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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:52 pm 
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I’d like to thank all the plants, animals and fungi I’ve murdered over the years so that I may continue to maintain my physical existence. Their sacrifice is an act of unconditional love.

Especially the plants and fungi, since they don’t even have a decision space and thus no possibility of escape. However, I consider the poisonous ones to be very selfish, I’d really love to eat them as well.

While I’m at it I’d also like to thank the Earth for providing me a surface to trod upon as well as providing soil in which all those sweet and savory plants grow for my pleasure, the water for quenching my thirst and providing a home for all those delicious fish, and the sky for providing a medium in which all those scrumptious birds soar. Although those birds better stay the heck out of my way when I’m levitating. :D


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:05 pm 
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Here's a statistic for you, for what it's worth: 84% of vegetarians and vegans return to eating meat, most within1 year. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-ne ... 180953565/
Regarding India, it also has a big ticking time bomb of diabetes and related issues. Look, I never said we should all eat like Eskimos.
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You still do not address the morality of killing animals because you like the taste of meat.
I find this question asked in an aggressive manner. In a similar vein, have you asked Tom about the morality of killing animals because he likes to travel?
I eat meat because that's how I evolved as a human being to thrive. Consequently, the body knowing what's good for it, has developed the taste so that I like to eat meat. That's how the food chain in this PMR evolved - what's the morality got to do with it? Now, if you want to discuss how the animals are raised and all that, it's a different thing.
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It is only in recent history and factory farming that eating meat in such regularity has been a dietary norm.
You live in America, right? What were the Native Americans eating? Smoothies and almond 'milk'? Or were they living off bison meat?


Last edited by Pipeman84 on Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:19 pm 
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Well I'm now in my 6th year since writing that article and still not eating meat. I have no desire to. And I'm much healthier than I was 6 years ago. I still think that it is lower entropy to grow the plant and eat the plant, rather than grow the plant, feed the animal with the plant, then eat the animal. Much more efficient for the planet too. But each to their own.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:37 pm 
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My father got off his blood pressure and diabetes medication in weeks. The purpose of this forum and toms views haven't changed. If eating animals for health is not necessary what is the low entropy solution and best for everyone and the planet in the long term? Tom and MBT theory provide the answer. People who go to it in the short term just tried it because their friend was doing it and they where never commited in the first place. They where never ethical vegans but just tried a plant based diet.. avoid animal foods and heart attacks, stroke and impotence... I agree with tom. Once you understand you are losing points in the evolutionary game if you continue. I was sent somewhere to learn about this. It was made absolutely clear to me. I was once wrong about materialism and eating animals. I am willing to admit that. I was wrong.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:07 pm 
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@charmy have you given up just meat or have you been vegan for 6 years?

@THEONE I looked trough some of your posts on this forum to try and understand better where you're coming from...in October last year you posted in the Healing Swat Team section:
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Problem: alcohol and pot addiction, junk food addiction, depression, negative thoughts.
Depression, cravings for junk food - I've noticed these 2 issues several times in the Fireside Chats coming from people claiming to be vegan. It's clearly a diet related thing - the body is missing various micro-nutrients and it shows. I don't care how many blood tests one takes that 'proves' he's healthy. If one looks (meaning muscle/fat levels) like shit and feels like shit, then clearly the diet is shit.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:28 pm 
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google vegan body mass index on google images search and look at some of the graphs

the average vegan has a healthy body mass index, is more attractive and has less disease and illness. the average meat eater in north america is obese, on blood pressure medication, diabetes will statistically will likely die from heart disease as it is the number one killer.

i will openly admit not eating animals is IN NO WAY A GUARANTEE OF HEALTHY EATING. i am agreeing with that. i am in no way saying not eating animals is a automatic ticket to health.

no one is saying dont eat animal products and you will automatically be healthy or have a great diet. some days i go to dollarama and buy candy.

my aunt died of a stroke because of blockages in her brain arteries. her husband spent his remaining years alone because of that. my auncle had to have a quadruple bypass surgery because of blockages in his arteries. look at how many people are prescribed viagara these days. this is not normal or healthy.

if that is healthy to you the conversation is over. there is no point discussing the matter with you if you think that is healthy. i dont know what else to say to you.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:40 pm 
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Science and not just opinion:

According to the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics, an evidence-based review showed that a vegetarian diet is associated with a lower risk of death from ischemic heart disease. Vegetarians appear to have lower low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels, lower blood pressure and lower rates of hypertension and type 2 diabetes than meat eaters. Vegetarians also tend to have a lower body mass index, lower overall cancer rates and lower risk of chronic disease.
https://www.webmd.com/diet/features/is- ... getarian#1

New research suggests that if we all ate a vegetarian diet, one-third of early deaths could be avoided.

Experts say, in fact, we may be underestimating the benefits of eating plant-based foods.

