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 Post subject: Re: Relationships
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 7:15 am 
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Bette,

There is a lot good that can be said for becoming at home, comfortable, with yourself. To not need the company of others, sexually or otherwise, in order to live your life. To reduce needs and neediness. No one has ever claimed, to my knowledge, that life in NPMR has the intensities and drives of PMR but rather the opposite. Nor that we experience these within our higher/total self. After all, that is what PMR was invented and developed for. And even here we cycle out of that intense, hormone driven mode as we age. The body shuts these functions down with age, basically as being a bad choice at that time. It becomes more difficult for a mother and child to live through a pregnancy at an advanced age for the mother. It becomes more difficult for a father to provide what he should contribute to the child rearing. Even in the modern world with the support of modern medicine and perhaps accumulated wealth, in general it is better for a child to have parents in the more normal child rearing age range. PMR has a biological clock for its participants. Sexual activity becomes more of an optional thing for a loving relationship within a partnership. Surveys of elderly couples, as I remember reading the results, indicate that the importance of closeness and sharing increases. Simply being together as partners and sharing your life experiences and physical contact and closeness. It appears to be a deliberate slowing down to review and put perspective on the past, to make peace if necessary. Not everyone gets to experience this but it is a common experience. So you have not necessarily lost anything by experiencing such a common scenario in the normal pattern.

It is unfortunate that your experience has been so negative in the past. It is unfortunate but true that fidelity is such a seldom thing. I have read that it can be directly related to biology, specifically to the relative testicle size of the males of a species. If species are compared on a scale of fidelity to their mates and correlated directly with relative testicular mass compared to body mass, there is supposedly a direct relationship. And unfortunately we as humans fall at about 125% (if I remember the right number) of the proper size for life time fidelity within a mated pair. There are also factors that enter in based upon "reproductive strategies". The deck is biologically stacked against fidelity for humans. And until an individual can step beyond the power of its biological imperative, what you see is what you get.

Ted


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 Post subject: Re: Relationships
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 9:14 am 
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I can truly say that now my life is better than my dreams were. Last year I married my One in Hawaii, a sunset wedding on the beach. We had a Hawaiian ceremony and a sprinkle of rain and a rainbow showed up during the blessing. Reverend Colleen was very surprised as it was the first time it had ever happened as she called for it.
That's amazing, thanks for sharing that. Fairytale story endings do come true. I'm jealous, but happy for you. :)
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I just don't get it...

What ever happened to partnership and be a team to achieve things together?
I don't understand it either. Why get married if your not hot for the one your getting married too? Went to a party with three other guys, wile three girls were showing up shortly after. The one guy just got married a week earlier, and gave me his wedding ring. Well the girls showed up, and everyone went off to do their thing, wile I got drunk and passed out. Looking at the wedding ring I thought "if she was only so lucky to have me". Why is it that we fall in love with the one that will do these kind of things to us? Why is it that we can't see the one, who is so often standing right in front of us, that will truly love us?

Sex may be great, but would think sex and love (intimacy) would be a hundred fold better. Don't have enough experience with either or to know, but maybe we are missing out. Maybe everyone else is right, and we shouldn't hold on to the ideals of the "twin flame". Being hansom, people think there is something wrong with me for not chasing after sex, but I just don't want it without love. If sex is all there is, I'll pass on it all together. However, I know the fairytale ending is possible, Stoker's post is a recent example, along with a few others I know. All I need to know now is how to get there, and that is being answered.
Quote:
I don't believe I am dyslexic, but fit the bill otherwise with probably some ADD without the hyperactivity (I'm lazy). Where have you been all my life? The answer, for the first half of it I wasn't born yet, lol. I just hit 49, maybe next life, hey.
LOL, been hiding in my hobbit hole, watching love comedies and wishing I was a superhero.

