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 Post subject: Re: Decision Space
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:56 pm 
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I've come to associate decision space with how much harm we can do, the more harm that could come from our choices, the more decision space and therefore more responsibility for our actions we have. The less decision space, the less responsibility for the results of our choices.
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Bette
I am now associating this with Ted's post on Higher Self viewtopic.php?f=21&t=3566 and my growing conceptualizations on that. I would offer that I cannot have responsibility for the results of the choices made by other parts of my Higher Self getting all commingled with my current experience as Bette and choices here. This is because during "Bette" the choices I make are based on what bette has learned so far, the Higher Self me decisions are based entire organization of the processed experiential packets Higher Self has initiated. The probable different experiences going on that Bette is not aware of don't get their results processed into the Higher Self until they are done too. I would further inquire the accuracy of the concept that I think I know what I am talking about. Thanks in advance. :)
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 Post subject: Re: Decision Space
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:44 pm 
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Bette,

Bette has total and complete responsibility for every decision Bette makes (i.e., in PMR).

Your higher-self has total and complete responsibility for every decision your higher-self makes.

You and your higher self are two aspects of one being.

Tom C


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 Post subject: Re: Decision Space
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:27 pm 
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Got it Chief. ;)
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 Post subject: Re: Decision Space
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:51 pm 
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Is higher self just a term used to describe the NPMR recording/processing/actor (awareness that hopefully knows the "value/ethic/moral metaphysics" of the NPMR arena and how that "filters down" or functions in the PMR arena)?

It seems to me our PMR sentient relationships are massively based in NPMR "value/ethic/moral metaphysics."

I require so much punctuation in these forums!

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 Post subject: Re: Decision Space
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:48 am 
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edge,

No, edge, our higher self is not our NPMR self. Our NPMR self is another virtual being, like our PMR self, but with different perceptions and understandings based on the great difference between the NPMR and PMR type rule sets and resulting experiences naturally occurring because of these differences. Our higher self, as described, is the self which directly experiences the digital consciousness reality without the trappings of a VR experience buffering the experience. It is our 'raw digital code' based self as it ultimately exists. It also directly participates in the interaction of all other higher selves/individuated beings over the RWW that generates/becomes/is The One, The One Consciousness, AUM. Our VR selves have more of a perception of themselves as an I, a being, a person. Our PMR and NPMR selves have the problem of being trapped in these conceptions of a self, an ego in all the negative senses, which we strive to overcome by adding the perception and understanding of the 'bigger picture'. Our higher self is developing toward this possession of, being, a person, a self, also by virtue of its absorption of/integration with these concepts/experiences from it's VR sub sets. It does not have the limitations of either (or more) of it's VR sub selves by virtue of being directly connected into AUM without an intervening rule set and VR perception. I am working on a post to try to explain this in more depth as so many participating here seem hung up on the understanding of these concepts and feeling like the VRs are not effective or are badly designed because of, particularly for PMR type virtual realities, the pain that they put the participants through. This is a very limited and limiting view/understanding of Consciousness Reality, it's 'motivations' and 'goals'.

I am glad to see that, as indicated in the post above, some of you are becoming aware of the need to use a lot of punctuation in these postings. You are becoming aware of the difficulties that Tom, based on reading between the lines of his postings, and I have with conveying the subtleties that we perceive with the 'blunt instrument' of contemporary English and PMR concepts. This leads to a lot of commas, subordinate phrases, non conventional punctuation, words concatenated together with / between and etc. on both of our parts. I apologize for the convolutions and possible difficulty understanding the complex sentences I therefore generate, but I fail to see a better way to do it. It is a limitation as repeatedly stated in conveying bigger picture truth with PMR concepts/symbols as words. You would not believe the time that I sometimes spend on these posts trying to convey exactly the subtlety that I am striving for, going back to add a word or modify the punctuation to convey some detail I am trying to include.

Ted


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 Post subject: Re: Decision Space
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:52 am 
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Ted,

The pleasure derived from your signature communiques never stops on this end. Thanks for putting in the energy and effort to distill your meaning. You are plenty legible. Also thank you both (TC&TV) for exploring this higher self dimension in the forums. I'm starting to get a better feel for it, I think.

"No, edge, our higher self is not our NPMR self. Our NPMR self is another virtual being, like our PMR self, but with different perceptions and understandings based on the great difference between the NPMR and PMR type rule sets and resulting experiences naturally occurring because of these differences."

Check.

"Our higher self, as described, is the self which directly experiences the digital consciousness reality without the trappings of a VR experience buffering the experience. It is our 'raw digital code' based self as it ultimately exists. It also directly participates in the interaction of all other higher selves/individuated beings over the RWW that generates/becomes/is The One, The One Consciousness, AUM. Our VR selves have more of a perception of themselves as an I, a being, a person."

