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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 1:18 pm 
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Mike: On a clean system how long do those effects take to get out of the system completely?

If you have been eating no sugar and then ingest some sugar it takes about 4 hours to clear the worst of the effects and about 2 weeks to eliminate all of the effects. If you eat a "normal" diet it takes about 4 months before the withdrawls fade and another 2 for your biochemistry to settle into a healthy steady state.
Damn, 4 months?? That is an extremely long time in the system.

As you say, you are also extremely sensitive to the various states of consciousness, and thus you notice changes in consciousness by food very accurate. But is the effect on consciousness as severe for an individual that is not as aware as you are? An (maybe bad) analogy would be that you have more to "lose" in term in awareness than an average person, which means the relative difference is much greater.

Our culture has really made a great minefield out there for consciousness, it seems almost impossible to avoid the mines. :-/


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 4:09 pm 
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Hi all,
I never usually read the msn front page as it's normally full of garbage, incredibly today there was some good info on there regarding super foods.
Seems very accurate and the actual content contains no hidden advertising !!

http://health.msn.com/nutrition/slidesh ... ageindex=1

wayno

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:14 pm 
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Mike: On a clean system how long do those effects take to get out of the system completely?

If you have been eating no sugar and then ingest some sugar it takes about 4 hours to clear the worst of the effects and about 2 weeks to eliminate all of the effects. If you eat a "normal" diet it takes about 4 months before the withdrawls fade and another 2 for your biochemistry to settle into a healthy steady state.
Damn, 4 months?? That is an extremely long time in the system.

As you say, you are also extremely sensitive to the various states of consciousness, and thus you notice changes in consciousness by food very accurate. But is the effect on consciousness as severe for an individual that is not as aware as you are? An (maybe bad) analogy would be that you have more to "lose" in term in awareness than an average person, which means the relative difference is much greater.

Our culture has really made a great minefield out there for consciousness, it seems almost impossible to avoid the mines. :-/

SS, I think he means that it takes about 4 months to get over the desire for the stuff.... a person can cut out sugar and if s/he is at all sensitive, there is a good chance that they will notice clearer mentation and an more even emotional state even within a few days. But the body is used to its sugar whomps and its caffeine whomps, and you find yourself walking past a cafe and smell of the coffee and the promise of chocolate decadence cake together exert more gravity than a black hole, and in you go! And oooooooo! it's so good!!!! ...until you walk out the door and realize your consciousness has lapsed into extreme gonzo-land. No concentration. Wild ideation. The mind takes off on its own and you even keep forgetting that you mean to keep up with the damned thing.

Once you realize what is happening you tend to, or one can, I should say, wind up in a challenging break-addiction process. I'm there now. And as you say, there is a real mine-field out there. You just about can't eat at restaurants. (I got nuked with MSG a couple weeks back.) Things that used to be okay no longer are (corn? soy? forget it! GM stuff keeps getting mixed in. When I eat anything corn these days, I tend to break out pretty bad. Dairy...? NaHOhoo! Full of growth hormones, pus, and other debris.) ..and so on.

I seem to be getting more and more sensitive as time goes on, and maybe that is just a function of getting older (as far as I can tell, my current evolutionary vector is 'sideways'.) I suspect everyone is a little different with this sensitivity. Take note that most folks out there do not monitor the condition of their psyche at all! Mostly it isn't that they couldn't; no one has really pointed it out to them and the very idea has never occurred to them.

The best thing to do is experiment yourself, without going to extremes. Try eating 'clean' for a few days. Raw, organic vegetables, maybe some cooked grains (rice, wheat berries), olive oil, cider vinegar, salads. And monitor your clarity, the dynamics of your emotional states etc. And then after a few days, try, oh, nothing too extreme, say a candy bar, or a bowl of one of those brightly colored sugar-bomb cereals... and watch what happens. If you really want to you can find a way to double-blind it and test yourself at measurable tasks (multiplying two or three digit numbers in your head, or somesuch), but the effect is really noticeable, just 'on inspection' as they say.

