MBT Question and Answer website

Tom is participating with oversight if not actively. You might find a role in which you can contribute yourself. (Help Wanted)
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Lena
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Re: MBT Question and Answer website

Post by Lena »

Congratulations on an embedded video project!

Lena
'Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones ignorance.' Confucius.
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Re: MBT Question and Answer website

Post by Ted Vollers »

That just means that I now have to create a new thread for every one of the 200+ videos on Tom's channel and sort them out, organize and find them to begin with. It goes slowly as so much information has to be correlated to make it maximally useful. There is little value to just slapping them into a post.

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Re: MBT Question and Answer website

Post by Sainbury »

Ted - did you get the YouTube list I emailed you?
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Re: MBT Question and Answer website

Post by Ted Vollers »

Yes, I remember it and put it in a 'safe place'. Just where that safe place is, I can't recall at this moment. I have a list but it was being compiled to create an archive on my computer and is not fully suitable for the kind of organization that is needed to make these videos more accessible. I thought I sent a copy of that list to you also. You are better organized than I am. I've got 1.5TB drives and some parts are getting over filled and are spilling over into other sections and things are not well organized. Could you readily resend it, it might help here? I hate Youtube.

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Re: MBT Question and Answer website

Post by Sainbury »

No, I sent you one a couple of days ago. I just re-sent it to your email address.
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Re: MBT Question and Answer website

Post by William12 »

Ted Vollers wrote:That just means that I now have to create a new thread for every one of the 200+ videos on Tom's channel and sort them out, organize and find them to begin with. It goes slowly as so much information has to be correlated to make it maximally useful. There is little value to just slapping them into a post.

Ted
I might consider to just start with the top 5-10 to get it going and get your feedback loop started. In software, this is known as the shinny ball problem. You have to balance the desire of getting the shinny ball perfect and every feature know to man built into it, or being practical and shipping something and evolving it as you go. Take a hint from the LCS and just evolve it. :-)
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Re: MBT Question and Answer website

Post by daveh »

William12 wrote:
Ted Vollers wrote:That just means that I now have to create a new thread for every one of the 200+ videos on Tom's channel and sort them out, organize and find them to begin with. It goes slowly as so much information has to be correlated to make it maximally useful. There is little value to just slapping them into a post.

Ted
I might consider to just start with the top 5-10 to get it going and get your feedback loop started. In software, this is known as the shinny ball problem. You have to balance the desire of getting the shinny ball perfect and every feature know to man built into it, or being practical and shipping something and evolving it as you go. Take a hint from the LCS and just evolve it. :-)
Good going folks, apologies for my delay in interacting. I've finished the books now so it's video's next. Could I possibly either 'un-recommend' one of Williams suggestions earlier (to lock down postings), or request posting access for myself to the new forum. If not, I won't be able to add the videos as I work my way through them. The other problem with presenting the videos in this way is what order will they be created in? Date order is unlikely to be best one as I don't expect them to have covered progressive contents from one to another.

Could I also suggest that some of us get together to discuss (collaborate) on a standardised format for us to use in creating posts into the new video forum. Just having the ability to embed a youtube video in a post is not really a solution to extracting the relevant information. We also need to add additional metadata as well as deciding how to mark up questions and answers. The new youtube BB code doesn't help us in extracting questions and answers from videos, it simply embeds a video within a post, and if discussions happen below that initial post, then the video will not be available after the first page of comments fills up. I think there are many considerations that need exploring before rushing off in populating a new section of the forum.

A word of caution in regard to the YouTube BB code that you have used: I believe that this will not work for Eastern countries as some of them are blocked from accessing youtube.com. There is some discussion about this somewhere I came across, which had an alternative code to use which directed people to their local youtube site instead of the american .com one.
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Re: MBT Question and Answer website

Post by daveh »

@William12

Are the screenshots that you created in the earlier posts from a publicly accessible phpBB site that we can use for testing purposes? We could then have a few relevant people with Admin access to be able to trial various ways of achieving things within phpBB.

Ted, would it be of any use to you to be able to test things without making changes to this live board?

I've not used phpBB myself personally, but I can set us up with a test site if it's of value.
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Re: MBT Question and Answer website

Post by Ted Vollers »

Dave,

I did not lose interest in what you were suggesting. It's rather that what William suggested turned out to be in line with what Tom wanted and was easy to implement since William did all the work of figuring it out and I only had to follow directions. Not counting the setting up of the forum and threads.