Sounds like the total hardlink, in a sense. I hate having to conceptualize it in this capacity but I'm still very babe-ish here. Higher self immediately brought to some wacky conditions. It also sounds like a raw relay station that acts over the RWW (growing as well via understanding/experience that which is available) and feeds into AUM.

"Our higher self is developing toward this possession of, being, a person, a self, also by virtue of its absorption of/integration with these concepts/experiences from it's VR sub sets."

Yikes! Shrinks it all down rather quickly doesn't it? So why is individuation human-emotion experience such a valuable lesson to outside of data allocation VR evolution potential. Does this higher self (HS) end up taking upon "characteristics" as the VR subsets do? I wonder if "characteristics" are even a necessity if the HS is not as constrained as similarly as PMR/NPMR situations. Or is this just allocation of data on the HS's part rather than "trait"? Is HS directly related to the single point consciousness experience? I am starting to feel the HS should not be anthropomorphized. Keep it at the vibe level. But wow, I am starting to wonder is this HS truly interested in the data it accumulates via NMPR PMR VR situations OR is it really just functional, "doing its job." (Maybe I am answering my own question; Is the kidney interested in your favorite Pink Floyd album?) WOW we must really be overplaying a lot here on the PMR scale. In fact when one REALLY considers the implication of the AUM, Ted and Tom, you guys really appear like the kids on the block, the dudes before the campfire, that are worth listening to. We're moving into some profoundly curious and wild stuff here. Well doesn't this whole human taste get a tad weaker.

I'll reserve further misconceptions for your next post.

You are so damagingly illuminative, I can't thank you enough, Ted. Cheers.


Da dee da. Da dee da. Break on through to the other side.

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 Post subject: Re: Decision Space
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:04 am 
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To All,

The following is my present insight and understanding, pushed to a new level by some of your comments and attitudes that I am trying to respond to. I am specifically answering your question, edge, of "So why is individuation human-emotion experience such a valuable lesson to outside of data allocation VR evolution potential." I believe that with patience for this long post you will see the answer.

I have already described this in general terms in the discussion "Why talk about our Higher Self and our Virtual Reality self?" located at this link: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2826, but did not include these aspects, ways of seeing things. Although I had not then expanded my understanding fully to this point, I feel that what follows is consistent with and implicit in the earlier description and with MBT in general.

Everything started from the Void state. This is not a state of perfection or uniformity, but something like the state after the Big Bang of modern science's conceptualization. The Big Bang state relative to the Void state is another example of the fractal nature of Consciousness Reality and the reiteration of processes at many levels and in different contexts. A primary characteristic of Consciousness Space as described by Tom. The Void state was superficially uniform, but at the smallest level of reality cells was rife with irregularities, imperfections, wrinkles, as 'perturbed' reality cells appearing as random non information in the ultimate fabric of Reality. These are the perturbed reality cells of Tom Campbell's original conceptualization within My Big TOE. See the link above and the earlier one: Why talk about Indra's Net and the Game of Life? located at this link: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2804 for a further discussion of this. The development of these random wrinkles in the reality cell field into everything that is, the bootstrapping operation to The One Consciousness, is described in MBT. The original occurrence of the reiteration represented by the 'cosmic dust' irregularities appearing after the Big Bang.

A post was made previously, started by Bette, who posted a link "What makes you uniquely you? Edelman" located at viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3074&hilit=soccer#wrapheader referring to an article in Discover Magazine on line of an interview with Nobel Laureate Dr. Gerald Edelman. In this article, Dr. Edelman described research creating robots using neural networks, simulated by programming within digital computers, as their control function, equipping them with video cameras and means of mobility and training them with experience in playing soccer. The result was that these robots consistently out played robots with designs based upon PMR developed artificial intelligence programs within standard digital computers with standard programming. Experience modified the neural networks by driving the alteration of the strength of interconnections of simulated ganglia resulting in 'learning' to play soccer and with progressively greater proficiency than the robots programmed based upon artificial intelligence concepts.

