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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:08 pm 
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Might sound a daft question but its just something that crossed my mind last night.

Last night I watched film called 12 years a slave, its a film based on the true story of a slave during the mid 1800s. Watching the film and how the slave owners treated the slaves was pure evil whipping, hanging, raping, humiliating etc...... I found myself feeling angry toward the slave owners and at one point I thought to myself " if i was stood there witnessing that i would pull my gun a shoot that b*****d "..

That got me thinking, if a high quality cosciousness IUOC was in a situation like that in the film and was witness to the slave owner whipping a young woman to within an inch of her life...., would the high quality consciousness IUOC feel love for the slave owner or anger, and if it felt anger would its quality of consciousness diminish ?

John


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:19 pm 
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This low entropy being could help the situation without feeling anger. You can realize something is wrong, and realize that you can do something to help or change it without being angry at the party doing the "evil". With a low entropy consciousness comes larger awareness and decision space, the big picture view on how to stop the problem.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:36 am 
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turbo,
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That got me thinking, if a high quality cosciousness IUOC was in a situation like that in the film and was witness to the slave owner whipping a young woman to within an inch of her life...., would the high quality consciousness IUOC feel love for the slave owner or anger, and if it felt anger would its quality of consciousness diminish ?
I think the high quality of consciousness IUOC would definitely feel love for the slave owner. However, love and like are two separate things and I would imagine the IUOC would also dislike the slave owner simultaneously. Since their entropy is low they would also be more effective and engaged in that situation so they would be able to make decisions which will minimize the net free will being controlled at that time.

I am also guessing that if they felt anger this would not diminish their quality of consciousness since that anger is a reflection of their already latent fear, if they make a choice based on this anger then I think their quality of consciousness would become slightly less.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:43 am 
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turbo,
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That got me thinking, if a high quality cosciousness IUOC was in a situation like that in the film and was witness to the slave owner whipping a young woman to within an inch of her life...., would the high quality consciousness IUOC feel love for the slave owner or anger, and if it felt anger would its quality of consciousness diminish ?
I think the high quality of consciousness IUOC would definitely feel love for the slave owner. However, love and like are two separate things and I would imagine the IUOC would also dislike the slave owner simultaneously. Since their entropy is low they would also be more effective and engaged in that situation so they would be able to make decisions which will minimize the net free will being controlled at that time.

I am also guessing that if they felt anger this would not diminish their quality of consciousness since that anger is a reflection of their already latent fear, if they make a choice based on this anger then I think their quality of consciousness would become slightly less.
I don't think there would be any negative thoughts, maybe feeling sadness is somehow negative, I don't know ?

I am starting to realise this, negativity is no use to us. I am trying to apply this but as a high entropy being, it is very difficult. I think meditation helps us towards that goal. It has definitely made me calmer and less judgemental in the two years I have been regularly practising it.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:51 am 
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SteveMac,
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I don't think there would be any negative thoughts, maybe feeling sadness is somehow negative, I don't know ?
Yes I think you are right. Maybe I was wrong to say dislike since I have heard Tom saying that to dislike yourself is not a constructive thing. So maybe it will be more of a strong disagreement than a disliking.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:49 am 
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turbo,
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I think the high quality of consciousness IUOC would definitely feel love for the slave owner. However, love and like are two separate things and I would imagine the IUOC would also dislike the slave owner simultaneously. Since their entropy is low they would also be more effective and engaged in that situation so they would be able to make decisions which will minimize the net free will being controlled at that time.
Isn't it so that love for all beings takes more of a background role? In a high tension situation like that I can't imagine the feeling of love for the slave owner taking any kind of priority to be expressed or mentioned. It is there still but priority, seems to me, would go to a feeling of injustice and sympathy for the slave. Then if specifically asked how the viewer feels about the slave owner I can again not imagine love taking a front seat, isn't it more likely to be sorrow for the state of him? Sorrow for the paths he took? Sorrow for the circumstances that shaped?

This reminds me of an episode I saw of Criminal Minds. I was still in a meditative state from meditating (I'm not that great at switching state back to normal), now the setting was that there was a deranged psychopath scientist who was dissolving women into solvents to capture their oils (an obvious painful process). The woman was still alive hovering over the tub and as he was about to lower her into it he suggested she go under and take a deep breath to make it quick. Watching these kind of shows in an altered suggestive state is probably not the best idea, I felt a great kind of wrongness and sympathy for the woman. The man I felt sadness for, a human being this messed up is not how it should be. Even though he was probably a victim of circumstance (psychopathy, delusional, distant) when he died I felt a sense of justice.

