find that is what aggravates me most about organized religion - all GOds, all men - what happened to Goddesses? I too identify as female but believe in equality in every area - this is just another form of sexism and a way to make women "less than." I am disappointed.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 2:46 pm 
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It would be more helpful if you learned more rather than striking an attitude. Tom knows very much what he is talking about in this situation and he is not making up a situation but rather reporting on it. The Big Cheese as presently assigned to the post is a long term acquaintance of Tom Campbell in NPMR and Tom was his protege. TBC previous to this assignment was just an NPMR resident of some influence but no official position. 'He' is now the CEO of the group of VRs of PMR type and NPMR type that are interactive with each other and considered to be a 'system' and specifically Our System or OS. TBC took over when the previous Big Cheese stepped down for some rebuilding of his/her/its QOC after a long time in office and some degeneration. Tom has said nothing about the present BC as to history of incarnation nor about what the previous one is now doing to recuperate.

People here keep complaining because they don't like the way the LCS is run, the way that the participants in the PMR VRs must suffer and now you don't like the fact that the present Big Cheese comes across as male. We don't have any say in how things are run any more than you do. We just report what we observe (or I repeat what Tom tells me if I have no direct knowledge) and come to feel that we know. Remember that Tom also describes an NPMR entity as Thor who gives out with some kind of Viking yell and chest thumping act when you meet 'him'. But he is also came to be a friend of Tom's and Tom did not make up his act, Thor did this himself for his own amusement.

You can always go read New Age feminist publications. Note that Tom has explained that he self published his trilogy of books because the regular publishers insisted that he must rewrite them to fit the New Age genre before they would accept them. That this would violate the truth as he knew it forced him to self publish to maintain that truth. There have also been NPMR entities reported to clearly come across as female, even though the NPMR rule set does not create either male or female entities as such and as has been reported by more than just Tom. None of us are at a sufficiently high pay grade to have any say about any of this.

Tom is working on a new book for future publication in which he discusses Primal Male, Primal Female which might possibly make this more clear in the future. viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7805&p=66690 For now I suggest you absorb more of the currently available information as you are not as yet up to speed. It is pretty clear to me that much of the general trans gender and other type gender problems as homosexuality of both types probably relates to IUOCs who do not adequately balance out their incarnations as male and female and thus get into problems in PMR when they do eventually start the process of balancing out their male/female incarnation ratio and incarnate as their less frequent gender choice.

Ted


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:49 pm 
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Quote:
It does seem sexist if there is even a male "vibe", that the Big Cheese is more male than female, seems it should be a combination of both energies. I find that is what aggravates me most about organized religion - all GOds, all men - what happened to Goddesses? I too identify as female but believe in equality in every area - this is just another form of sexism and a way to make women "less than." I am disappointed.
MBT is not a religion. Tom is not a prophet. When he speaks, it isn't as if his words are law. Tom stating that he interprets the big cheese as male is not sexist. It does not matter whether TBC is male or female. Consciousness has no gender. Tom knows this. If you choose to incorporate MBT into your own life, you may interpret TBC as a female goddess. That would be within the limits of MBT. Whatever helps you feel better and grow.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 6:42 am 
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It does seem sexist if there is even a male "vibe", that the Big Cheese is more male than female, seems it should be a combination of both energies. I find that is what aggravates me most about organized religion - all GOds, all men - what happened to Goddesses? I too identify as female but believe in equality in every area - this is just another form of sexism and a way to make women "less than." I am disappointed.
Tom explained numerous times, that beings in NPMR do have a something like a preferred gender. The Big Cheese seems to be male. The Big Cheese is not god. If you want to have a god in this model, it would probably be AUM or the LCS. I don't know if you could ascribe a gender to the LCS. It's not a big deal. We are all consciousness, we're all equally important. I'm sure there are more than enough beings that play an "important" role that identify as female.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:42 pm 
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Trisha, the nature of these things is subjective to its very core. I encourage you strongly to read on, you will seldom find an approach to quote-unquote spirituality that so effectively dispenses with the inherent need for gender roles. I assure you Tom's description of "the big cheese" was not a malicious attempt to shoehorn male characteristics into a fundamentally nonphysical entity.

I seldom share such things on the forum- but in my most soul-shaking experience within NPMR, I found myself laid bare, soul pulled summarily into the void, for a rather stern but loving discourse with an entity I now only describe as "the White Queen". She had all the positive qualities one could possibly associate with the archetypal "feminine". Until I come across the big cheese myself, I assert I have met none more grand and complete. Again, I encourage you to continue exploring within your own subjective quest and experience. You may just come across who or what you most need. And if you bump into her, tell her I said "I'm working on it".

