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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:48 pm 
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hello guys
i have just finished reading the trilogy......
this is a must read from my side.......but i will give it 4.5/5 stars.......
when i was reading the 2nd book, i could give it 5 stars but i am a bit disappinted after reading the 3rd.......
the author talks about raising your consciousness quality all along the book.......i mean these words are everywhere "you have to increase the quality of your consciousness"
and because of them i was expecting some real examples of how to do it, at least in 3rd book.......he says its all in intent but he never even gave an example of making those important choices or intent.....
the author could give an real life example of successful choice making and how actually intent and motivation affects our consciousness quality.......
dear author its my humble request......we all are not enlightened and all of us cant read between the lines......
if you are expecting people to apply your wisdom than at least give an example otherwise people will be making same choices like before reading your book
probably it is possible that i missed the instruction......if this is the case let me know.....
otw a very good trilogy.......
thanks........


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:44 pm 
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Hi kyubi,
Welcome to Tom's MBT discussion forums. Do you need specific directions on how not to be a jerk? I didn't think so, and that is basically it. Don't make choices that will negatively effect others and do make choices that might positively effect others every time you are faced with a choice.
Love to you and yours,
Bette

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:18 am 
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Hey kyubi,

This post (and most of that thread) should help you.

viewtopic.php?p=44957#p44957

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 1:19 am 
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kyubi,

I wrote a chapter on Intent, combining this concept with what I feel is sort of a mirror aspect. Although I wrote it and not Tom, Tom and I put much discussion into it and his comments were incorporated. It was at Tom's request that it was made available for downloading. Here is a link to a thread where there is some discussion and a link to download this chapter. It might perhaps help you with this question. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6144&p=43383&hilit= ... ent#p43383

In addition, Tom did discuss the fact that this PMR VR is designed on the basis that no special knowledge is required to function and reduce our entropy and raise our Quality of Consciousness. Nothing is required but to interact with others, and everything, on the basis that you avoid interfering with and optimize the free will of those interacted with. That is not that you effectively say, here I am, take anything that you want. Your own free will is part of that optimization process. And you might find it desirable to oppose the free will of one in order to protect the free will of another who is unable to protect themselves.

I would say that Tom focuses on the way to understand reality and think your way through things as opposed to telling you what to think. This shows up everywhere from being open minded and skeptical to not telling you what to expect NPMR to look like, modeled on a description by him when that kind of perception is entirely subjective. What would you expect from someone that tells you that right interaction is based upon optimizing free will? At base, our free will arises from the fact that we interact within VRs which are meta realities that provide us by their nature with free will and in fact Consciousness arises because that free will exists. Would you then expect someone believing such to do otherwise than provide you with free will options? Would you expect them to tell you how to act? He tells you to instead act and interact with best Intent possible and then pay attention to the feedback. This is not an intellectual exercise in thinking but an exercise in being.

There is a reason that Tom did not provide what you complain of not receiving. Having it would be counter productive.

Ted


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:14 am 
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Quote:
Hi kyubi,
Welcome to Tom's MBT discussion forums. Do you need specific directions on how not to be a jerk?
Bette
no, but i do need specific directions on how to be a nice guy.........
anyway msagansk and Ted, i will check the links.........
there must be some application of the knowledge gained from this book........if its just as simple like keep living your life because this space time is designed to automatically raise your consciousness than there is no use of big picture
if i have read this book than there must be difference in my choice making compare to before reading the book........and i want explanation of that


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:34 am 
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kyubi,

Perhaps the explanation is that you approached and read this book as an intellectual act only and thus you failed to learn part of what was offered. You are also not understanding what is being said here, based upon your present comments. On that basis, there will be little to no choice difference on your part before and after reading the book. Tom teaches you how to fish, not hands you a fish in the old metaphorical tale. You must then learn how to become a fisherman, incorporating this knowledge into your being, on your own. That is simply the way that our reality works. Interact as best you can and pay attention to the feedback.

Surely you picked up some idea as to how to better make choices versus entirely by whim and desire before?

Ted


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:54 am 
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Ted i understand what you are saying....
And i didnt read the book as an intellectual act....
But what i am asking for is a general guideline....
I am not saying that tom plan every moment of my life....I just asked for guideline...