When my girlfriends broke up with me it hurt so bad that I never want to experience it again. After that I didn't have enough trust in anyone to try it again. From my point of view, men are perverts, wile women are materialistic. Neither wanted true love, but only their PMR pleasures. I know that this is not true for everyone, and that true love can be had. Knowing that, I'll risk trusting someone once again, armed with a better understanding of the subject.

Some more ramblings...

Kept having a dream about this dark skinned Japanese woman. She was the most gorgeous thing I've ever seen, and would pop into a dream ever so often. It's been a wile since I've seen her, but last time was on a train. It was the two of us in the same seat, wile two other men sat at a distance. She was a chatter box, non stop talking, but I hadn't heard a word of it. Was to enamored by her beauty to listen, and thought "wonder if she would go out with me". Then she stopped talking and looked at me through the corner of her eye. The dream ended after that, but she was the epitome of my dream girl. Tried to find that face of hers, but to no avail. Often wondered if she was real, and what relationship did I have with her. Now that's I wanted, but it was only a dream. :)

Shin


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 Post subject: Re: Relationships
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 12:26 pm 
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Was it only a dream Shin? I'd take some train trips if I were you. Go somewhere you love, on the train, with no expectations.

Love
Bette

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what is?
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 Post subject: Re: Relationships
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 12:28 pm 
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Ted said: If species are compared on a scale of fidelity to their mates and correlated directly with relative testicular mass compared to body mass, there is supposedly a direct relationship.


And I'd always attributed it to another related body part ;)

Love
Bette

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 Post subject: Re: Relationships
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 2:37 pm 
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It is unfortunate that your experience has been so negative in the past. It is unfortunate but true that fidelity is such a seldom thing. I have read that it can be directly related to biology, specifically to the relative testicle size of the males of a species. If species are compared on a scale of fidelity to their mates and correlated directly with relative testicular mass compared to body mass, there is supposedly a direct relationship. And unfortunately we as humans fall at about 125% (if I remember the right number) of the proper size for life time fidelity within a mated pair. There are also factors that enter in based upon "reproductive strategies". The deck is biologically stacked against fidelity for humans. And until an individual can step beyond the power of its biological imperative, what you see is what you get.

Ted
In trying to make sense of all this and how men are more likely to cheat than women (for the most part) I was thinking today that maybe this is the biggest test for males in this planet, but then I realized how sad would that be because if this is the case they are always fighting a feeling they can not act on and further more they don't have the capability of experiencing how I feel it which it is actually wanting to be with the one person you are in love with and that is all, which in return it is a wonderful feeling.
But if all those theories are true then in the other hand women will never have the intensity of being with a partner that wants her and only her and this is sad as well; seems we were born under the impression we are here to compliment each other and even now we are very much individuals that can survive alone we also can complete each other when together and we can say there is this one person that is a tad bit just more special than the rest because I can spend the rest of my life with him/her, not only I can but I want to because these are the specials feelings we have towards that one person, not just any person but that one person.


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 Post subject: Re: Relationships
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 2:41 pm 
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Ted said: If species are compared on a scale of fidelity to their mates and correlated directly with relative testicular mass compared to body mass, there is supposedly a direct relationship.


And I'd always attributed it to another related body part ;)

Love
Bette
HAha!

I don't know... it seems so screwed if it was true.


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 Post subject: Re: Relationships
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 2:46 pm 
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There has also been research on women which found that when they are preparing hormonally to throw an egg (ovulate) they find macho men (with the big cajones) more attractive over the nicer guy. The rest of the time they are happy with their mate the nice guy, for survival of the species it is the BB'd man :) who sparks interest though. It goes both ways.

Love
Bette

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 Post subject: Re: Relationships
PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:26 pm 
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I'm probably not ready to have a relationship.

Love
Bette

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 Post subject: Re: Relationships
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:50 pm 
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Was it only a dream Shin? I'd take some train trips if I were you. Go somewhere you love, on the train, with no expectations.

Love
Bette
You know that's a great idea. Thanks Bette :)
Quote:
I'm probably not ready to have a relationship.

