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Translation - words and concepts
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Author:  Amar Uti [ Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:52 am ]
Post subject:  Translation - words and concepts

Dear All,

I would like to start a thread that covers particular words, phrases and concepts so that we use the same terminology.
The first ones for me are:

a) Awareness
b) Consciousness

How would you translate them into Polish. Although they mean sth completely different in English I am aware of one word in Polish, namely ŚWIADOMOŚĆ
Any ideas what to use to differentiate

Author:  Ted Vollers [ Sun Nov 06, 2016 10:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Translation - words and concepts

Let me refer you to some resources created in the past for persons who were creating translations previously and who either finished or abandoned their projects.

http://wiki.my-big-toe.com/Translations ... _Materials

http://wiki.my-big-toe.com/Acronyms_and ... My_Big_TOE

http://wiki.my-big-toe.com/Category:Home
You should definitely look at this Wiki page as it will link you to much information you might find of value. Like see the following page linked from this Wiki page.

http://wiki.my-big-toe.com/Consciousness
This might give you what you are looking for here.

https://books.google.com/books?id=RYHtB ... ss&f=false
This link will give you 56 links to 'awareness' in Tom Campbell's books on Google Books which is searchable.

And if you search for 'awareness' here on the BB with 'twcjr' as the author (minus the quote marks), you get 224 links to posts by Tom in which he used the term.

I can't take these things further for you myself until you check and see if the above covers your needs. If you are unable to find what you want with this, I can try again myself to narrow this down if necessary. I do remember that there has been much discussion of awareness on the board, particularly with some who insist that plants and trees are aware and/or conscious. I think however that you will fairly quickly find what you want in what Tom has to say in these links.

Ted

Author:  HJK_V01 [ Sun Nov 06, 2016 10:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Translation - words and concepts

Hi,

Świadomość is indeed the best word to use, the difference between awareness and consciousness is that MBT uses consciousness as a small c consciousness to indicate awareness/ "having a pulse" and a big C Consciousness which can take form of the System, LCS, AUM, IUOC or FWAU as far as I know. Big C Consciousness is the one that makes choices, in any other context it is pretty much just awareness and a state of receiving sensory data/datastream

So, we can do a brief explanation of that and use both świadomość and Świadomość. Awareness can also be translated as "przytomność" or "świadomość bodźców".

Other possible words/synonyms to use for awareness:

Przytomność
Rozpoznawanie
Jestestwo
Jaźń
Poczucie
Trzeźwość
Jawa/Jaw
Samo-wiedza


You can also use varying words for Consciousness:

Jedność
Dusza
Ja
Źródło
Duch
Jestestwo

What I do to get those is to do a google query: translate <insert word here> and play with the translator, and then do another query: "synonimy <insert word>"

Also, I highly recommend this english-polish-english dictionary: The New Kosciuszko Foundation Dictionary. I have an old copy that has proven invaluable, it is very exhaustive and has served me for many, many years.

I also came accross the wiki-dictionary, that looks promising: https://pl.wiktionary.org/wiki/awareness

We can also work on translating the specialized terms such as IUOC, FWAU, LCS etc. and use them where applicable.


I think that this tool that Ted linked to is going to be very useful to clear up some of the terms:
https://books.google.com/books?id=RYHtB ... ss&f=false

Author:  Ted Vollers [ Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Translation - words and concepts

In translating the acronyms, you should expand them into their full text and translate that and then create new Polish origin acronyms based on the Polish translations. Or at least so it seems most appropriate to me. Don't they use acronyms in Poland?

If that doesn't work in Polish, then keep Tom's acronyms and include an explanation in Polish of what the acronym means as an 'aside'.

Ted

Author:  HJK_V01 [ Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Translation - words and concepts

We do have acronyms, but they are actually coming out longer than the normal version. Just kidding ;)

I think either way works, but I prefer to stick with English acronyms. That fosters continuity and points back to the source. We're not looking to add anything to MBT, just translate and point towards the origin, so having two sets of acronyms could prove confusing.

I dont know how extensive our translating efforts will get and if someone checks out a few videos and starts out with acronyms like ICŚ and WSŚ and then goes to English and gets IUOC and LCS it will be like juggling way too many concepts at once. People have hard time enough to get the original acronyms right. I personally like to translate what the English acronym stands for and then stick with it - it makes it easier for me to work on translating also as I'm already familiar with those terms and don't have to make up new ones.