I don't understand exactly what would be involved nor what the results would be in terms of your suggestions while it was clear with William's suggestion. If it is something comparable, then no problem in doing it. But I do want a clear understanding of both cost (difficulty, labor intensity and perhaps bandwidth) versus benefits (not really sure what can be achieved). I'll probably be to the end of the week before I am ready to release the new video links for Tom for public access. I want it well enough along to make it clear what standards to meet in adding new Videos as Tom is wont to do.

So is there one software type to consider or more to select from? Do I (since I am the only person authorized and able to do so) have to go through all of Tom's posts and add in some kind of keyword linking? I'm not getting everything done that I should be doing as it is now. I have other projects that are going nowhere as it is now. In addition, I am somewhat confused now between this and your last e-mail. Are we talking Q/A from the board or from the videos? The videos will now have links on threads from here, without the confusion/chaos of Youtube. There are text files extracted from these videos which will gradually become available and I intend to insert after the post with the video in it. I will probably insert a dummy post after each video post to eventually house that text information and where it can be searched and annotated for key words. In this planning and discussion, we need to think in terms of this also and plan accordingly.

This is not something that the moderators can do or help with either, besides the fact that they have much more time limitations than I do.

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Re: MBT Question and Answer website

Post by William12 »

daveh wrote:
William12 wrote:
Ted Vollers wrote:That just means that I now have to create a new thread for every one of the 200+ videos on Tom's channel and sort them out, organize and find them to begin with. It goes slowly as so much information has to be correlated to make it maximally useful. There is little value to just slapping them into a post.
Ted
I might consider to just start with the top 5-10 to get it going and get your feedback loop started. In software, this is known as the shinny ball problem. You have to balance the desire of getting the shinny ball perfect and every feature know to man built into it, or being practical and shipping something and evolving it as you go. Take a hint from the LCS and just evolve it. :-)
Good going folks, apologies for my delay in interacting. I've finished the books now so it's video's next. Could I possibly either 'un-recommend' one of Williams suggestions earlier (to lock down postings), or request posting access for myself to the new forum. If not, I won't be able to add the videos as I work my way through them. The other problem with presenting the videos in this way is what order will they be created in? Date order is unlikely to be best one as I don't expect them to have covered progressive contents from one to another.
Could I also suggest that some of us get together to discuss (collaborate) on a standardised format for us to use in creating posts into the new video forum. Just having the ability to embed a youtube video in a post is not really a solution to extracting the relevant information. We also need to add additional metadata as well as deciding how to mark up questions and answers. The new youtube BB code doesn't help us in extracting questions and answers from videos, it simply embeds a video within a post, and if discussions happen below that initial post, then the video will not be available after the first page of comments fills up. I think there are many considerations that need exploring before rushing off in populating a new section of the forum.

A word of caution in regard to the YouTube BB code that you have used: I believe that this will not work for Eastern countries as some of them are blocked from accessing youtube.com. There is some discussion about this somewhere I came across, which had an alternative code to use which directed people to their local youtube site instead of the american .com one.
My thoughts on those thoughts:
1) Lock down. I suggested lock down of new Topics only in the official Video forum tree. Not lock down posts under the topics. I assume Ted wants to keep some form of order in the "Tom's Video" (what every he called it) Forum and not have it spackled with topics from public which would water down the reason for it existing in the first place. That is not to say we should not have a "Other Videos" forum for other interesting videos submitted and organized by the community. I think that has value also. Just Ted has a lot on his plate and I did not want to add any more confusion to the task at hand of getting Tom's video forum to light up.

2) In terms of order. IMO, it seems to make most sense to have chronological order if you have to pick some order besides random adds. I can't think of a better way to do it. I would suggest sticking with some form of naming conventions however and using a number in the title. This will make videos easy to refer to by number instead of having to remember and write out Title names in posts. For example, Ted could say "just check out video #5" for that. So what are LCD for title. Tom in there to define it as Tom video, a number, and the short text description seems to make sense.
Something like below:
TCV1: Earth Changes; The Altered States of America?
TCV2: What Happens After We Die?
...
Need to balance readability with reasonable length constraints so it does not become unwieldy.

3) The embedded video was never suggested as a solution to extracting the relevant information. Naturally, it does not attempt to and can not do any of that. This is just a first step. Using key word tags will probably come next, but I don't currently see that as native in phpBB. Maybe a module.

4) I don't see a real problem with question/answers below the video topic as you do. This is just naturally how it happens on the BB and people understand it. I do agree that moderators may have to be a bit strick on wondering posts to keep it OT and reduce the post count and duplicate questions.