I now see this as providing a clue that explains something about how our virtual brains here in the PMR VR are created. That our virtual brains represent the effects of the rule sets defining PMR and provide feedback from the development occurring within our minds as they exist in consciousness space has been explained by Tom. They are another instance of reiteration, re use of patterns in our fractal reality already existing within Consciousness Space. They are reflections, in my opinion, of how I believe our minds in consciousness space exist as something like a digital neural network with vast numbers of interconnections of various strengths and multiple pathways that are the original models for the digital computer based simulations of neural networks here in PMR which are copied based on study of our VR virtual brains. Consciousness space is a digital reality as per Tom Campbell's original insights, but it is unlikely that it is at all like the digital logic based computers of PMR programmed with 'languages' from Machine Language to Assembler Language to higher level languages such as Algol or Fortran or C++ as has been discussed elsewhere. While I have referenced the fact that the digital automata within John Conway's creation, the Game of Life, can be used to simulate all the logical functions of a digital computer, I meant this only as an indication of potential capability and realized that it was not likely that anything like these logical constructs were directly used. Now with awareness of the successful use of digitally programmed simulations of neural networks and their potential superiority over purpose programmed computers, this expanded model has come into my conscious awareness.

This would also explain why we require training over time within our virtual reality of PMR in order to develop the quality of our beings, our minds, as they exist within Consciousness Space. Our minds are not reprogrammed into lower entropy, higher quality beings, as we would devise a new version of a computer program, but are trained by our PMR experience instead. Just as the soccer playing robots, with their very simple and limited neural network simulations are trained to play soccer, we are trained as our higher self to be better beings with lower entropy levels, develop love within our being and of ever higher quality and inclusiveness. Thus the development of VR realities to train our beings, the only real way to upgrade our individuated beings and thus to continually grow the quality of The One/AUM in total.

Thus our Higher Self, as being in fact our base self from which our VR specific 'self sub sets' are abstracted specifically for our VR experiences, is trained by our PMR VR experiences and to a much lesser degree by our NPMR VR experiences. The VR experience with the higher level of interaction and intensity proportionally generates the most training results. Functioning on a neural net basis, training or experience is the only way to cause the modifications in our digital neural net based minds that represent development of our beings, reduction of our entropy, development of spiritual love and development of a quality Self Concept and Intent. The intensity of the interactions occurring within PMR VRs such as our Earth System, accelerates further the rate of training. As originating from initially random non information, I see our higher selves as not initially possessing a Self Concept or Intent or a personality/self/ego. They were more blank slates with some capabilities or functionalities that somehow combined to become The One Consciousness in the bootstrapping process that Tom describes in MBT. The One Consciousness eventually developed by the primary process of MBT the virtual realities of the PMR type and the NPMR type in order to create the opportunity for enhanced development of all the individuated beings.

This to me makes a much better fit between these aspects of the model created by Tom and presented in My Big TOE. This is a very compelling conceptualization to me, logically filling out additional details of how Consciousness Reality and The One/AUM work internally. It eliminates the need for logically unlikely programming language and PMR digital computer concepts while maintaining the digital nature of reality in a much more believable and naturally developing manner. It is impossible to observe these aspects of digital Consciousness Reality directly as there is no way to 'see' the reality cells and their contents and interactions. We can only intuit and extrapolate logically from what we can learn here in our PMR VR in order to create a logical model to simulate the reality that is not available directly to us for examination and study. I have not passed this by Tom for his comments and await eagerly for his comments and expansion, presuming that he finds this a reasonable extension of the model of reality we are developing.

Ted


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 Post subject: Re: Decision Space
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:24 am 
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Here here!

Thanks for the post Ted.
Definitely HS has a better shape to me now.

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 Post subject: Re: Decision Space
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 3:20 pm 
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This tastes wonder-full Ted.
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Bette

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 Post subject: Re: Decision Space
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 6:25 pm 
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Excellent post, Ted.

The "higher-self" is a metaphor for what and who we are at the most fundamental core of our total being. Ted has taken that metaphor to a new level of specificity and clarity.

Because many readers have a strong attachment to the existence of themselves, they have often expressed an interest about the continuation or survival of their individual identities. I can feel the questions coming, so I will add just a short paragraph about the continuance of you -- the virtual PMR you.

The higher self is growing up (evolving) to be more and more like its daddy, AUM -- not a super advanced version of our PMR-VR-this-experience-packet-identity. We, the individual identities we have developed within this experience packet, are, as Ted pointed out, the sources of our Higher self's learning, its becoming, the lowering of its entropy.

Our individual identity, all our personal thoughts, feelings, choices, and interactions exist as a collection of data, this data is not lost or discarded -- it is part of the historical record. It is also a part of your higher self. Anything possibly useful to our evolution is saved. Understanding and appreciating one's history is very useful. It is what keeps one from going aimlessly in circles. One must grow enough in the present to be able to learn from the past. We, our individual identities are not lost -- they continue to be used as living history and may be reused in whole or in part in future VR projections -- whatever is most profitable to the evolution of the whole of us and to the evolution of the larger consciousness system.