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:35 am 
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But kyubi, we are giving you that guideline above or at least I am. Using the best care that you can as you are and paying attention to the feedback is it. For the reasons I stated above, Tom will not tell you anything greatly different. He will perhaps say it a little differently and if hearing it in Tom's words will be the only thing that satisfies you, then I guess that you will simply have to wait. Your ability to receive and understand feedback will vary from others as this is again, subjective. But even if it comes only from those with whom you interact in their responses, you will have feedback. Tom cannot tell you what that might be nor what your subjective interpretation of it might be. If you can perceive and interpret it, you might also receive feedback from the LCS. But Tom cannot know that 'you' in the general sense of a reader of his books can notice and make use of that feedback. I'm not making this up. Everything is subjective. In such a situation, anything that anyone tells you in terms of specifics will be misleading. Make up a little vignette of hypothetical action/feedback would be misleading in the sense that it assumes a certain action on your part but cannot define your Intent and it would also assume a certain feedback reaction on the part of the other with again, their Intent unknown. Reality is subjective and thus you must learn how best to interface with it yourself, just as stated above. The same situation as applies in Tom refusing to provide descriptions of NPMR as he sees it. If you refuse to accept this then there is nothing else that I can see to say to you.

Ted


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:43 am 
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How about this kyubi? :)

"ic: " ...yet does this mean we are generally burdened with having to definitely live an X number of additional lives? How best to optimize maximum experience? Awareness in the present?"

Tom: Yes, there is too much to learn (at the being level), too much growth required to accomplish it all in a single PMR lifetime. X may be larger or smaller based on how quickly and effectively you are able to learn. Maximizing your growth rate - the evolution of your consciousness -- requires three mutually interdependent things to work together -- much like the mutual interdependence of wisdom, experience, and knowledge as discussed above. The first is awareness. Awareness of yourself, of your intent, of your consciousness, of your fear, ego, and beliefs, of your potential choices, of what is important and what is not, of how you interact with your environment. Awareness of your environment including other people, being present in the moment, being aware of what others are thinking and feeling, as well as of their needs and how you might affect them, being aware of a larger reality and your place and function in it, of where you are going and how you are going to get there. Awareness of the dynamics of relationship from the perspective of the big picture. That is a lot of awareness to develop. The second is to let go of fear and ego (wants needs, desires, beliefs, and expectations) -- from this, competency, focus, trust, and effectiveness develops to allow the being to optimize the productivity of its interactions and understand the purpose of its existence. The third is to embrace change and uncertainty -- make a constant and consistent effort to change, to grow up, to internalize, absorb, integrate, and organize the results of one and two above into a new way of being, a new perspective. a new reality in which a new you exists. Your reality evolves and expands as you evolve and expand. This last one requires a long term view, a desire to improve yourself more than your situation, gumption, stick-to-itiveness, drive, energy, and focus over a lifetime.

That's all. A short list. Get all that done and you will maximize the value of your daily experience and be off to a good start."

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=3922s&start=15


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:35 am 
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Ky,

A simple answer, but it might help:

When it is time to make any choice, Choose the choice that seems as Just ("just" as in "justice") to you.

Since peoples' concept of Justice evolves over time (that is, experiences), it would probably be wrong of me to try to describe very much what the term might represent.

-Montana


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:13 am 
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Quote:
Quote:
Hi kyubi,
Welcome to Tom's MBT discussion forums. Do you need specific directions on how not to be a jerk?
Bette
no, but i do need specific directions on how to be a nice guy.........
anyway msagansk and Ted, i will check the links.........
there must be some application of the knowledge gained from this book........if its just as simple like keep living your life because this space time is designed to automatically raise your consciousness than there is no use of big picture
if i have read this book than there must be difference in my choice making compare to before reading the book........and i want explanation of that
I have found that even before I discovered MBT in 2003 and then read it in 2008 that it is easier to not be a bad guy than it is to be a good guy. I wasn't saying you were a jerk by the way, sorry if it felt like that. I have been living basically trying not to be a jerk. I don't rip people off or lie to them to get my way. If I was a guy I would not sexually abuse any children or anyone, and as a female I would attempt to prevent abuse as I could for others. If I was in a relationship it would be an honest one, no cheating, no lying, and your going to want to not kill people unless there is no other way to protect others or yourself from them killing you. Be genuine and attentive to strangers as you interact with them and try to understand that most people are doing the best they can with what they have to work with when you find yourself in a situation with someone emotional or reactive. Stop and think rather than just beng emotional and reactive back. Is that better?
Love
Bette

