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I didnt have a lot of extra time this morning but just wanted to thank,

AnoNymousX, Jim and John, for your postings since my last reply..

John, your reply especially I found to be quite thought- provoking and I think it deserves a fuller reply from me later :)

jim + AnoNymousX,

I would also like to take some time to reply to your postings as well

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AnoNymousX, i think before I make a longer post..

i am a bit unsure I understand what this here -
Perhaps, you could elaborate a bit more ( for those along with myself who do not fully understand this..)
.. some specifics on what this entailed for you ?

Otherwise, i am obviously concerned you had to endure all these bad dreams you were describing with the rest of our posting..

Jim + John,

I will get some replies for your other postings soon !

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I just wanted to catch up on replies this morning :)

AnoNymousX -

Thanks for all your postings..
You have quite the interesting and diverse background with all of this . and your postings are always interesting reading in the thread..

Jim ..

Thanks for your last reply..
I had a little bit of a theory as to why it at least a little bit harder to see the ego in dreams as where its maybe a bit more obvious in PMR..
I think it has to do with the continuous nature of our reality in PMR..
So what I mean there is in many of my ego related activities they were built up gradually over time.. Becoming large creatures of habit, if you will..
Of course as opposed to this the dream reality a a discontinuous nature to our activities there..
However, as Jim as pointed out , the ego i feel can still be identified without too much trouble in dreams..

John ,
First, before I get into the "meat" of your posting, John...
Let me just mention i see a humbleness to our postings that to me indicates progress for both of us :)
The terms " work in progress" and my "low confidence attempts" at explaining some of this.. But where I always sense its all just the "tip of the iceberg" ,
even if we do end up unraveling something small in the grand scheme of all this :)
Now I always felt these metaphoric terms ( as used with MBT terminology) small c + Big C ... , refer to components of consciousness in this manner-
Small c = IUOC's ,...
big C = the LCS

Do you feel i have this wrong John ?

Than thru out the rest of your posting with your use of the term "subconscious" that seems very close to the meaning and usage i have for the term " Higher self",, So those 2 terms to me being quite synonymous..

Assuming you sometimes use the term 'higher self", did you have a somewhat different meaning for that terms as opposed to how you were using the word "Subconscious" in your posting ?

Brian, here is Tom's 2nd iteration with regard to definitions of MBT concepts. The section on consciousness represents the source of my interpretation from MBT. I combined evidence from other models as well:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8713&p=78101&hilit= ... tar#p78101

I, in the fall of my life, am putting together a conclusion resulting from my investigative research into many models. Once complete, I intend to follow it through "transition". My previous post is part of that ongoing effort. I defer to the Monroe/Cambell/Bardon models as the foundation. The LCS sent me a profound message during my first OBE. If not for that message, as my driving force, I would never have made it to this forum as part of my search for knowledge. Balancing this new knowledge and experience in harmony with humility can be a challenge. I learned long ago in the martial arts: how we perceive ourselves my not be how others perceive us. Overcoming this fact has been an equal challenge.

My understanding of higher self has been in evolution. There is distinction between Monroe/Campbell and Bardon. The bridge is the acknowledgement of advanced consciousness entities referenced by Tom more specifically as "adepts". I believe Monroe refers to them as God-men. I think these beings are each an IUOC/higher self/ over soul that have "graduated." The are also referred to as "Masters". Further, the IUOC is comprised of and creates a cluster of FWAUS.

We humans walk around in a waking state of consciousness and for the most part have no awareness or understanding of our subconscious. The subconscious is a very important according to other models as well as the ancients. Becoming one with my subconscious has been my goal.

John,

thanks for your most recent reply..

I found this last reply even more interesting than your previous ones, for reasons I hope to explain later in my own posting..

First on this item -
Just from reviewing the Tom's second iteration only:

i still found that - Small c = IUOC's ,...
big C = the LCS

.. as the way that Tom uses those terms..

However, concerning our own subjective paths in this I still appreciate both the thought you have put into your interpretation of those terms to what they mean to you personally and subjectively + the work and time you have put into the formation of your own model reading other models besides just Tom + MBT,,

Finally , I do not think we should get too caught up with terms and metaphors as you have so much meaningful content to share for the terminology and metaphors you chose to define them as..

Have an additional question for you here-
By "transition" here i assume you mean the transitional reality frame we encounter after PMR passing ?
I really love what you are doing here...
First deriving and accumulating the information from the different models , and than after working on setting up your path..which i assume would always be a work in progress as you mentioned in an earlier posting..

Thanks for explaining your distinction between "higher self" + " sub conscious"....

I am still having some trouble understanding your concept of "sub conscious", however..
I think perhaps some of the difficulty for me is i tend to see our iuoc/ self as being this singular unit of consciousness in all of its forms, be it of a multi dimensional nature..

i can take an additional guess but i have a feeling this a very low confidence try on my part :)
But than would you see this sub conscious/ being level akin to our IUOC's and than perhaps the intellect side of us to be avatar/ FWAU's ?