5) I don't have knowledge of how all countries block youtube or not. No project can be all things to all people. If you design for 100%, you deliver 10% to all. Every software project would love to get 80%-90% on target. You can only do what you can do. Some people don't even have internet or still on dial-up. Those folks have larger issues to sort out. We also included the direct link under the video, so at least they can figure it out the alternative. Unless there is some evidence of more then a few users having that issue, you can't design to straw man requirements - no one has the resources for that.
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Re: MBT Question and Answer website

Post by Ted Vollers »

Here is the kind of layout I'm making for the new Video forum.
NewVideoForum.JPG
NewVideoForum.JPG (121.67 KiB) Viewed 4050 times
Here is a detail view of one subforum.
NewVideoForumDetail.JPG
NewVideoForumDetail.JPG (68.09 KiB) Viewed 4050 times
What I am running into is peculiarities of the phpBB that are making this difficult and tedious. I have to use sticky threads or everything wanders around. But I have never used them for trying to order things so completely. By trial and error what I find is that Stickies are ordered in creation order within their own block, not by conversion into a sticky thread as I first assumed as logical. So in order to create an ordered forum, matching the order of the contents I am showing in the outer link, you have to enter new threads in precisely the order that you wish to display, bottom to top, as the sticky display order is still to move the new sticky to the top of the sticky list. This is a royal pain, especially given that you have to sort each one out of the chaos that is a YouTube channel with more than 200 videos in it. The detail shows this problem. I am going to have to delete each of those sticky threads in the detail, saving the code to a .txt file to recreate it, and then create the threads in the proper reverse order to get the sticky posts in the order desired. Then the few that don't require ordering will just shift around as people post into the thread with comments, after it becomes public.

For the outer, general layout, those fora can be ordered and reordered as desired from the admin section and added to as needed. They stay where they are put and can be put where you want them. The Top one is likely to be deleted or the title changed and its purpose. I had set up a spreadsheet of multiple pages to allow ordering and saving links to each Youtube link in a stalled project to create an archive on my computer of Tom's actual videos in case anything ever happens to YouTube and we have to stream them ourselves. Stalled for the installation of my 3TB drives and setting up my system again and cleaning everything up. There are 2 other archives for safety and there are miscellaneous copies all around on computers and DVDs but recreating the process from those sources would be a massive and difficult undertaking and require a lot of cooperation to do. There are also multiple archives of Board and Wiki backups that I do nightly. I need more outer categories as needed to accommodate Tom's interviews with some others and some additional ways of ordering miscellaneous videos. All of these tasks are made more difficult by constant interruptions from walking the dog, answering posts when needed, fixing and eating food and interspersed sleeping. I have a problem all of my life where I only sleep a few cycles at a time, not through the night. Works good for dealing with a BB with people posting from most of the world

Here is an idea of how I am starting each thread and what information I am putting into them, which has to be gathered and pasted into the post from multiple sources.
NewVideoForumPost.JPG
NewVideoForumPost.JPG (164.82 KiB) Viewed 4050 times
This is just what I have so far. If you have suggestions, I am open to them.

Ted
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Re: MBT Question and Answer website

Post by William12 »

@Ted. That is down right fantastic Ted! Nice job.
My only comment would be too many forums as first impression. I don't see the need to partition to that degree. Maybe if he had like 5000 videos or something. Even then, not sure. Keep it simple, the simple method is best. 2-3 forums. If you end up with only a few videos in a forum, it is probably a sign your separating too much and makes it feel complicated and hard to navigate. 200 videos is a lot to do starting from ground zero, but not a lot in terms of a single forum. People can browse the titles and find what looks interesting without having to drill in and out of a large directory structure. Just my thought at the moment. In any case, looks like your off to a great path.
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Re: MBT Question and Answer website

Post by Ted Vollers »

William,

Some of Tom's events and videos are an hour or more in length while some are broken up into 10 minute segments. The things that you mention are the kinds of things I am trying to balance out. I feel that we do need to provide more order than just scanning through 200+ titles, even if they don't move around. And putting multiple titles in one forum without stickies would be impossible as they jump around with each new post changing the order. I prefer structure or why not just live with the (deliberate?) chaos of Youtube.

