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 Post subject: Beyond OBE
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:03 pm 
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I have read these posts about going beyond OBEs: http://www.my-big-toe.com/catalognew/BB ... ight=#2515 and http://www.my-big-toe.com/catalognew/BB ... ight=#2424 .

I was wondering if the following link is kind of what you mean: http://www.astralpulse.com/frankkepple.html .

This person was active on forums until about 2 years ago, but he was very insightful and described NPMR a lot like you are doing. To sum up, he built on Monroe's Focus level model and simplified it into 4 main areas of consciousness, for our system. He was an engineer by trade and took a scientific approach to studying consciousness, much like you are Tom. Granted, your books goes into greater detail but it appears to me that the maps that are given by both of you might be overlapping.

I am wondering if his description of what he calls "Focus 4" related to what you are talking about when you talk of the need to go beyond OBEs and go "out of your mind".

A description I once read of this place he labeled "Focus 4" was that it felt like you were losing your mind.

Am I way off base and making a connection where none exists?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:43 am 
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Well, he sees 2012 as significant. I can't wait till 2012 just so I can watch all of the rationalisation of why 2012 brought about nothing. Maybe someone will figure out that Nostradamus explains it all in an overlooked passage.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:44 pm 
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There's nothing on that post about 2012.

The website is run by someone else and, unfortunately, has degraded to the point where there is a ton of marketing and selling of products. The forums had a different atmosphere up until a few years ago.

The link I specified is a collection of one poster's experiences (the poster, Frank, does not run the website) summed up into a coherent article ( by someone else, since Frank is MIA).

I agree with you about the 2012 hype, but doomsday prophecies seem to be a part of a lot of cultures, so no surprise.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:52 pm 
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JoshM: Granted, your books goes into greater detail but it appears to me that the maps that are given by both of you might be overlapping.

Tom: I did read over Frank's posts -- interesting that he cut up consciousness-space into four areas after declaring that there was no separation within consciousness. Everything he said was driven by genuine experience — Frank is a good explorer. Of course there is overlap -- we (and everyone else) are exploring the same larger reality -- there should be major overlap. The difference is the extent of our experience, the context or structure we place that experience within, and how we communicate that structure to others. Each of these reflect the uniqueness of the explorer — his beliefs and interpretations.

JoshM: I am wondering if his description of what he calls "Focus 4" related to what you are talking about when you talk of the need to go beyond OBEs and go "out of your mind".

Tom: Yes, it is -- that is one description of it. I find his Focus 3 and 4 to be defined rather narrowly. The superset of the larger reality is bigger yet.

JoshM: A description I once read of this place he labeled "Focus 4" was that it felt like you were losing your mind.

Tom: That feeling is only temporary -- until one gets oriented and accustomed to that mode of awareness and existence -- then it becomes much like any other reality frame -- only different.

JoshM: Am I way off base and making a connection where none exists?

Tom: No, you are on target. One reality, many views and perspectives, each necessarily limited and structured by the mind of the beholder.

Tom C


Last edited by twcjr on Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:16 pm 
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"There's nothing on that post about 2012."

I was referring to the website provided in the links. And the 2012 info is deeper into the website.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:49 pm 
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Thanks for the reply, Tom. I am glad that I wasn't making a connection where none existed. I still have yet to verify any of the more far out concepts through my own direct experience, so that is what I am focusing on now.


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 Post subject: Re: Beyond OBE
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 12:42 pm 
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JoshM,
I read Frank's material from the link you posted and I like it. I find his descriptions, for the most part, match up very well with the cosmology in My Big TOE. My Big TOE goes into more detail of how things work though. The biggest discrepancy I saw was that Frank says there is no time outside of PMR. That all things happen simultaneously from a higher viewpoint. I wonder if it isn't the high level view with instant access to future probablities and past history threads that might mess explorers up. At first I latched on to this concept myself (without the higher view) and until Tom came along I believed that.
I find Frank's concepts of Focus 1,2,3,4 match closely with what I understand of Tom's concepts of PMR, OS, NPMRN, and NPMR respectively. Good post. Thanks

Ramon


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 Post subject: Re: Beyond OBE
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:27 pm 
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Ramon,

The concept of simultaneous time is an illogical box that you get stuck in if you don't have the concept of digital consciousness. Considering that everything is stored (probable future as well as actualized and un-actualized past) in AUM's database, one could describe that fact as everything happening simultaneously but really it would be better to say that everything is simultaneously available in the database. Without time there is no change - i.e., no growth and no learning. There is time in NPMR; people get confused because the probable future as well as actualized and un-actualized past are all simultaneously available in The Big Computer's database.