Let us know what you find out!

oh, BTW, I am much more an 'average person' type, and not anything like the Red Baron of NPMR that TWC is. So 'sensitivity' to food does not absolutely correlate with 'evolvedness'.

-Montana


Last edited by Montana on Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:53 pm 
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Montana I'd say with dairy the trick is to raise your own, as is the trick with the rest probably. I had the idea that if people had to shake their own butter out (put heavy cream into a jar and shake for 30 minutes) every time they wanted to use butter, at least they would get some exercise out of it. If that heavy cream came from sweet old Bessy, or a goat, in your yard you would have control over hormones and such.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:39 am 
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Quote:
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Quote:
Mike: On a clean system how long do those effects take to get out of the system completely?

If you have been eating no sugar and then ingest some sugar it takes about 4 hours to clear the worst of the effects and about 2 weeks to eliminate all of the effects. If you eat a "normal" diet it takes about 4 months before the withdrawls fade and another 2 for your biochemistry to settle into a healthy steady state.
Damn, 4 months?? That is an extremely long time in the system.

As you say, you are also extremely sensitive to the various states of consciousness, and thus you notice changes in consciousness by food very accurate. But is the effect on consciousness as severe for an individual that is not as aware as you are? An (maybe bad) analogy would be that you have more to "lose" in term in awareness than an average person, which means the relative difference is much greater.

Our culture has really made a great minefield out there for consciousness, it seems almost impossible to avoid the mines. :-/

SS, I think he means that it takes about 4 months to get over the desire for the stuff.... a person can cut out sugar and if s/he is at all sensitive, there is a good chance that they will notice clearer mentation and an more even emotional state even within a few days. But the body is used to its sugar whomps and its caffeine whomps, and you find yourself walking past a cafe and smell of the coffee and the promise of chocolate decadence cake together exert more gravity than a black hole, and in you go! And oooooooo! it's so good!!!! ...until you walk out the door and realize your consciousness has lapsed into extreme gonzo-land. No concentration. Wild ideation. The mind takes off on its own and you even keep forgetting that you mean to keep up with the damned thing.
Ah, I see now! 4 months withdrawal, that's a hard one.
Quote:
The best thing to do is experiment yourself, without going to extremes. Try eating 'clean' for a few days. Raw, organic vegetables, maybe some cooked grains (rice, wheat berries), olive oil, cider vinegar, salads. And monitor your clarity, the dynamics of your emotional states etc. And then after a few days, try, oh, nothing too extreme, say a candy bar, or a bowl of one of those brightly colored sugar-bomb cereals... and watch what happens. If you really want to you can find a way to double-blind it and test yourself at measurable tasks (multiplying two or three digit numbers in your head, or somesuch), but the effect is really noticeable, just 'on inspection' as they say.

Let us know what you find out!



-Montana
I am getting more mindful of this each day, I have in the past month or so got much less inclined to eat meat, but it is hard to change my diet radically when I live with my mother and brother. There is still a long way.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:59 am 
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Ah, I see now! 4 months withdrawal, that's a hard one.
It wouldn't be as bad if you were voluntarily thrown into it where it was already established with tried and true production of sustenance presented to you with Love and care. A four month retreat somehow made a social norm like going into the national guards, you know, bills get paid, job is still there when you're done learning how to eat well "out here", like that. Four month gestation.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:59 pm 
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I have a little dairy, but I make sure it is always organic. Doesn't that mean that it doesn't have hormones etc. in it?

I did completely go off the wagon and had pizza a few days ago. The next day I actually felt like I had an alcohol hang over. It lasted the whole day.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:39 pm 
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It is hard when you live with folks with other ideas of what food should be. In this house, all sorts or 'bad' things get brought home by other family members. And when you get up at 3 AM to let the dogs out, and you're half asleep, and your blood sugar is low, and there, on the kitchen counter, quietly whispering your name is Costco's giant super-chocolate chocolate cake, you are almost beaten from the start. ;-D

But you know...? The more aware you are, the less of a problem this stuff becomes. I actually quit smoking after, well, more than thirty years that way.... presumably because I became more aware of what it is. I'd light up, and take a drag, and it was like... what is this? I didn't like the smell of that smoke in my clothes and I could smell it even in my body odor. The awareness just made it undo-able. Really, the same thing applies to everything else in our lives: If we are awake to what is happening, it dampens out enthusiasm for even long-established bad habits.