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Re: MBT Question and Answer website

Post by daveh »

Ted Vollers wrote:I did not lose interest in what you were suggesting.
Oh heck, apologies if I gave that impression, completely not intended. We are going through a process of discovery here so everything is useful.
Ted Vollers wrote: It's rather that what William suggested turned out to be in line with what Tom wanted and was easy to implement since William did all the work of figuring it out and I only had to follow directions.
Completely agree with implementing this BB code, it allows you to add structure to the videos without dealing with youTube's layout. This is one reason I asked if it would be worthwhile having a demo phpBB installation to 'play' with. It allows things to be tested by various people, ending up with things that should be as easy and cut and paste for you to move over to this live forum.
Ted Vollers wrote: I don't understand exactly what would be involved nor what the results would be in terms of your suggestions while it was clear with William's suggestion.
No worries, I'll post a clear example next of what I want to implement (as best as I can within the confines of this forum structure).
Ted Vollers wrote: Do I (since I am the only person authorized and able to do so) have to go through all of Tom's posts and add in some kind of keyword linking?
If you are the only person able to do so, then yes it would have to be you that does all the work. (Do I need to highlight the fact that this is not really a sustainable approach to running the forum? That's a rhetorical question - you've already mentioned how much time and effort it already takes you.) I realise the need for a certain level of protection for your data, but there needs to be some openings for you to grant select individuals additional access - even if it is only in very restricted areas of the board.
Ted Vollers wrote: In addition, I am somewhat confused now between this and your last e-mail. Are we talking Q/A from the board or from the videos?
Initially I was only discussing doing the Q/A from the videos, but this discussion here has introduced the work you and others have done to try and extract Q/A stuff from the board too, and other web locations. So, I'm adapting my view as we go, thinking of what can accomplish both. In my mind they can both be achieved by 'markup' tags (which I'll try to evince in my example) if we're focussing on using this forum as our tool.
Ted Vollers wrote: The videos will now have links on threads from here, without the confusion/chaos of Youtube.
That's great for organising the videos, but different to what I want to do. An issue I see with the screenshots you have posted are their arrangement - having a 'Tom Campell Events 2009' forum is meaningless to me as a learner (other than showing it's timestamp); similarly a topic like 'Thomas Campbell in discussion with Bernard Haish, Ph. D' means nothing unless I actually know (of) Mr Haish, which I don't. This is not yours, or anyones, fault, it's just that a forum is not the best format for enunciating video content. For me as a learner, a better order is one that follows topics in the order they are discussed in the books. The problem with a forum is that it forces an order where in this case an order actually muddles things instead of clarifies, IMO.
Ted Vollers wrote: There are text files extracted from these videos which will gradually become available and I intend to insert after the post with the video in it. I will probably insert a dummy post after each video post to eventually house that text information ...
Great idea, it will ensure some level of consistency.
Ted Vollers wrote: In this planning and discussion, we need to think in terms of this also and plan accordingly.
Is anyone up to using some visual planning (collaboration) tools such as http://conceptboard.com? It's more visual than what we can achieve here, very easy to use and free. You can see one page I've created here: https://conceptboard.com/board/b4xn-ynsa-t1zs-1p8k-617s
Ted Vollers wrote: This is not something that the moderators can do or help with either, besides the fact that they have much more time limitations than I do.
Hopefully our moderators have the capabilities to edit peoples posts in the forum? This would allow them to markup relevant pieces of text; eventually I would see users markup their own posts because it should help them in getting better responses.

To help moderators, I'd also like to discuss the feasibility of introducing a 'voting' option for user posts, to allow spam to be 'down-voted' by the community at large, leaving the moderators more time to focus on more relevant activities, like marking up text or deleting abusive posts, blocking trolls, etc. In order to delete spam, moderators would only need to look at posts with a low (negative) vote, rather than look at all posts.

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Re: MBT Question and Answer website

Post by daveh »

Okay, here's an attempt to show what I was thinking from this thread's title 'MBT Question and Answer website' but using this forum as the delivery method instead of some more dedicated software.

As an interested explorer, and having read the MBT books, my next stage is to watch the videos, so I'm thinking I may as well try and extract relevant data while I'm doing it; but I need somewhere to publish the extracted data. In regards to this thread's title, I'm only going to focus on Questions asked within the videos. My intention is not to worry about extracting data on the answers - other people interested in the particular question could do that later. This way I (we) 'quickly' build a list of all Questions asked in the videos.

So what meta data do we need?

Priority, #1: A transcription of the question asked in the video. (In this way the Question is the most important aspect, and many questions may link to the same video but at different places.)

#2: The URL including the specific timestamp to where the question is asked in the video. Using BB codes this can be turned into an embedded video.