Love
Bette
Me neither, but I'll let the universe decide that. Who knows what will happen.

Shin


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 Post subject: Re: Relationships
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:50 pm 
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I am actually quiet not ready but I will be soon.... so I think LOL

We'll see ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Relationships
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 3:52 pm 
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Here is something I read today at http://lifestyle.msn.com/chan_printarti ... d=12180447


"Love at First Sight?
By Denis Leary
A real phenomenon or the stuff of legend? Denis Leary makes the case for instant romance.

The first time I saw the gorgeous girl who is now my wife, I can honestly claim it for what it was: a soul-shattering experience. I was then as I am now, a tall, thin, wisecracking, sarcastic Irish-American man with a moppy head of blond hair and a vague idea of what love is supposed to be.

My parents had grown up on adjacent farms in Ireland, had known each other since childhood, had emigrated to America, and had been married for thirty-something years. My sister, Ann Marie, was dating one of my best friends from growing up (they are still together today, three decades later), my older brother, Johnny, was married to his high school sweetheart (still is), and nobody in my family on either side of the ocean had ever married anyone they hadn't known since they were kids or teenagers.

I, on the other hand, had skipped all the chicks from the neighborhood, kindergarten through high school, and managed to get through college with a number of girlfriends, one-night stands, and side dishes, and I had no ring and no one to answer to at the end of the day. I was teaching part-time at my alma mater, Emerson College, and planning on sleeping with as many female students as I could.

Hell, it was 1982 and teachers barely got paid, so having sex with students wasn't just a perk, it was often the reason you took the job. There was no law against it at the time, and Emerson was a prime place to pursue such an extracurricular activity.

I started the fall term with a class of about 15 kids, half of whom were girls, three of whom I found attractive. All three of them were smart and somewhat funny (somewhat being the key word). I was never into shy girls, or dumb ones. I like a woman who can laugh as hard as I do and be just as snarky and fast with a quip or comeback. Physically, I like girls of all shapes and sizes, but having sworn off any long-term relationships, I was still very aware of being highly attracted to tall, thin, moppy-headed blond girls. Still, I was fully capable of adjusting to small and quiet, big and busty, wide-assed and witty. I was in my experimental phase.

And then the door opened.

(Continued)

Ann Lembeck, who had just transferred from another college and had been directed to my class by my boss, Dr. James Randall, stood in the doorway asking if this was Creative Writing Such and Such with Mr. Leary.

I nodded yes and said, "Come on in." But what I was hearing in my head was white noise. My knees literally buckled. The blood in my body suddenly gathered itself into a tight red blood knot behind my eyeballs, stepped onto an imaginary elevator, and dropped from the top of my skull down to my feet. And then shot straight back up. Twice.

Her eyes were a piercing shade of blue. Her legs were endless and outrageous and worthy of many other clichés. She was tall and thin with moppy strawberry-blond hair, and her smile was an atom bomb.

The image and the moment are stuck in a Crystal Evergreen Ever-Forever Film Loop latched across the mid-horizon of my memory: her eyes, her hair, the way her hands moved to brush back her bangs, her tan thighs. I think I stood there staring at her for what must have been a month, knowing this:

My life is over if this girl is funny. My life is really over if this girl is smart and funny.

To make matters worse, she had a puppy with her. Did I mention I love dogs?

Well, let me cut to the chase. She was funny and smart, and the dog was too.

I didn't sleep with her until the semester was over. Not because of any morality clause in my evil insides or because it would have been wrong. I knew, the very marrow in my bones knew, that once this thing started there would be no stopping. We have been together now for 25 years. In a row. And not all of it has been pretty. We've had our ups and our downs. But that moment—Ann Lembeck standing in that doorway with those eyes, those thighs, that puppy, that smile—if I were a horse, it would be branded on my ass.

By the way, in case you were wondering about Ann's grade in the writing class? A+.

In life?

They don't have one high enough.