Too, I have found my willingness to consume stuff I know I shouldn't as something that can be taken as an indicator of my present level of awareness.

Sainsbury: Stuff that is sold as organic in the states may or may not be organic. Lobbyists saw to it that the legal meaning of the term 'organic' got fairly gutted a few years back. So, legally, all sorts of stuff gets called 'organic' that most folks feel shouldn't. And even then we have to be dependent on the whole supply chain being honest. If an unscrupulous vendor found that he could get twice as much for the milk if it is in 'organic' -labeled boxes, the only reason he wouldn't do it is if he both could not bribe any overseers and he thought he would get caught.

If you can, the best bet is to, if you are going to use dairy, buy as close to your local producer as you can. Wherever you live, there are probably small dairy farms not too far away. Local health food stores, especially ones with interested and aware management, may well be able to tell you exactly where it comes from, even the farm. (It happens here in Helena.)

Another food alert, BTW:

Revealed: the nasty secret in your kitchen cupboard


18 of 20 most popular tins made with controversial bisphenol A in lining

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 32742.html

-Montana


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:38 pm 
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I'm in a situation that I am asking the correct people at school about, but also want to put here for advice too. I'm going bottom line here, or will try to. The project that will or will not get me my MS degree was about street gang mentality mutation when it was a thesis. Now it is a Capstone and MUCH shorter so I pulled one aspect my research discovered of "anchor citizen's" which are infants born in the US to illegal immigrant mother's who become US citizen's at birth, who live in fear of parental deportation, who use public services requiring English as a second language costs in school as well as having a little brain damage from the fear and insecurity of their life, and then at 18 can ask as many relatives as they want to be US citizens too with no cap or limit on how many per year can become citizen's this way. My concept is the interpretation of the 14th Amendment is the cause and the fixing of that one part of the cure. I also have to point out all the ways these humans are defective and a bother to the US. That seems mean to me to point this out and maybe hurt some feelings, they may just get real mad too.

So, with a couple hours to figure this out before I have to turn something in today, I am thinking of again changing my topic. Let's also say I am not getting a lot of advice at school because I have been obnoxious in making sure no more mistakes in information given happen in my situation. I'm actually in a struggle there which hopefully they are looking at evidence to see I didn't have "conduct" in class issues, I just said things some people didn't like, but I backed what I said up.

Anyways, I have been doing some scholarly research yesterday and today and think I can do a decent paper on children cognitive development, physical health, and what they eat at school and at home relating to this thread basically, but on to all processed foods, and the government subsidy of "bad" food. Plus, the cure I am required to come up with is doable, and is directly related to the business I am still trying to get off the ground, or into the ground, of putting gardens in every school and yard eventually. So there I worry about Intent, you know me, I worry. Any thoughts?
Thank you.
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Bette

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:38 pm 
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I swore of sugar forever ago. I read the labels carefully and do not use HFCS products. I have been using stevia for over a decade with no noticable negative effects. I use the KAL brand Pure Stevia Extract (no maltodextrose or anything else). Stevia has been used in food products in Japan for 40 years. I think the sugar industry lobby controlls the FDA stance on stevia. For further study try:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stevia
http://www.stevia.net/
http://www.stevia.com/
And don't even think about aspartame!! http://www.dorway.com/
Dennis


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:32 pm 
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Hi Dennis
Welcome to Tom discussion forums. I won't ask about aspartame. ;)
Love to you and yours,
Bette

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:39 am 
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Okay, I did it, changed my topic (again), here it is.