“We have just been doing some calculations looking at the question of how much could we reduce mortality [by] shifting toward a healthy, more plant-based diet — not necessarily totally vegan — and our estimates are [that] about one-third of early deaths could be prevented,” Dr. Walter Willett, professor of epidemiology and nutrition at Harvard Medical School, said during a medical conference in Vatican City late last month.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/ ... -thought#1


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:18 pm 
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I just listen to my inner self. You can have an intent to eat only what is healthy for yourself and you will get a download . It is much better than using the intellect for this in my opinion. Try it and see what you go to the shop for next time.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:29 am 
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Dr. Walter Willett - you bold him as if he was the LCS representative on earth :)
How many doctors would call all of us on this forum deluded people? After all 'science' has determined this is a materialistic world.

Those 'experts' views are worse than worthless - ever since we've had 'experts' telling us what to eat, the population got sicker and fatter. That's because they've been advising a low fat, carbohydrate heavy diet and 3 meals + 2 snacks a day. Ideal diet to fatten up someone, because it never really fills one up, keeps one constantly hungry and all those processed carbs wreak havoc with the body's hormonal system. The food industry is happy with this - it's much more profitable to mix flours/oils/sugars and make products that last for years on a shelf than to bother with perishable animal foods.
Big Pharma is also happy (ever wondered why it got Big ?) - a lot of obese/physically sick/depressed people means repeat customers.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:52 am 
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Quote:

the average vegan has a healthy body mass index, is more attractive and has less disease and illness. the average meat eater in north america is obese, on blood pressure medication, diabetes will statistically will likely die from heart disease as it is the number one killer.

look at how many people are prescribed viagara these days. this is not normal or healthy.
1. I said before, stop misinterpreting epidemiology. The same studies you got your stats from also show that the average vegan is a big city dweller and earns more money than the average meat eater. Do you conclude that if you want a better income, turning vegan will do it? :) The average meat eater in these studies gets the meat from fast food joints together with loads of sugar, flours and oils. That's what makes him obese and diabetic, not the meat.

2.Regarding Viagra, you know the story behind breakfast cereals? https://metro.co.uk/2019/08/17/kelloggs ... -10587364/ Now picture a man who starts his day with cereals and almond 'milk' and continues with all sorts of smoothies and vegan foods that his ancestors would only eat in case of starvation and you have one of the big reasons why there's so much Viagra demand nowadays.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:14 am 
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Science is still part of the ruleset of this PMR. And I quoted a doctor and a study.

In the end you have to make up your mind what is best to eat from a health and moral position. But don't try and cram eating meat as the healthiest option here. It won't wash.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:45 am 
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@Sainbury
You want to start a contest, who posts more doctors/studies ? :) If you google Walter Willett, you'll find a 1.26 minutes video where he says that carbs (in grains) are the problem - that's how farmers fatten their animals. Exactly the point I made above...one starts with 'heart healthy' breakfast cereals, one's really hungry a few hours later. One starts with an omelette and bacon, one feels full and can go much longer without food. And when one eventually eats, it's not that bad sensation given by the blood sugar crash, as is the case with cereals, but a gentle 'maybe I should eat something, it's been some time since the last meal' kind of sensation.

I think I've said enough in this and other threads regarding the health and moral arguments of animal foods. Everyone is free to research and experiment on him/herself.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:59 pm 
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Choose your method of execution!

According to this study vegans/vegetarians will die of stroke and meat eaters are doomed to heart attack.

https://www.bmj.com/content/366/bmj.l4897

We’re all done for! :)


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:19 pm 
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According to this article and accompanying United Nations report, Veganisim is going to destroy the environment by depleting and eroding topsoil undoubtedly leading to mass extinction of many species including humans(unless we decide to eat each other of course. Soylent Green is PEEOPLE! ;) MMMUUUAAAHAHAHA!). Balancing crop rotation and grazing land for animals may provide the answer we’ve already had for thousands of years. Imagine that. :o

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... soya-maize

Maintaining a balanced diet may help save the planet! :)


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:47 am 
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What this opinion article fails to realize is that we would need 10 times more land mass for everyone to eat grass fed animals. Unfortunately there just isn't enough room on the planet for that. Additionally the point made about crops ; "A 2015 report from the UN Food and Agriculture Organization states that, globally, 25 to 40bn tonnes of topsoil are lost annually to erosion, thanks mainly to ploughing and intensive cropping. In the UK topsoil depletion is so severe that in 2014 the trade magazine Farmers Weekly announced we may have only 100 harvests left". This fails to realize most of the crop food we grow is fed to animals. Feeding crops to animals to eat them as it turns out is a very inefficient way to get energy and nutrition from the earth. So unfortunately the only way to reduce the amount of crops we grow it to stop eating animals and there just isn't enough room on earth for all of us to eat free range animals.


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