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 1:30 am 
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Quote:
It does seem sexist if there is even a male "vibe", that the Big Cheese is more male than female, seems it should be a combination of both energies. I find that is what aggravates me most about organized religion - all GOds, all men - what happened to Goddesses? I too identify as female but believe in equality in every area - this is just another form of sexism and a way to make women "less than." I am disappointed.
Looks like the only problem here is your beliefs. Work on those and see how petty this point of view is.
It is after all about working on your beliefs and fears and then things become clearer.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:23 am 
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I seldom share such things on the forum- but in my most soul-shaking experience within NPMR, I found myself laid bare, soul pulled summarily into the void, for a rather stern but loving discourse with an entity I now only describe as "the White Queen". She had all the positive qualities one could possibly associate with the archetypal "feminine". Until I come across the big cheese myself, I assert I have met none more grand and complete. Again, I encourage you to continue exploring within your own subjective quest and experience. You may just come across who or what you most need. And if you bump into her, tell her I said "I'm working on it".
I met an entity in my dreams once. I perceived it as female cloud of some sort. She did not say or do anything. She was just super duper extremely caring, friedly and loving in an unconditional way. Made my week. I like that dream.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 2:44 pm 
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Ted,

can you say when the change in office took place and how long the former TBC was running OS?

Thanks, San


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:36 pm 
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Looks like the only problem here is your beliefs. Work on those and see how petty this point of view is.

Work on how you treat new members, no matter what past experience they bring to the table. She has a fair point in that all but the most ancient tribal religions worshipped male deities as a matter of course.


Trisha, if you ever come back, one more thought. The "big cheese", as Ted and Rada pointed out, is in no way similar in meaning or omnipotence as the gods you reference. "He" (or "It" if you prefer) is merely presented by Tom as a highly evolved individual consciousness, who simply oversees the larger system's workings to provide an optimal environment for our own evolution- like a temporary prime minister of some sort. Like anything within My Big Toe, Tom doesn't ask that you take this as fact, this is simply his experience. A guidepost to understand the inner workings. Again I hope you continue your quest, whether it be through MBT or another means you feel will help you.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:28 pm 
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Ted, can you say when the change in office took place and how long the former TBC was running OS? Thanks, San
I don't think Tom ever gave a time period other than, "some time ago." NPMR isn't on a time scale like we are here where you can pinpoint an hour, day, month, and year.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:55 pm 
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San,

Tom did not provide that information. The time frame is vague but supposedly 'recent', what ever exactly that means. I don't think that Tom really wanted to make all of that information public as it would lead to all sorts of question about NPMR society and LCS management and what might be called 'politics'. It does tell us that CEOs of systems are appointed from a higher level but do not serve forever and that there is a hierarchy of management as there is obviously a level above the Big Cheeses for the Systems which appoints them. How many levels is unspecified and may not even be available in NPMR. How many assistants they may have and how extensive a management hierarchy is also unstated and unknown to me. It would also appear to be a meritocracy. Further, there are 'bad guys' and part of TBC's job is to keep them in line. I do not know exactly what the limits are on Tom's personal knowledge. Mine is very much less.

Also keep in mind that TBC is in charge of only one of thousands of Systems like OS in approximate size and makeup as interacting VRs. Tom provides information about OS in his books in a generalized way. He describes these systems as 'fractal', but exactly what that means, I cannot say. They are not 'visible' as nothing distinguishes one from another as they are just 'regions' of the LCS which means a great number of IUOCs and the RWW which serves them. The VRs themselves are represented only by the IUOCs which participate in them and the messages which come from The Big Computer to place them in the VRs and in the system which again is also likely made up of the IUOCs which participate in that 'system'. As I have explained before, this keeps the messaging distance over the RWW relatively short to make communication more efficient. Timing for the VRs would become very difficult if communication were figuratively from one 'side' of the LCS to the other because of the message transit time resulting from a very long path length.

Ted


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:11 pm 
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Next time Tom sees the Big Cheese, can he tell him that the Earth portion of this PMR is apparently overpopulated with rampaging human FWAUs, causing major problems.

From the point of view of many drudges down here, managers of all grades appear to be on an extended lunch break. Can they please be nudged back to the office and asked to put us high on their agenda. We need the benefit of their blue sky thinking.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:14 pm 
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It is the general policy to let the VRs evolve as they will. There are little nudges like Gandhi, Tom, etc. But if we didn't get the feedback from our actions we would be hard pressed to change and evolve. We made the swamp, and we will have to learn to swim with the alligators or drain the terrain.


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