Growing Intelligent Gardeners

The food that people eat is what is important when educating our children in healthy lifelong eating habits that support cognitive functionality that allows them to live up to their highest potential. Current education styles teach to "nutrition" rather than teaching about how to grow and prepare foods for our own self and health. What children learn in school transfers to the home, so school is the place we need to concentrate the efforts towards helping society become healthy in general as we raise our future.
The foods our youth eat, or do not eat, are directly related to their cognitive development, and the only place our educational system has some control in what our youth eat is in the school setting. Enough studies have shown the harm done to our children having sugar or high fructose corn syrup (HFCS) drinks consumed at school to disallow them be sold at school although Gatorade contains HFCS and is allowed indicating more education is needed. The school setting is the obvious place for this new education on teaching about "real" food rather than teaching to "nutrition" that does not transfer to actual use.
One way to facilitate a fresh way of looking at real food in an experiential setting is to mandate raised bed gardening in all public schools. Raised bed gardening per author's design of beds is the most efficient method to allow all to participate regardless of special needs. All public school settings, pre-school through college having garden classes with interaction between special education students and all age groups per school is the goal. These garden courses utilized to teach effective personal gardening techniques transferable to the home. Then effective preparation techniques for receiving the most benefits from the work involved in fueling our bodies with food that allows us to become the best that we can be, both cognitively and physically, will be part of the course work.
The result of children becoming involved with the complete life cycle of growing food including how to set-up efficient gardens in their own areas including preparation of said food for consumption is a more interested and engaged child. The result of children receiving education concerning real food rather than "nutrition" and of them actually exercising and eating the produce will be a healthier body of students to teach standard school fare to, and better test scores eventually. This can become a global phenomena resulting in a healthier society.



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Bette

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:06 am 
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Tom-"read every label"

A very popular ad for a kid's snack food (Pop Tarts) is currently running incessantly on several channels.
Look what we are feeding our kids:

Ingredients
ENRICHED FLOUR (WHEAT FLOUR, NIACIN, REDUCED IRON, THIAMIN MONONITRATE [VITAMIN B1], RIBOFLAVIN [VITAMIN B2], FOLIC ACID), CORN SYRUP, SOYBEAN AND PALM OIL (WITH TBHQ FOR FRESHNESS), SUGAR, DEXTROSE, HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP, CORN SYRUP SOLIDS, CONTAINS TWO PERCENT OR LESS OF MODIFIED CORN STARCH, WHEY, SALT, CORN CEREAL, CORNSTARCH, LEAVENING (BAKING SODA, SODIUM ACID PYROPHOSPHATE, MONOCALCIUM PHOSPHATE), FRUCTOSE, NATURAL AND ARTIFICIAL BLUEBERRY FLAVOR, GELATIN, CELLULOSE GUM,CARAMEL COLOR ADDED, SOY LECITHIN, MOLASSES, XANTHAN GUM, DATEM, VITAMIN A PALMITATE, NIACINAMIDE, REDUCED IRON, RED #40, PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE (VITAMIN B6), RIBOFLAVIN (VITAMIN B2), BLUE #1 LAKE, THIAMIN HYDROCHLORIDE (VITAMIN B1), BLUE #1, FOLIC ACID.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:16 am 
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During a search to make sure I had enough "good" data on high fructose corn syrup and cognitive development I found a huge amount of information concerning diet and epilepsy which is basically seizure disorder, so autism comes into the picture here since Art has had seizures. Very interesting....
Love
Bette

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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 8:35 am 
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My lifestyle is definitely in need of some changes.
Ok you guys, I quit drinking coffee and so far that is going very well. I didn't have any Saturday or Sunday before the workshop, so Sunday night when I came home, I told my husband, "don't make me any in the morning, I am taking a break". When he got over his initial shock, he agreed, and I haven't had any yesterday or today. So that is four days with no coffee.

I am also trying to get off sugar. I want to see for myself what Tom explained in the workshop, how it clouds up our consciousness. I read the ingredients of several items I didn't expect to see sugar in: pretzels, Ritz crackers and English muffins, and they all had it in one form or another.

I can see this is going to take some effort but I sense it will be worth it. I will keep you all posted.


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