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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:25 pm 
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And that people, is how I own fear and destroy massive chunks of ego.

My lesson;

Do not sit there and spew dogma in the guise of science and guidance in a vein attempt to step on others' free will. Too share my experiences was all that was required of me. YOU ALL HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO WHAT EVER YOU PLEASE AND LEARN YOUR OWN WAY.

When I understood this, all the pressure in my head subsided. I slept so soundly. No more dreams about it. No further experience required.

Safe travels,
Nathan.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:30 pm 
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And that people, is how I own fear and destroy massive chunks of ego.

My lesson;

Do not sit there and spew dogma in the guise of science and guidance in a vein attempt to step on others' free will. Too share my experiences was all that was required of me. YOU ALL HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO WHAT EVER YOU PLEASE AND LEARN YOUR OWN WAY.

When I understood this, all the pressure in my head subsided. I slept so soundly. No more dreams about it. No further experience required.

Safe travels,
Nathan.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:56 pm 
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I don't know why it doubled up on that.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:32 am 
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I didnt have a lot of extra time this morning but just wanted to thank,

Nath, Jim and John, for your postings since my last reply..

John, your reply especially I found to be quite thought- provoking and I think it deserves a fuller reply from me later :)

jim + Nath,

I would also like to take some time to reply to your postings as well


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:04 am 
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Hey guys,
I guess I should elaborate on my last post. Please bear with me as it gets quite intense.

One month ago I was in deep meditation, exploring a Focus33 state and I received TWO green R.O.T.E's(data dumps). This to me is symbolic of the heart as Buddhism is one of the systems I adhere to. Head pain/pressure begins along with terrible dreams where I am being told something that I cannot understand and it makes me sick to my stomach. These dreams continue. I intuitively begin posting more than I ever do on this forum. I dream of a group of people who tell me I have to do something if I want to join them. I wake up feeling sick in my stomach and a song repeating in my head.
"You are a mouth without a heart
An action without meaning
And you walk afraid"
A week later I begin exploring Focus33 again and I am shown the MBT forum page. It zooms in and on the bottom of the page it says in quotes, YOUR ASSIGNMENT, but I cannot extract anymore information. The terrible dreams continue and I am visited by myself. I am burnt to a crisp, flesh falling off etc. The following night I go to sleep with intent to understand this scorched version of me. I awake with a song repeating in my head. (don't panic reader it is only a reference to ego)
"Killing hurts
It has to be done
For peace and love
Who's number one
Self help, self help, confidence"
The obviousness is lost on me and my dreams begin to reflect that. I dream that I am lost and cannot find my way, to anywhere, and not one single person could help me. They kept leading me to nowhere.

Back in PMR and I begin arguing with people, trying to tell them what to do on this forum and else where. I realize I have dug myself a hole.Then the R.O.T.E started to unravel. I have this innate desire to tell people what to do and not for the right reasons. I did begin to notice(hence my "am I digging deeper into ignorance and jack-arsery" statement). I HAD FOUND A FEAR and all I wanted to do was run away, as far away from this as possible. So I tried to own it by mocking myself in front of everyone with the Monty Python "brave sir robin ran away" link. Facing/owning it worked, it led to an understanding and the pain/pressure in my head immediately subsided and Kundalini energy rushed into my head, specifically the Temporal Lobe area and once more I felt the bliss I had experienced so many years ago.

Also, my "spew dogma in the guise of science and guidance" statement was not a dig at Tom. I understand he has a very specific agenda that is far different to mine. All I am trying to do is help people understand the hectic/heavy emotion and experience that goes along with destroying and recreating oneself. I can best do that by sharing my experiences in a 100% honest manner. Not dictating.

Please tell me if this is unclear.

Safe travels,
Nathan.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:53 pm 
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Nath, i think before I make a longer post..

i am a bit unsure I understand what this here -
Quote:
One month ago I was in deep meditation, exploring a Focus33 state and I received TWO green R.O.T.E's(data dumps).
Perhaps, you could elaborate a bit more ( for those along with myself who do not fully understand this..)
.. some specifics on what this entailed for you ?

Otherwise, i am obviously concerned you had to endure all these bad dreams you were describing with the rest of our posting..

Jim + John,

I will get some replies for your other postings soon !