Ultimately it will be up to personal preferences of each individual translator, but if we were to vote on it, I'd go with Tom's shorthands.

Having polish acronyms works on another level too though - that way you don't have to have an aside with each distributed material - but then again, existing ones are esoteric enough that they prompt the same issue.

Author:  Amar Uti [ Sat Nov 12, 2016 8:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Translation - words and concepts

Well, let's get started:

My suggestions:

AUO (Absolute Unbounded Oneness) = Absolutna Nieograniczona Jedność
AUM (Absolute Unbounded Manifold) = Absolutna Nieograniczona Różnorodność - I have a problem with translating "manifold" or should I just go for LCS
LCS (Larger Consciousness System) = Większy System Świadomości
IUOC (Individuated Unit of Consciousness) = Wyodrębniona Jednostka Świadomości
PMR (Physical Matter Reality) = Rzeczywistość Materii Fizycznej)
NPMR (Nonphysical-Matter Reality) = Rzeczywistość Materii Niefizycznej
TBC (The Big Computer) = Wielki Komputer

Have I missed any key concepts that should be used?

Author:  Ted Vollers [ Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Translation - words and concepts

Don't forget OS for Our System as this particular collection of PMR and NPMR VRs. Also TBC as The Big Cheese as the CEO of OS. Here is a page of acronyms on Tom Campbell's Wiki: http://wiki.my-big-toe.com/Acronyms_and ... My_Big_TOE And do not forget that there is a whole section of aids for translation in that Wiki from previous translation efforts into other languages: http://wiki.my-big-toe.com/Translations ... _Materials And still more: http://wiki.my-big-toe.com/Notes_and_Re ... ranslators

Ted

Author:  HJK_V01 [ Sun Nov 13, 2016 11:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Translation - words and concepts

I'll get on working on those as soon as I can - I'll definitely need to dust off all the aids and definitions Ted provided to keep true to the context. I never got in to deep into those acronyms aside from the basic ones like IUOC and LCS because I see them as rather arcane and the part of "the model" that is the most open for skepticism and leasthe pertinent to the message. But we definitely need to start here as we will encounter those terms in a regular basis, it will also help us get a better understanding of the model in and of itself.

To start off, in IUOC the "individuated" is meant to be closer in meaning to "individual/personal" or "split off/separated" ?

Also, what significance is beind the word "unbounded" in AUM and AUO?

Author:  Ted Vollers [ Sun Nov 13, 2016 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Translation - words and concepts

Quote:
To start off, in IUOC the "individuated" is meant to be closer in meaning to "individual/personal" or "split off/separated" ?
The latter: split off/separated. This happens inherently in the nature of large complex information systems like the LCS as they develop. There are two properties of such systems which result in the splitting off and separation of the IUOCs known as Self Organization and Emergence. That is how the LCS as a Cellular Automaton changes from simply local interaction of data in reality cells by becoming completely interactive in totality as IUOCs are separated out and the Reality Wide Web forms to allow intercommunication and interaction between these now separated parts. This is where there is a link between what is known as Indra's Net and the LCS. Tom Campbell takes this further by adding in the concepts of Virtual Realities and Systems. Systems permit communication over the RWW to not become uncoordinated because of communication lag of messages over the RWW by keeping communication distances limited for VRs. None of these aspects can be observed when you are just talking the Indra's Net point of view as the System and VR boundaries do not show.
Quote:
Also, what significance is beind the word "unbounded" in AUM and AUO?
Tom makes the distinction that the LCS, AUO and AUM are real so that they have to be not infinite as a term often used in metaphysics, especially New Age concepts. Scientifically, infinity does not exist and is just a fantasy. He further makes the distinction that these things that he describes are unbounded as there is no limit known to their ability to expand by creating more reality cells and filling them with data in order to create new IUOCs and connect them to the rest by the RWW. But note that this does not mean that they are infinite but just not bound. There is a difference.

This is all explained as part of the model on Tom Campbell's Wiki in the Model pages. It is also there in his books but the more complete aspects of correlating Reality Cells and data to Cellular Automata are only referenced and not fully explained. And the mathematical aspects are referenced there but not expanded upon either. This keeps the books at a more elementary level by not going fully into advanced mathematics.