Tom C


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 Post subject: Re: Beyond OBE
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:57 pm 
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Ramon:

As far as I understand Frank's and Tom's models, I think Frank's Focus 4 is the same as what Tom calls the "Out of Mind Experience," which is the beginning of the "real" work.

Unfortunately, Frank stopped posting towards the end of 2005. Last I heard, he had some serious infection stemming from an old motorcycle accident and I presume that he did not make it. It is unfortunate, because he was very active in trying to strip away all of the old mystical beliefs about NPMR and trying to get everyone to experience what he labelled as Focus 4 in the shortest amount of time possible.


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 Post subject: Re: Beyond OBE
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:06 am 
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I'm a little late on a reply here, but I agree with the comments. Frank Kepple was a great resource for consciousness exploration. He also gave a pretty good set of techniques for obe, or as he called it phasing. Very similar to the meditation ideas set forth by Tom. I myself have tried every technique known to man and have had several successes but can never seem to replicate them. I am going back to simplicity. I would love to see Kepple return to posting somewhere, hopefully he has not left PMR permanently.


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 Post subject: Re: Beyond OBE
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:03 am 
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Quote:
I'm a little late on a reply here, but I agree with the comments. Frank Kepple was a great resource for consciousness exploration. He also gave a pretty good set of techniques for obe, or as he called it phasing. Very similar to the meditation ideas set forth by Tom. I myself have tried every technique known to man and have had several successes but can never seem to replicate them. I am going back to simplicity. I would love to see Kepple return to posting somewhere, hopefully he has not left PMR permanently.
I'm also "a little late to the party here", but I wanted to point out something. So please forgive this bumping of an old thread... I just found it thanks to the breadcrumb from another thread. :)

This is something I've come to realize through my experiences with it... Franks "Phasing" (which is 'supposedly' that which Bob Monroe did in Ultimate Journeys) isn't similar to Tom's Point of Consciousness meditations, it *IS* Tom's PoC meditation (Transcendental Meditation). There's literally no difference, the goals of the two are the same. Even the methods used are the same. The goal is to remove your consciousness from your physical awareness and senses.

This is something that I feel strongly that Frank didn't realize at the time as he felt that he had no idea what meditation was. He also said, quite emphatically, that he didn't practice it. Well... he did. He just didn't know it. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Beyond OBE
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:07 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm a little late on a reply here, but I agree with the comments. Frank Kepple was a great resource for consciousness exploration. He also gave a pretty good set of techniques for obe, or as he called it phasing. Very similar to the meditation ideas set forth by Tom. I myself have tried every technique known to man and have had several successes but can never seem to replicate them. I am going back to simplicity. I would love to see Kepple return to posting somewhere, hopefully he has not left PMR permanently.
I'm also "a little late to the party here", but I wanted to point out something. So please forgive this bumping of an old thread... I just found it thanks to the breadcrumb from another thread. :)

This is something I've come to realize through my experiences with it... Franks "Phasing" (which is 'supposedly' that which Bob Monroe did in Ultimate Journeys) isn't similar to Tom's Point of Consciousness meditations, it *IS* Tom's PoC meditation (Transcendental Meditation). There's literally no difference, the goals of the two are the same. Even the methods used are the same. The goal is to remove your consciousness from your physical awareness and senses.

This is something that I feel strongly that Frank didn't realize at the time as he felt that he had no idea what meditation was. He also said, quite emphatically, that he didn't practice it. Well... he did. He just didn't know it. :)
Thanks for bumping this man!

My understanding of the larger reality has increased tenfold because of this (Kepple's simplified Focus levels have helped me understand things tremendously). Even though Tom and Bob Monroe's explanations are solid (and brutally thorough), it helps to have another voice give you a different (simpler) perspective of the same thing.

Thanks again.


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