Thanks for any additional elaboration you can provide on your metaphor "sub conscious" ?

Brian, Let’s drill down on this a little bit but first here is Tom’s definition of consciousness:

Consciousness (sometimes called “mind”) is an evolving (self-modifying) awareness that employs both will and intent to facilitate its evolution. An awareness that makes intentional, willful choices is called a Consciousness. ~ Tom Campbell (TC) 2nd iteration

Make a mental note of the reference to the alternate metaphor for consciousness –“mind”.

Here is Tom’s definition of the LCS: Once you are able to conceive of Consciousness as the super-system that creates everything else, most of the confusion will quickly disappear along with the need to distinguish between the two [big C little c]. Consciousness, [the larger Consciousness system (LCS) and, thus, all the reality within our knowing is most accurately modeled by a digital information system. ~ 2nd Iteration

Here is Tom’s definition of an IUOC: An individuated unit of Consciousness (IUOC), a subset of the LCS, is also best modeled by a digital information system. The IUOC is the result of various FWAUs it has played. It is the accumulator of evolutionary progress. It starts out neutral with great potential, jumps into a VR to get experience, then tries to improve the quality of its choices as it cycles through experience packets growing toward becoming love.

Here is Tom’s definition of FWAU: The FWAU is the experiencer in the VR. It is a chunk of the IUOC making real-time choices in a particular VR that more or less express the quality the IUOC has accumulated thus far.

Here Tom distinguishes between the IUOC and FWAU: The IUOC can see the larger pattern of what works what doesn’t over many experience packets and learn from that cumulative feedback. The FWAU gains from the IUOC’s learning but is forced to apply that learning by being/choosing within the VR, rather than through intellectual assessment. ~Acronyms and terminology specific to My Big Toe-IUOC->FWAU

We are FWAUs (sub-set of an IUOC). Now let’s look at Tom’s definition of big C little c: When talking about the whole Conscious entity (where Consciousness is primarily expressed at the being level for normal individuals) we use Consciousness with a capital “C” sometimes referred as “big C consciousness”. And, when talking about the normal intellect-based awareness (where the intellect is dominated by fear and ego), we use consciousness with a lower case “c” sometimes referred to as “little c consciousness” or “local consciousness”. In summary, big C Consciousness represents the larger system and our individual connection or integration with that larger system while little c consciousness refers to our individual intellectual awareness of us, others, and our environment. Big C consciousness contains little c consciousness. Little c consciousness is a part, a tiny subset, a creation, of big C consciousness. Once you are able to conceive of Consciousness as the super-system that creates everything else, most of the confusion will quickly disappear along with the need to distinguish between the two.~ TC 2nd iteration.

As FWAUs our “waking state” or conscious “mind” represents our reality as is defined by Tom as little c. Our big C consciousness represents our subconscious “mind”. The subconscious mind is always working but becomes animated for most of us when we sleep. The being level (big C) (subconscious mind) is our link to the LCS/IUOC. When the LCS permits, we awaken (peel back the layers of fear and ego) to discover our true-selves; that being multi-dimensional FWAUs. One among the FWAU cluster(IUOC) becomes a “Master” and we all graduate to the next level of consciousness evolution.

This is my take on it so far.

Yes, transition is death.

thanks John for all the work here finding these resources to MBT terms and content :)

it is always helpfull l for me to get someone else's input on this and especially someone I respect ..

I think there is always going to be at least a few difference due to our individual interpretations of the materials..

Of course we never take these as "right or wrong" , but rather i look at this positively , in that it provides further food for thought ..

Further i found it interesting that I had a different perspective once i read thru your posting a second time as opposed to my thoughts and conclusions the first time reading them thru. What I mean here was i found myself resonating with your ideas on a closer level on my second reading thru..

I am currently working at getting back to more consistent data stream changes at night. although the dream recall and the practice i do with dreams will always hold a place in my heart,,,

Lo mismo. Thanks, wishing you success. Funny, I thought a dream was a metaphor for a data stream change.

John,
Yes thanks,
I agree you could look at dreams as D/S changes ..
There certainly (mostly) detached from our PMR lives, right ?

Brian, I am not sure if detachment/attachment from our PMR lives makes any difference. I can offer three examples: 1) I sense separation and decide to use the roll-out method. I rolled out towards and through my wife. It startled her out of bed. I wake up. She later confirms her reaction. 2) Separation then floating into the other side of the house as my wife walked around the corner, we met. She registered surprise. I wake up. She later denies the rendezvous. 3) I am sitting in my living room. My wife answers the front door directly across from me. I wake up. It was a dream. No need to query her.