Tom and I spent a lot of back and forth discussion on making sure that I fully understood this as I was starting to create Tom's Wiki write up of the model. A lot of detailed descriptions I created and Tom reviewed and corrected as needed which I then put into a format suitable for a Wiki write up broken down into multiple linked pages rather than like a write up in a book chapter or chapters.

Ted

Author:  HJK_V01 [ Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Translation - words and concepts

Thank you Ted,

With those explanations I concur on Amar Uti's translations with only one exception . Thank you so much Amar Uti!

AUM: The word Manifold creates an uncertainty for both of us: There's three ways to understand and translate the word manifold:

1) Variety
2) Multiplier
3) Gatherer (as in gathering multiple inputs into one place)

The ones to be done:

VR (Virtual Reality) - Wirtualna Rzeczywistość
OS (our System) - Nasz System

TBC - Ted, what is the difference between The Big Computer and The Big Cheese? I do not recall Big Cheese being acronymized, so I realize that this may be a very stupid question, which is the context for asking it ; ) How ignorant or uninformed I am, you already know for yourself, I'm just trying to talk like a lawyer here.

Also, let's take a look at:

RWW (Reality Wide Web) - Sieć Rzeczywistości [Ogólnej?]

Ted, in RWW, what is the significance of Reality-Wide interplay? Shouldn't "Reality" be ubiquitous? This is similar to asking about "nothingness" nothingness is all encompassing with no exceptions - in fact there is no way to define it that makes any sense. So is reality. The only semi-exception is taking chaos into consideration, which may be an insulation for transfer of useful information, but it is a very real concept. Does word "wide" imply this conductivity intrinsically, or can it be dropped?

Author:  Ted Vollers [ Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Translation - words and concepts

The Manifold reference in AUM refers to AUM as the stage in development as AUO has now created the Manifold of VRs for the IUOCs to experience themselves as avatars, first in the NPMRs and then in the PMRs at a later time and its latest stage of development. This is where Tom Campbell refers to its fractal nature as all of these Systems of NPMRs and PMRs of which we exist within OS for Our System.

You see, you start with the LCS which is always there as the term for all of the reality cells containing data and all of its developments which Tom applies these other names to. First you get AUO as the IUOCs and the RWW come into existence by Emergence and Self Organization. AUO as the Absolute Unbounded Oneness describes the properties of this new stage as Absolute, and the LCS is also Absolute, Unbounded (as I already described) Oneness as the IUOCs communicating over the RWW have turned what was strictly local communication as messages traveling in the Cellular Automaton of the LCS with its reality cells and data always runs into other data in the local area. The IUOCs created areas of local data interaction while the RWW provides a universal communication buss to connect all of the IUOCs together as the Oneness aspect of AUO. Think of this as somewhat like the brain of God, if you are willing to apply a theistic term. Compared to the human brain as a model, the IUOCs are the Neurons while the RWW is the interconnecting buss between the IUOCs sort of like how axons and dendrites of nerves in the human brain interconnect the neurons.

So I think you might rethink how you translate Manifold as what Tom is referring to here is the nature of the AUM stage of development of the LCS where there are all of these IUOCs formed into local areas where their communication path amongst themselves as a System is short enough that the transit time of data over the RWW is short enough that communication is not so 'slow' as to create time discrepancies within the/a VR so as to make communication of messages between IUOCs in the same VR getting mixed up as to the time segment that they belong in. Time is not controlled by a big clock in a VR that everyone reads time from. Rather time represents a period within a VR during which all of the IUOCs receive a message which tells them what happened in the last/current time increment of the VR.

The Big Computer or TBC is the collection of all of the IUOCs which function within a VRs as the avatars within that VR. They are each and individually very computer like and together they unite into one networked computer over the RWW. They pass messages back and forth that first make a probabilistic calculation in Probability Mode amongst themselves to determine what happens in the next time increment for the VR. As networked computers, they share this task between them. Then they go into the Virtual Reality Rendering Engine mode in which they create together the 'picture' that each IUOC will eventually receive that Renders that VR delta t increment as what all of your senses provide within that short increment of 'time'. Think of creating the next frame of a film that you are watching but instead of just a picture on a screen, this is every aspect of your experience. The final stage of a delta t for a VR is for TBC to transmit each new set of data to each individual IUOC which just created it amongst themselves. All of these changing functions is controlled by the messages being sent around amongst the IUOCs over the RWW.