Is anger available as an emotion? Sure and I think it will always be but there is a choice to hang out with it, a choice low entropy consciousness doesn't tend to make. Of course the strength of the trigger is also a factor, even one with extremely low entropy would feel a sense of anger if his underage daughter was being raped by his brother who lives in his house. The sense of anger would be immense, but it would not control one with extremely low entropy. He would let it pass by him and act according to what is justice.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:58 pm 
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I think a highly evolved being would recognize the slave owner to be a low consciousness entity making poor choices. The low entropy being would help in anyway they could - and they did. There were many unsung heroes before, during, and after the Civil War. This is true in all wars. Many people tried to hide Jewish families in Nazi occupied territory during WWII.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:12 am 
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That got me thinking, if a high quality consciousness IUOC was in a situation like that in the film and was witness to the slave owner whipping a young woman to within an inch of her life...., would the high quality consciousness IUOC feel love for the slave owner or anger, and if it felt anger would its quality of consciousness diminish ?
Hi John,

so happy you decided to stay on the forum and engage.

The only low entropy consciousness I have spent any time around is Tom and just to clarify, I had an interesting experience whilst sitting next to him.

We were both sat at the front of a group of around 40 people. During the talk, my husband (who was stood at the back of the room) and I had a 'love' moment. We were looking at each other and I began to parallel process, all the auras of the attendees came into my field of vision...this is not unusual...and that experience brings in more information.

I ignored the other data as I was, enjoying a moment of intimacy with James, but something rather odd happened. I was sat slightly in front and to the side of Tom, so he was not in my peripheral vision, I could hear him, but not see him. However what was very odd indeed is that I could not 'feel' him.

Now, I could 'feel' everyone in the audience, with my eyes shut I could sense their presence, however I could not sense Tom at all.

I disengaged from my husband and concentrated on trying to find some sense of Tom and I couldn't. Nothing at all.

Later on I spent some time with him and asked him if I could not 'feel' him because his entropy is so low. He thought for a moment and said, 'well, that is how you are translating the data', then he thought again, and said yes, that is correct.

So...later on I was talking to Toms wife Pamela and asking her if Tom ever got mad at anything and she said no not ever...Tom did say that he can get frustrated, he used the example of a time when he thought he had lost his hard drive, that did not go down too well, but this was not anger.

Noticing the nuances between a low entropy being and the rest of us:-) sat in the room is difficult to put into words...it was as though Tom was 'empty' or silent as opposed to the rest of us who are all full of noise which has attitude/ego of all different levels attached to each stream of unruly thought.

We each exist in an intertwined spaghetti of disjointed self referential streams of thought all running at different speeds and noise level.

I mention this only to show that I experienced for myself an IUOC with a low entropy consciousness.

Some time ago I think it was Ramon who talked to Tom on the forum about this, and I do believe he asked Tom if he had the lowest entropy of any IUOC in this PMR and he replied that he did.

So, a low entropy consciousness when faced with the kind of cruelty and injustice portrayed in that particular section of the film you watched John, is able to respond without all that egoic noise getting in the way.

They have the ability to make the a better more productive choice in the moment because their intent is not corrupted by disorganized data.

"Motivation, intent, action, and feedback are all interconnected. Right motivation and right intent are the only sure path to right action, which produces the right feedback to encourage continued right growth and learning." MBT page 316 first edition hard back full trilogy.

Without the noise (the constant self referential chit chat) a low entropy consciousness is motivated by love, humility and compassion.

This does not mean that you cannot intervene and take the whip off someone who is attacking a defenseless person.

If you feel that you or someone who is unable to defend themselves is having their free will taken from them by another you can defend them.

As stated above Tom is a higher QOC low entropy IUOC and he has stated quite clearly that he is not a pacifist.

Daghda

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:40 am 
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Low entropy individuals would say there is nothing to be angered about.. it is all illusory.
This does not mean nor advocate indifference..
The way this trainer works out gives you plenty of choices to deviate from love or the "low entropy" states or vice versa.
For most of us, very little temptation is needed.


Last edited by insanecoder on Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:29 am 
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Very few low entropy beings incarnating now understand that we are living in a VR. And that is the way it is supposed to be. It feels real and that is the point. So it is not an illusion to any of us. We are experiencing the data stream.

A low entropy being understands that the true meaning of Love is thinking about "other." High entropy beings think about "self." It is hard to help someone else in dire straights when you can only think of the consequences to yourself and those close to you if you intervene. And behavior is not always steady. Almost all of us can be low entropy sometimes but high entropy most of the time. It is the rare few that make most of their decisions from a place of "other."


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:17 am 
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Thanks for all the replies, interesting indeed.