Tom C


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 Post subject: Re: Decision Space
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:31 am 
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This is very interesting and brilliantly conceived. As an idea, I love it. So we need to ask: does it stand up to observation? Some would say that many people spend their whole lives learning nothing, just becoming increasingly delusional. Whole societies and cultures become delusional. One wonders how this would be patiently processed by all those HSs up there trying to individuate. One also wonders how many Planet Earths (PMRs) will be needed before light dawns in the PMR minds of most homo sapiens sapiens.

Let's put it another way: if there is evolution of consciousness, then one would expect that to be reflected in the increasing refinement of PMR residents. Is this actually happening? OK, so technology improves and we're all linked by mobile phones; but if we're all talking about last night's binge drinking or the latest soap, how is that going to be helpful?

Perhaps looming planetary demise will concentrate minds a bit.


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 Post subject: Re: Decision Space
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:28 am 
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Yes, we all should be rossw. How is today's "As the World Turns" broadcast, anything exciting happen you want to tell me about? Or are you having more of a "As My Stomach Turns", day? ;)

I think the evolution of consciousness is a slow process with occasional punctuated equilibrium progress perhaps, evolution by jerks as it's known, where there is a big change fast upon some major happening. I don't think of it, evolution of consciousness, as something you can see happening as it happens. It seems more like something attended to between lives, and as I understand it there are beings at varying levels of evolution here at any one time. I would imagine many of those free will awareness units FWAU that have reached higher organization don't hang around here to be examples of the progress being made. Luckily some do. My thoughts anyway.
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 Post subject: Re: Decision Space
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:56 am 
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I think the evolution of consciousness is a slow process with occasional punctuated equilibrium progress perhaps, evolution by jerks as it's known, where there is a big change fast upon some major happening. I don't think of it, evolution of consciousness, as something you can see happening as it happens. It seems more like something attended to between lives, and as I understand it there are beings at varying levels of evolution here at any one time. I would imagine many of those free will awareness units FWAU that have reached higher organization don't hang around here to be examples of the progress being made. Luckily some do. My thoughts anyway.
Love
Bette
You might enjoy this and I am curious to its validity. T. McKenna suggested that there was a transcendental "object" ahead of us in time that actually pulled the present towards itself (the TO). He also said it "existed beyond the event horizon of rational apprehension."

Otherwise these, are merely ideas. Funky but ideas nonetheless...I think Alfred Whitehead also stated something akin to this.

Tom is the preset 3D VR "baited" like a fish chasing a hooked worm, into the future by some kind of "attractor?" Is being/evolution "pulled" through 3D VR timespace rather than "pushed," (by the cosmic force of the big bang(?)) possibly by our Higher Self?

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 Post subject: Re: Decision Space
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:06 pm 
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So Tom, hi, is edge asking about the Fundamental Process here?
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Bette

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 Post subject: Re: Decision Space
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:20 pm 
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Yes, he is Bette.

Our culture is as it is because we the people make it that way. The culture doesn't drive the people, the people drive the culture. The culture is a reflection of us - we the people are its creators. The culture may limit your decision space, but you have free will within that decision space and must take full responsibility for every choice you make - blaming what you are (what you accomplish or fail to accomplish) in the Big Consciousness Picture on your PMR culture is a denial of your personal responsibility while what you accomplish in little picture terms is mostly irrelevant. The PMR environment (including rule-sets and culture) present challenges that give you opportunities to apply intent and make choices that evolve the quality of your consciousness. That our culture is a perfect summation of us makes it the perfect mirror to show us the results of the quality of our present intents - It gives us (collectively) exactly what we need and deserve. Do not think of the larger consciousness system as The Big Dudette playing with her pet people, manipulating things here and there to get the results she wants. It is just a big interactive system that evolves however it does. If it self-destructs then that is just how it works out.

Hey, its only a VR . The point of the VR is about the experience, the opportunity produced by the journey, not about how the journey ends. If the earth disintegrates, that result is equivalent to having to install a new server in the computer center - temporarily inconvenient to a few perhaps, but not that big a deal. Everything is backed up.

Nothing is certain. There is always risk. Evolution is an open-ended process in continual change and reorganization, not a random walk toward a fixed goal PMR and the larger consciousness system are both naturally evolving systems. The end up wherever they end up. Compared to the level of enlightenment and unconditional love in the dark ages we (our culture) would appear to be doing pretty well.

Rossw, I think it stands up to observation; our culture is a mess, just like we are -- a perfect match, just as expected. Personally, as bad as it is, I think we have come a long way in just ten thousand years. As bette says --evolution of and by jerks is inherently a slow process.

Tom C


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