Now I don't know how to tell you how to convert this all from just a mass of confusing words into an understanding other than to offer to explain what is not clear if you ask. You will just have to cogitate and ask questions until this comes together into a gestalt rather than a mass of words.

Tom has referred to The Big Cheese as TBC and you have to decide by context which is meant and I am not aware of any problems in doing so from the context. And I am old enough that I might be mistaken in my memory. You could search in the on line version of the trilogy on Google Books to see what show up for TBC. There are 59 references and frankly I am not up to scanning all of them for you right now. An assignment for the student if you wish to take it on. But then perhaps it could be on the Board and not in the books. Or perhaps he never has done so and my memory is wrong. I've just explained The Big Computer while The Big Cheese is Tom's joking reference to the Chief Executive Officer of OS who Tom knew personally from before he took office on a relatively recent scale when the previous CEO stepped down and went on vacation. Tom apparently knew him well enough to give him a fun name. Tom has been doing special projects for system management ever since TBC was promoted and perhaps before for all I know.

The RWW refers to the communication buss that interconnects all of Reality as the LCS. The WW part is a 'pun' on WWW as the Internet's interconnecting buss. So the context to translate RWW is the Internet terminology. Does this clear this question up?

Ted

Author:  HJK_V01 [ Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Translation - words and concepts

Thanks again Ted, that clears some things up, as much as possible for a person that has nothing to do with computer engineering ; )

I am still not sure what is meant by AUM as the "stage of development" is it more like a part/structure that can be identified as existing even currently, or a transitional period that has evolved into something else by now?

When I google images for manifold, engine and exhaust parts come up - I think that was the implied meaning behind the word manifold here as well - a gathering point of inputs.
in that case I would change to following:

AUM (Absolute Unbounded Manifold) = Absolutna Nieograniczony Kolektor

I would also translate the following:

TBC/ The Big Cheese as: Wielka Szycha or Gruba Szycha for comedic effect.

Now, since RWW is a pun on WWW, which is existing solely in English internationally, I don't think we have to change it, but if we have to I'd use "Sieć Rzeczywistości Ogólnej"

Also Ted, is my understanding correct that The Big Computer is not a standalone structure, but rather a collective arrangement of "cores" between all IUOCs in OS?

If you had to simplify, is LCS nothing but a collection of IUOCs, or more of a standalone structure with IUOCs bubbling out of it?

Amar Uti,

I hope it all helped, since you led the effort in getting those translations sorted out, you call the shots. Please post the list of your selections once you feel that we got it right.

Author:  Amar Uti [ Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Translation - words and concepts

Back after a long pause...

AUO (Absolute Unbounded Oneness) = Absolutna Nieograniczona Jedność
AUM (Absolute Unbounded Manifold) = Absolutna Nieograniczona Różnorodność or
Absolutny Nieograniczony Kolektor
LCS (Larger Consciousness System) = Większy System Świadomości
IUOC (Individuated Unit of Consciousness) = Wyodrębniona Jednostka Świadomości
PMR (Physical Matter Reality) = Rzeczywistość Materii Fizycznej
NPMR (Nonphysical-Matter Reality) = Rzeczywistość Materii Niefizycznej
TBC (The Big Computer) = Wielki Komputer
VR (Virtual Reality) - Wirtualna Rzeczywistość
OS (our System) - Nasz System
RWW (Reality Wide Web) - Sieć Rzeczywistości or Sieć Łącząca Rzeczywistości

TBC/ The Big Cheese as: Wielka Szycha for comedic effect ☺.


And back to
Awareness – I think a word needs to be coined.... to work in Polish. To me language wise „awareness“ is junior stage of „consciousness“

Author:  Ted Vollers [ Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Translation - words and concepts

My apologies as I apparently failed to respond to an earlier post in a timely manner.
Quote:
I am still not sure what is meant by AUM as the "stage of development" is it more like a part/structure that can be identified as existing even currently, or a transitional period that has evolved into something else by now?
A Google search brings up this as a definition for manifold as a noun:
noun
noun: manifold; plural noun: manifolds
1. a pipe or chamber branching into several openings.
"the pipeline manifold"
(in an internal combustion engine) the part conveying air and fuel from the carburetor to the cylinders or that leading from the cylinders to the exhaust pipe.
"the exhaust manifold"
2. technical
something with many different parts or forms, in particular.