John


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:22 am 
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Some time ago I think it was Ramon who talked to Tom on the forum about this, and I do believe he asked Tom if he had the lowest entropy of any IUOC in this PMR and he replied that he did.
Hi, I'm new to forum but have read Tom's books and watched many of the videos. I'd like to know if the quote above is true or not, since it seems unlikely to me. I've tried searching the forum for a bit but did not find such a comment.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:03 am 
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rsi,

I have not had the opportunity to ask Daghda about the source for this, having been very busy, as it does seem uncharacteristic of Tom to say this.

Ted


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:18 am 
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Quote:
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Some time ago I think it was Ramon who talked to Tom on the forum about this, and I do believe he asked Tom if he had the lowest entropy of any IUOC in this PMR and he replied that he did.
Hi, I'm new to forum but have read Tom's books and watched many of the videos. I'd like to know if the quote above is true or not, since it seems unlikely to me. I've tried searching the forum for a bit but did not find such a comment.
It doesn't sound like Tom.
I remember Eckhart Tolle saying if a waiter comes and brings cold soup you tell them the soup is cold no ego attached just stating the fact. You don't need to keep quiet to be nice and think it is ego if you speak the truth.
Something like what Tom was supposed to have said may have been him just stating what he actually knows. Not being superior in any sense just a knowing and stating what he knows. So then I can understand if he did say that.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:43 pm 
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I struggle a lot when faced with deliberate neglect or cruelty such as described in a couple of scenarios above. On the internet we see images and read descriptions of humans being cruel to each other and other hapless animals in their power. My own fear and ego arises and it sickens me. However in line with my own purpose on this planet it the opportunity to practise keeping a neutral emotional base. This is in my work with animals.
I have three dogs at the moment. One , Ralph, is well balanced with great even energy. One is deaf, shows obsessive, neurotic behaviour about food and always will try and steal it despite having experienced some occasional devastating come back from the third dog, a pit bull, who is physically powerful, mentally dominant and genetically bred from dog aggressive bloodlines.
When my balanced dog was young and strong he kept a good house- the junior dogs respected him and his pack leadership, after my own, meant that the pit bull disregarded the 'rude' energy if the scatty deaf Dalmatian. I could leave the three dogs in the yard together and no one got hurt. Everyone had their place. It was like they understood that the deaf Dalmatian was 'special needs' and therefore limited in her understanding of common dog signals ( eg a warning growl goes unheard when she wants to steal a dog biscuit) and they tolerated her bad manners. Now Ralph is older the Pit Bull is jockeying for next in line. I do not trust to leave her alone with either of the weaker dogs, because I know what she is capable of and although she is strong she is not a well balanced dog like Ralph. Ralph would warn and snap at the deaf dog to keep her in line. The pit bull will bite and damage the Dalmatian given the right provocation.
I know what a pit bull is, what her capabilities are, and her tendencies. I also know she is a great joker, has a lot of love and affection for me, and is a loyal friend. When she goes to hurt another dog I feel fear for both dogs. However I can prevent the attack without hating her. She just is what she is. It's my responsibility to keep all my dogs safe so I work on my leadership, on training The dogs to listen to me before anything else, and on providing a safe environment when I'm not around to supervise so no one gets hurt. If Jaz the pit bull ever hurt or killed another dog I would hold myself responsible. Therefore I maintain a lot of discipline in my pack, to keep them safe from each other. This includes being thoughtful and conscious when I feed the dogs, when visitors come, when we are about to go for a walk, any time the dogs get excited and there is a danger of a flashpoint situation. It's like having a pet scorpion- they are what they are. My role is to keep calm, provide the most freedom I can for my pack without allowing anyone to get hurt. At no point do I hate the pit bull, fear her, or use pointless punishment that she wouldn't understand. I feel emotionally stable around her and because of that she listens to me and she can be a 'good dog'.
To me this is a playground to practice my emotional fitness. I'm not good enough at the game yet to look at human cruelty without getting emotional, but I'm working on it. All I know for sure is that if I fly off the handle I'm no better than they. So I sign petitions and donate money to people who can work at change and try not to expose myself to images that send me into a self destructive spin of righteous anger and the corresponding desire to 'make the bastards pay' for what they do.
Same with my horses. They are large animals and being around them can be risky. But if I get hurt then shame on me, because a horse is a horse, not another person, and I can't expect them to be anything but. If I get kicked or bitten or thrown, I literally feel no anger towards the horse. I feel annoyed at myself for not seeing it coming. I am working on feeling the same way about myself when I make mistakes, and other humans when they are thoughtlessly unkind or deliberately cruel to others.

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