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what is?
Consciousness.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:37 pm 
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Don't act on impulse, if you feel offended. Act on impulse, if you'd like to do anything good to anybody. Think, that everything good and bad will pass. If it hurts right now, it is very much possible, that you would hardly remember this in five or ten years. Be equally kind to yourself and to others. Don't think what you can get in return, when you do something good to someone. LCS has its books in order, and your good intent will never pass unnoticed.

Lena

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:58 pm 
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This is my summary of the method applied (fundamentalist MBTOEism)

1- meditation, likely mantric, 2x20 minutes per day
2- pay attention to how your intent->decisions->actions->feedback feels in the medium term, especially the interplay of ego, fear and love especially regarding your interactions with others
3- explore PSI empirically, especially OBE, but no more than 2 hours per day, stay grounded in PMR,
4- drop in to civilization, there is no need to drop out
5- strive for intoxicant and sugar free vegetarianism
6- strive for open and skeptical empiricism, believe nothing, and fully deploy your left hemisphere...think
7- embrace challenges as well as opportunities, this is what you are here for, the greater the challenges, the greater the opportunity to increase your quality
8- have fun, embrace sillyness, don't be a stuffed shirt, don't take yourself too seriously
9- focus on increasing your own quality, let others be, mentally, unless they ask or there is an appropriate opportunity to increase their decision space
10- be open to teaching others as a secondary goal, in socially appropriate context, change others primarily through loving intent and action

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:56 am 
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I haven't even finished reading MBT yet but i think I can understand kyubi's dissapointment.
Everybody here is correct, there is no quick easy magic formula, but...

The missconception that giving examples is less productive is partly an insight and partly a generalisation.
You understand that giving the example changes the taker (this is the insight).
You understand that most people (this is the generalisation) are hungry takers that take things personal.
It's a missconception that examples are less productive because changing the taker can be productive and not all people take things personal.
Quote:
Don't act on impulse, if you feel offended. Act on impulse, if you'd like to do anything good to anybody.
I love this kind of programming, lena does it both ways under different conditions.

Also, it's natural to try all strategies, evaluate and enhance the ones that 'work' but don't prematurly disregard the ones that did'nt 'work' untill they're too destructive or dead (Humanity).

Also, this is an age of fast change, this generations is used to speed, so quickly:

If it's more productive for the quality of conciousness produce an ongoing effort to enhance a list of examples starting from kroeran's excellent summary. I know it benefitted even thou I did'nt take anything personal.
If it's not more productive for the quality of conciousness, think up a strategy (or strategies) to handle the questions about quick magic fomulae in a more productive way.
Or else continue what has worked so far :)

My contribution to kroeran's summary is:
6- strive for open and skeptical empiricism, believe nothing, and fully deploy both hemispheres...think & feel

oh and something, somewhere about investigating, embracing and integrating your dark side(s) because without em, you're less than whole.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:30 am 
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Let's try to get it across again. Tom has explained that it is your intent in an action, Intent as I like to make it clear that it has a special meaning as Tom uses the word, which determines whether the result although very different from what you had intended (wanted to happen) might be viewed as positive or negative on your part. The result might be bad but not a negative to your account as your Intent was positive. Bad things still happen although good people might have good Intent. Your Intent is associated with you specifically. A generalization such as the famous one by the Shakespearean character Polonius as "this above all to thine own self be true" does not really say anything. Specifically, your Intent is not known. So you could deliberately do someone grievous harm and be true to this generalization while your Intent was bad. Stating a list of preferred actions is misleading as your Intent is not also specified in that list. So a good action based upon a bad Intent is still not a positive result. And a good action based upon a good Intent that still turns out badly is not a bad result in terms of your account as being a bad action.

Ted


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