What we want here is the second, technical, definition.

Now to clarify the reference to 'stage of development'. The LCS creates a general structure of the IUOCs interconnected by the RWW, which you seem to follow, based on mathematical processes of large systems known as emergence and self organization.

So now we have the LCS as a vast number of IUOCs interconnected and United by the RWW. This gives us the first term of AUO that Tom uses as an Absolute Unbounded Oneness as a term embodying these properties. Again if we look at the definition from Google, we get:
adjective
adjective: absolute
1. not qualified or diminished in any way; total.
"absolute secrecy"
2. viewed or existing independently and not in relation to other things; not relative or comparative.
"absolute moral standards"

Both definitions 1 and 2 can apply in my thinking.

Unbounded is used by Tom as he rejects infinite as being not real while unbounded just means that there is no bound to the possible growth of AUO.

Oneness means that it is interconnected and thus United into One thing.

AUO develops into The One Consciousness which Tom does not abbreviate into an acronym. This takes much time as the IUOCs develop from their initial state where they have a lot of entropy as bad code which must be replaced with functional code. All of the functions of logic and mathematics must be invented and developed over time. Communication protocols between IUOCs must be developed over time so that the are communicating in what must essentially be a single universal language. Eventually AUO develops Consciousness and becomes The One Consciousness.

So what we are doing is delineating the stages by which the LCS develops over much time. First it is just a vast field of data in reality cells. Then it develops into One thing which is United as IUOCs interconnected by the RWW. This is a matter of development and creation of new properties over time. And all of this is happening as the data in the reality cells is perking away and going through these developments being described. It is always just data in reality cells but new properties come about with the developments being described.

Now we don't have a totally definitive and detailed description of every tiny aspect and change of this very long development. After much time, AUO develops into The One Consciousness as all of the IUOCs communicating over the RWW start to function as and become Conscious: The One Consciousness. The One Consciousness perhaps becomes lonely or perhaps it just has a bright idea based upon self conscious introspection. That is it figures out that it is composed of all of these interconnected and interacting IUOCs. So its bright idea is to create a basis for the IUOCs to each have their own consciousness and to be able to communicate with each other. This took a lot of further development as each IUOC cannot actually be conscious on its own. It can process data, but it is not conscious of what that data is that it is processing. It has no inherent consciousness of its own.

So the next stage was for AUO to do some special processing within its own neurons/IUOCs in that it sets up what Tom comes to call The Big Computer, within which AUO creates the input to each IUOC for it to be aware of/conscious of. Now it's pretty clear that this did not likely happen as 'one feel swoop' and 'right off the bat' in English slang. There was a lot of experimenting, trial and error, and figurative 'head scratching' to figure all this out. This is where AUO developed itself into the 'chief scientist' that Tom has joked about or perhaps I should not say joked as it was a very real and significant development.

The Big Computer was probably originally all IUOCs or it could have been just some of them. This is lost back in the process of original development. Once we get into the Manifold aspect of having many Systems with ours being OS, then we have all the IUOCs within OS as being those who can communicate unequivocally as in no time problems as communication distances do not create confusions of sequencing in calculations. They then make up TBC for OS.

Nothing in the LCS or within a System as a subset is a 'structure'. It is all an ad hoc arrangement of IUOCs connected and organized by transient messaging over the RWW. This is what creates 'structure' as actually function within the LCS. Remember Tom talking about 'bubbling up' things as needed. This is how that it is done. AUM just sends out a block of messages that tell off a group of IUOCs to stop processing its own thoughts for a period and start processing some particular assignment instead.

But also keep in mind that all of this is 'ad hoc' and makes use of time sharing as in computer usage. A modern computer, even the one on your desk, has multiple processors (think IUOCs) and they time share a process as the computer's Operating System controls them to accomplish different parts of the work load in a shared and coordinated manner. AUM might be thought of as the computer when it is running the Operating System as the executive function that runs and coordinates everything else.

Has this clarified anything or just muddied the waters worse?

Ted

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