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:57 pm 
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Hello Brian50,
Quote:
Quote:
One month ago I was in deep meditation, exploring a Focus33 state and I received TWO green R.O.T.E's(data dumps).
Perhaps, you could elaborate a bit more ( for those along with myself who do not fully understand this..)
.. some specifics on what this entailed for you ?
I certainly can try...
The Focus33 state is a deep Delta(I think) Altered State of Consciousness. It tends to have themes of totality. That is, complete integration of the 4 Psychological Functions. Sensation, Feeling, Thinking and iNtuition. This is the simplest way I can put it.

A R.O.T.E is basically a ball of thought/experience packet which is transferred from one consciousness to another. Kind of like a Knowing or iNtuition that you have to make sense of. A "Data Dump" of information as Tom says. It is an acronym that Bob Monroe came up with and stands for Related or Relative Organized Thought Energy. It usually comes with some sort of hideous emotion, but I have come to understand that means some sort of epiphany is on the way.
Quote:
Otherwise, i am obviously concerned you had to endure all these bad dreams you were describing with the rest of our posting..
I cannot tell you how to be, but personally I have found the word "concerned" to be a pretty little intellectual justification of fear. I have gone down the path of fearing fear and it didn't work out too well. It just kept me in a loop. NO FEAR is the key to change. These dreams are great, and merely a reflection of my ignorance and unwillingness to listen to the Larger Consciousness System.

Is that clear enough my friend?

Also, Specialis Sapientia feel free to join in. I think Ted would have been all up in this conversation buy now.

Safe travels,
Nathan.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:53 am 
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I just wanted to catch up on replies this morning :)

Nath -

Thanks for all your postings..
You have quite the interesting and diverse background with all of this . and your postings are always interesting reading in the thread..

Jim ..

Thanks for your last reply..
Quote:
That is, I also noticed the same ego/fear issues I have in PMR, are very apparent in the dream virtual reality. You know, like not being good enough or not taken seriously enough, not doing enough, etc.. I could see all of that in my dreams.
I had a little bit of a theory as to why it at least a little bit harder to see the ego in dreams as where its maybe a bit more obvious in PMR..
I think it has to do with the continuous nature of our reality in PMR..
So what I mean there is in many of my ego related activities they were built up gradually over time.. Becoming large creatures of habit, if you will..
Of course as opposed to this the dream reality a a discontinuous nature to our activities there..
However, as Jim as pointed out , the ego i feel can still be identified without too much trouble in dreams..

John ,
Quote:
Brian, subsequent to your statement below, please find my take on it so far, a work in process:
First, before I get into the "meat" of your posting, John...
Let me just mention i see a humbleness to our postings that to me indicates progress for both of us :)
The terms " work in progress" and my "low confidence attempts" at explaining some of this.. But where I always sense its all just the "tip of the iceberg" ,
even if we do end up unraveling something small in the grand scheme of all this :)
Quote:
The “conscious” level is what is referred to in MBT as the intellectual (small c) consciousness and the subconscious level is the being level (big C).
Now I always felt these metaphoric terms ( as used with MBT terminology) small c + Big C ... , refer to components of consciousness in this manner-
Small c = IUOC's ,...
big C = the LCS

Do you feel i have this wrong John ?

Than thru out the rest of your posting with your use of the term "subconscious" that seems very close to the meaning and usage i have for the term " Higher self",, So those 2 terms to me being quite synonymous..

Assuming you sometimes use the term 'higher self", did you have a somewhat different meaning for that terms as opposed to how you were using the word "Subconscious" in your posting ?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:48 am 
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Quote:

John ,
Quote:
Brian, subsequent to your statement below, please find my take on it so far, a work in process:
First, before I get into the "meat" of your posting, John...
Let me just mention i see a humbleness to our postings that to me indicates progress for both of us :)
The terms " work in progress" and my "low confidence attempts" at explaining some of this.. But where I always sense its all just the "tip of the iceberg" ,
even if we do end up unraveling something small in the grand scheme of all this :)
Quote:
The “conscious” level is what is referred to in MBT as the intellectual (small c) consciousness and the subconscious level is the being level (big C).
Now I always felt these metaphoric terms ( as used with MBT terminology) small c + Big C ... , refer to components of consciousness in this manner-
Small c = IUOC's ,...
big C = the LCS

Do you feel i have this wrong John ?