Denis Leary is currently starring in Rescue Me on FX."



I think this is what we are looking for, this reaction when 'in the presence of' the one.

Love
Bette

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 Post subject: Re: Relationships
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:07 pm 
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That reaction is nothing compared to what I had experience and it turns out that it was not the one.

That reaction sounds more like what happened with my ex-husband which we stayed together 15 years so I guess that is not too bad altogether, and we brought two smart beautiful and pain in the rear boys to the world.

The experience I felt with the one guy I wrote about before had all that and much, much MUCH more.


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 Post subject: Re: Relationships
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:26 pm 
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Given free will, the outcome of a relationship can never be a sure thing.

Though love at first sight makes a good movie theme and no doubt occasionally works out very well in "real life", it is not the most likely way to end up with a wonderful long term relationship. It is my experience and observation that the probability of finding that wonderful long term relationship goes way up if temps aren't sizzling and the emotions aren't soaring too early on. Better to start developing the basics of your connection rather than light a fire under the hard wired physical and emotional responses that are programmed into your biology. Become friends and explore the depth and breadth of your connectedness -- develop "like", and then let "like" grow into love and love into something truly wonderful before you let the fire begin to burn out of control. The first time you make love it should be perfectly clear to both that you are making love and not just having sex.

It is ego that gets in the way of finding and developing good relationships. If you have no expectations, needs, desires, and wants focused on the relationship, and thus just let it unfold naturally however it does, you are more likely to end up with a winner. And I am not talking about expectations, needs, desires, and wants at the intellectual level (where you are aware of them and can let them have free rein or suppress them), rather I mean that you must not have expectations, needs, desires, and wants at the being level, at the core of your being beyond the reach of your intellectual awareness or control - the deep down inside you. Until you personally achieve that, you may not be ready for The One. Or you may be lucky and grow into oneness with your partner. Relationship is largely what you make it once you have two individuals with the potential to grow their quality together. First you have to find that potential (which is easier before you let your biological programming take over your brain) and then you both have to conscientiously develop it and re-earn the privilege to be a part of it every single day.

Tom C


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 Post subject: Re: Relationships
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:44 am 
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While it would be cool to really share life with someone, I really don't stress on it too much day to day. I can barely stand myself and couldn't expect someone to stand me just as I am, although that has been the plan for a long time. Find someone that loves me as I am, and I they, and then bloom into a flower. It was suppose to be a test to see if it was just sex, I guess, but now that I can see what it was I am not real proud of that little game I played. It did keep me single. At this point friends is where I am at, becoming friends without sexual tension. If I ever have relations again as Bette, it will be love based. I've no interest in just having sex. This life has been quite the lesson concerning sex; I believe I have got it now, it's about time ;)

Tom you mention love including sadness and I concur. It is your thought that fits in with my two people taking care of each other so that both would both be cared for (have needs met) as a relationship model. This thought of mine includes sadness in that in this relationship knowing having needs to be met by the other that would be a hardship on them or would make one sad, so they wouldn't have inflated needs, this going both ways.

Isn't not having any expectations an expectation in itself?

Love
Bette

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 Post subject: Re: Relationships
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:36 am 
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To want to find your "true love" is natural enough -- indeed, it is programmed in your genetics - but this is not something you make happen, it is something you let happen.
Quote:
Though love at first sight makes a good movie theme and no doubt occasionally works out very well in "real life", it is not the most likely way to end up with a wonderful long term relationship.

Please correct me on this if I'm wrong. Think it was Tom, or Ted stating that genetics is our PMR encoded potential. If this is correct then can we see that in others? The desire for physical beauty may be shallow all by itself, but could physical attraction be useful as one of many tools? As a personal example many people think Pamela Anderson is attractive/hot. However I'm personally not attracted to her, and it makes me wonder if there's more to physical attraction then simply "sex appeal". She may have great potential for others, and so they are attracted to that potential. Hope this makes sense.


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