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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:01 am 
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Just a couple of notes. If you want to anthropomorphize the system because it makes you feel better, so be it. But it is a system not an old man sitting on a cloud subjectively deciding things. It is your fear that wants to put extra bells and whistles on it. It is like people who name their cars and give them personalities. It may be fun but it doesn't make the car sentient.

Time doesn't come from outside of consciousness. It is an integral part of consciousness. If the LCS stopped then it would have broken apart somehow back into bits like at its beginning. It could not stay in some state of stasis.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:52 pm 
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Hello Sainbury,
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It is like people who name their cars and give them personalities.
Just like Tom giving the one who watches over this reality the name 'Big Cheese' and says it has primarily masculine attributes?

Nathan.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:39 pm 
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Just a couple of notes. If you want to anthropomorphize the system because it makes you feel better, so be it. But it is a system not an old man sitting on a cloud subjectively deciding things. It is your fear that wants to put extra bells and whistles on it. It is like people who name their cars and give them personalities. It may be fun but it doesn't make the car sentient.
I don’t think it’s fear as much as being impossible to convey an orgasmic experience through the left brain logic of language and mathematics. You can try to describe it all you want but to someone who has never anthropmorphized themselves by incarnating in PMR they would likely never be able to truly understand the experience and everything connected to it. They’ve never “tasted the pudding”. They would be missing something. Actually, they’d be missing quite a lot.
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Time doesn't come from outside of consciousness. It is an integral part of consciousness.
That’s what I’m saying.
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Yea, What I mean is, it seems to me that time is a byproduct of the activity of consciousness. If the LCS stopped all activity it would essentially exist in a timeless state. But it would still exist. If you take the LCS to be everything then there would be no time, no clock ticking away, no time comming from “outside”. Of course, it would be hard to know if such a thing happened since there wouldn’t be any experience of it.
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If the LCS stopped then it would have broken apart somehow back into bits like at its beginning. It could not stay in some state of stasis.
I’m not trying to say such a thing is possible. I have no idea if it is or not. It’s a thought experiment. It’s a “what if”. And it seems to me that if the LCS stopped all activity, time would also stop because indeed time is a byproduct of the activity of consciousness. Maybe it would break apart, I don’t know, but I don’t see that as self evident. Why do you think it would break apart?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:48 am 
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Hello VirtualBrain,
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I just think a mechanical rule set based description lacks a little something.
I agree. That would be the major downfall of MBT theory. It lacks the expression of compassion. Like all science, it hides behind E-prime language and ambiguity for fear of rejection.

Nathan.
I think MBT is a good model. It has a lot of utility. But in the end it is a metaphor like every other model, it isn’t the thing itself.

As far as I can tell we can never really see the thing itself, like you can never see your head with your own eyes, you can only see it’s reflection(metaphor again). :)


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:26 am 
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And it seems to me that if the LCS stopped all activity, time would also stop because indeed time is a byproduct of the activity of consciousness. Maybe it would break apart, I don’t know, but I don’t see that as self evident. Why do you think it would break apart?
I am thinking of Tom's postulation on how consciousness came about. It starts out with unconnected bits. Then those bits start combining and breaking apart. And then some of the combinations are stable and stay together. That is the beginning of time because there is a before and after. So without time entropy would start breaking consciousness down until there would only be bits left again.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:28 am 
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And it seems to me that if the LCS stopped all activity, time would also stop because indeed time is a byproduct of the activity of consciousness. Maybe it would break apart, I don’t know, but I don’t see that as self evident. Why do you think it would break apart?
I am thinking of Tom's postulation on how consciousness came about. It starts out with unconnected bits. Then those bits start combining and breaking apart. And then some of the combinations are stable and stay together. That is the beginning of time because there is a before and after. So without time entropy would start breaking consciousness down until there would only be bits left again.
That might be a possibility. But I’m not sure the bits that are stable would break apart. Maybe the LCS, turns itself off and then back on again every once in a while like we do with computers, it gets rid of those unstable collections of bits. Gets things running better again.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:56 am 
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From Tom's description when consciousness became a cohesive thing, then entropy kicked in. It either grows or dies. You don't have to pause the whole system to rearrange parts. Although I think you are right that parts of the LCS get rebooted. A PMR that has lost the ability to be a good consciousness trainer may get re-set to an earlier time.


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