Than thru out the rest of your posting with your use of the term "subconscious" that seems very close to the meaning and usage i have for the term " Higher self",, So those 2 terms to me being quite synonymous..

Assuming you sometimes use the term 'higher self", did you have a somewhat different meaning for that terms as opposed to how you were using the word "Subconscious" in your posting ?
Brian, here is Tom's 2nd iteration with regard to definitions of MBT concepts. The section on consciousness represents the source of my interpretation from MBT. I combined evidence from other models as well:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8713&p=78101&hilit= ... tar#p78101

I, in the fall of my life, am putting together a conclusion resulting from my investigative research into many models. Once complete, I intend to follow it through "transition". My previous post is part of that ongoing effort. I defer to the Monroe/Cambell/Bardon models as the foundation. The LCS sent me a profound message during my first OBE. If not for that message, as my driving force, I would never have made it to this forum as part of my search for knowledge. Balancing this new knowledge and experience in harmony with humility can be a challenge. I learned long ago in the martial arts: how we perceive ourselves my not be how others perceive us. Overcoming this fact has been an equal challenge.

My understanding of higher self has been in evolution. There is distinction between Monroe/Campbell and Bardon. The bridge is the acknowledgement of advanced consciousness entities referenced by Tom more specifically as "adepts". I believe Monroe refers to them as God-men. I think these beings are each an IUOC/higher self/ over soul that have "graduated." The are also referred to as "Masters". Further, the IUOC is comprised of and creates a cluster of FWAUS.

We humans walk around in a waking state of consciousness and for the most part have no awareness or understanding of our subconscious. The subconscious is a very important according to other models as well as the ancients. Becoming one with my subconscious has been my goal.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:29 am 
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John,

thanks for your most recent reply..

I found this last reply even more interesting than your previous ones, for reasons I hope to explain later in my own posting..

First on this item -
Quote:
Brian, here is Tom's 2nd iteration with regard to definitions of MBT concepts. The section on consciousness represents the source of my interpretation from MBT. I combined evidence from other models as well:
Just from reviewing the Tom's second iteration only:

i still found that - Small c = IUOC's ,...
big C = the LCS

.. as the way that Tom uses those terms..

However, concerning our own subjective paths in this I still appreciate both the thought you have put into your interpretation of those terms to what they mean to you personally and subjectively + the work and time you have put into the formation of your own model reading other models besides just Tom + MBT,,

Finally , I do not think we should get too caught up with terms and metaphors as you have so much meaningful content to share for the terminology and metaphors you chose to define them as..

Have an additional question for you here-
Quote:
I, in the fall of my life, am putting together a conclusion resulting from my investigative research into many models. Once complete, I intend to follow it through "transition".
By "transition" here i assume you mean the transitional reality frame we encounter after PMR passing ?
Quote:
My previous post is part of that ongoing effort. I defer to the Monroe/Cambell/Bardon models as the foundation.
I really love what you are doing here...
First deriving and accumulating the information from the different models , and than after working on setting up your path..which i assume would always be a work in progress as you mentioned in an earlier posting..

Thanks for explaining your distinction between "higher self" + " sub conscious"....

I am still having some trouble understanding your concept of "sub conscious", however..
I think perhaps some of the difficulty for me is i tend to see our iuoc/ self as being this singular unit of consciousness in all of its forms, be it of a multi dimensional nature..

i can take an additional guess but i have a feeling this a very low confidence try on my part :)
But than would you see this sub conscious/ being level akin to our IUOC's and than perhaps the intellect side of us to be avatar/ FWAU's ?

Thanks for any additional elaboration you can provide on your metaphor "sub conscious" ?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:41 am 
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Brian, Let’s drill down on this a little bit but first here is Tom’s definition of consciousness:

Consciousness (sometimes called “mind”) is an evolving (self-modifying) awareness that employs both will and intent to facilitate its evolution. An awareness that makes intentional, willful choices is called a Consciousness. ~ Tom Campbell (TC) 2nd iteration

Make a mental note of the reference to the alternate metaphor for consciousness –“mind”.