#3: Question Tags representing alternative keywords to allow more ways of finding this question.

#4: A transcription of the answer. (Included here for structure completeness, but left blank initially for someone else to complete.)

#4: The URL including the specific timestamp to where the answer is given in the video. Doesn't necessarily need to be an embedded video unless the answer is quite some distance from the question (sometimes other discussions intercede).

#5: Answer Tags representing alternative keywords to allow more ways of finding this answer.

So what markup tags do we need to identify our meta data?

[question]...[/question] - indicates the text of the question
[question:sp]...[/question]
[question:de]...[/question] - with an optional 'colon' and a two-character ISO 639-2 'language code' it would allow for a translation of the original english question

[qURL]...[/qURL] - the url to where the question was asked. (Doesn't have to be a video, can just as easily be a forum post, website, twitter post, etc.). A question may have multiple [qURL]'s if the same question has been asked multiple times in different places.

[qTags]...[/qTags] - additional 'tag' or 'keyword(s)' that may relate to this question. Multiple [qTag]'s can be separated by commas.

[ANSWER]...[ANSWER] - a capitalised 'answer' tag indicates that this is an 'official' answer (either from Thom or someone identified by Thom to answer on his behalf). This tag contains the transcribed answer from any audio/video files.
[ANSWER:sp]...[/ANSWER]
[ANSWER:de]...[/ANSWER] - an 'official' answer that has been translated into the indicated language and has been 'signed off' by Thom (or Thom's representative). 'Signed off' indicates that the translation is accurate.
[answer]...[/answer] - when 'lowercase', indicates a non official answer. Maybe by someone knowledgeable, or just a community member.

[aURL]...[/aURL] - the url to where the question was answered, or a reference to material(s) used by community members in providing their own answer. A question may have multiple [aURL]'s if reference is made to multiple places.

[aTags]...[/aTags] - additional 'tag' or 'keyword(s)' that may relate to this answer. Multiple [aTag]'s can be separated by commas.

Time for an Example...
(the blue text below is what would be typed into a forum post or constructed using one of the 'form' plugins, spacing unimportant)

[question]Why a Big TOE?[/question]

[qTags][/qTags]

[qURL]http://youtu.be/fT8LaMrn_MM?t=18s[/qURL]

[ANSWER]The point of a Theory Of Everything is if you understand the game you're in, you can be a better player. If you understand, err, your purpose here, and, um, what the point of your existence is, then the 'whys' and 'hows' then you can interact more productively, so it...it, um, the point of writing a Big TOE, and I call it a BIG toe not just a TOE... starting with Einstein, um, he started err producing a TOE called Unified Field Theory, but that was an, a kind of objective TOE to unify all the objective science, which in that case meant relativity and quantum mechanics, under one over-arching understanding, but a BIG TOE has to do that, has to accomplish that, and on top of that it also has to include consciousness, and the subjective world as well as the objective world, so a BIG TOE has to explain everything... so, metaphysics, physics, um, you know, paranormal and normal, all of these become one... one thing under one overarching scientific theory. So the Big TOE is really... really science.[/ANSWER]

[aURL]http://youtu.be/fT8LaMrn_MM?t=25s[/aURL]

[aTags]metaphysics, physics, paranormal, normal, science[/aTags]


Which may be rendered by the forum (without the 'attachment' frames) as...

Q: Why a Big TOE?
mbt1.png
mbt1.png (83.22 KiB) Viewed 4036 times
(Question URL: http://youtu.be/fT8LaMrn_MM?t=18s)

A (official): The point of a Theory Of Everything is if you understand the game you're in, you can be a better player. If you understand, err, your purpose here, and, um, what the point of your existence is, then the 'whys' and 'hows' then you can interact more productively, so it...it, um, the point of writing a Big TOE, and I call it a BIG toe not just a TOE... starting with Einstein, um, he started err producing a TOE called Unified Field Theory, but that was an, a kind of objective TOE to unify all the objective science, which in that case meant relativity and quantum mechanics, under one over-arching understanding, but a BIG TOE has to do that, has to accomplish that, and on top of that it also has to include consciousness, and the subjective world as well as the objective world, so a BIG TOE has to explain everything... so, metaphysics, physics, um, you know, paranormal and normal, all of these become one... one thing under one overarching scientific theory. So the Big TOE is really... really science.
mbt2.png
mbt2.png (140.26 KiB) Viewed 4036 times
(Answer URL: http://youtu.be/fT8LaMrn_MM?t=25s)

metaphysics, physics, paranormal, science
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