Here is Tom’s definition of the LCS: Once you are able to conceive of Consciousness as the super-system that creates everything else, most of the confusion will quickly disappear along with the need to distinguish between the two [big C little c]. Consciousness, [the larger Consciousness system (LCS) and, thus, all the reality within our knowing is most accurately modeled by a digital information system. ~ 2nd Iteration

Here is Tom’s definition of an IUOC: An individuated unit of Consciousness (IUOC), a subset of the LCS, is also best modeled by a digital information system. The IUOC is the result of various FWAUs it has played. It is the accumulator of evolutionary progress. It starts out neutral with great potential, jumps into a VR to get experience, then tries to improve the quality of its choices as it cycles through experience packets growing toward becoming love.

Here is Tom’s definition of FWAU: The FWAU is the experiencer in the VR. It is a chunk of the IUOC making real-time choices in a particular VR that more or less express the quality the IUOC has accumulated thus far.

Here Tom distinguishes between the IUOC and FWAU: The IUOC can see the larger pattern of what works what doesn’t over many experience packets and learn from that cumulative feedback. The FWAU gains from the IUOC’s learning but is forced to apply that learning by being/choosing within the VR, rather than through intellectual assessment. ~Acronyms and terminology specific to My Big Toe-IUOC->FWAU

We are FWAUs (sub-set of an IUOC). Now let’s look at Tom’s definition of big C little c: When talking about the whole Conscious entity (where Consciousness is primarily expressed at the being level for normal individuals) we use Consciousness with a capital “C” sometimes referred as “big C consciousness”. And, when talking about the normal intellect-based awareness (where the intellect is dominated by fear and ego), we use consciousness with a lower case “c” sometimes referred to as “little c consciousness” or “local consciousness”. In summary, big C Consciousness represents the larger system and our individual connection or integration with that larger system while little c consciousness refers to our individual intellectual awareness of us, others, and our environment. Big C consciousness contains little c consciousness. Little c consciousness is a part, a tiny subset, a creation, of big C consciousness. Once you are able to conceive of Consciousness as the super-system that creates everything else, most of the confusion will quickly disappear along with the need to distinguish between the two.~ TC 2nd iteration.

As FWAUs our “waking state” or conscious “mind” represents our reality as is defined by Tom as little c. Our big C consciousness represents our subconscious “mind”. The subconscious mind is always working but becomes animated for most of us when we sleep. The being level (big C) (subconscious mind) is our link to the LCS/IUOC. When the LCS permits, we awaken (peel back the layers of fear and ego) to discover our true-selves; that being multi-dimensional FWAUs. One among the FWAU cluster(IUOC) becomes a “Master” and we all graduate to the next level of consciousness evolution.

This is my take on it so far.

Yes, transition is death.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:35 am 
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thanks John for all the work here finding these resources to MBT terms and content :)

it is always helpfull l for me to get someone else's input on this and especially someone I respect ..

I think there is always going to be at least a few difference due to our individual interpretations of the materials..

Of course we never take these as "right or wrong" , but rather i look at this positively , in that it provides further food for thought ..

Further i found it interesting that I had a different perspective once i read thru your posting a second time as opposed to my thoughts and conclusions the first time reading them thru. What I mean here was i found myself resonating with your ideas on a closer level on my second reading thru..

I am currently working at getting back to more consistent data stream changes at night. although the dream recall and the practice i do with dreams will always hold a place in my heart,,,


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:20 am 
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Quote:
I am currently working at getting back to more consistent data stream changes at night. although the dream recall and the practice i do with dreams will always hold a place in my heart,,,
Lo mismo. Thanks, wishing you success. Funny, I thought a dream was a metaphor for a data stream change.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:48 am 
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John,
Quote:
Funny, I thought a dream was a metaphor for a data stream change.
Yes thanks,
I agree you could look at dreams as D/S changes ..
There certainly (mostly) detached from our PMR lives, right ?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:19 pm 
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Quote:

Yes thanks,
I agree you could look at dreams as D/S changes ..
There certainly (mostly) detached from our PMR lives, right ?

Brian, I am not sure if detachment/attachment from our PMR lives makes any difference. I can offer three examples: 1) I sense separation and decide to use the roll-out method. I rolled out towards and through my wife. It startled her out of bed. I wake up. She later confirms her reaction. 2) Separation then floating into the other side of the house as my wife walked around the corner, we met. She registered surprise. I wake up. She later denies the rendezvous. 3) I am sitting in my living room. My wife answers the front door directly across from me. I wake up. It was a dream. No need to query her.


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